4 More F22P coming up made in Pakistan

[khurasaan1]

At US$65 million, funded through US FMS, it IS virtually giving them away. Don't open your mouth (again) unless you know what you're talking about.

Im very happy..that u said to me like this ...will u want 65 million dollarz and these boats as exchange for ure brotherz sisters and ure childrenz life(ure whole family)? if yes ...then i will accept what u told me above....
and another thing if u didnt give me the sincere answer...then inshallah u will get the same situation by the US very soon.

 

[khurasaan1]

Why on earth would you need to waste money developing a system of which there are plenty available commercially?

Oh! yes this is wastage of money....Okay u might be right...
man why wont u want Pak to be self sufficient in its defences..?
when we make all defence systems we will give ure country those systems cheaper than u make them...why u worry ?
we gonna waste our money to save urz money...

 

[razgriz19]

Oh! yes this is wastage of money....Okay u might be right...
man why wont u want Pak to be self sufficient in its defences..?
when we make all defence systems we will give ure country those systems cheaper than u make them...why u worry ?
we gonna waste our money to save urz money...

right now its better to buy off the shelf instead of to make one!
u kno how much it cost to develop a system!? and then the system's cost itself!
we dont have that much money right now...SO first we need to build up our economy so we can finance the developing cost!

 

[Penguin]

Im very happy..that u said to me like this ...will u want 65 million dollarz and these boats as exchange for ure brotherz sisters and ure childrenz life(ure whole family)? if yes ...then i will accept what u told me above....
and another thing if u didnt give me the sincere answer...then inshallah u will get the same situation by the US very soon.

In direct reference to your remark "US would have given Pak 8 Mchenry Class Frigates without charging even a penny": That $65million transfer cost is funded through FMS i.e. military aid i.e. not paid by Pakistan.

 

[Penguin]

Oh! yes this is wastage of money....Okay u might be right...
man why wont u want Pak to be self sufficient in its defences..?
when we make all defence systems we will give ure country those systems cheaper than u make them...why u worry ?
we gonna waste our money to save urz money...

Building a defence industry is expensive and not necessarily productive. To fullfill your defence needs, it may well be extremely cost-ineffective to develop systems domestically.

I very much doubt that the Netherlands would buy its future defence equipment from Pakistan.

 

[razgriz19]

Building a defence industry is expensive and not necessarily productive. To fullfill your defence needs, it may well be extremely cost-ineffective to develop systems domestically.

I very much doubt that the Netherlands would buy its future defence equipment from Pakistan.

well as far as i know netherland has pretty big economy so they can buy wat eva they want!
and btw does netherland have ever bought anything from pak?

 

[Arsalan]

Bro, whatever you say....a frigate cannot do the work of a destroyer....

Frigate are comparatively faster than a destroyer and if you are to fight an 'agile' war, frigates are your first priority....and hence, its one of the main reason destroyers are deployed to protect military convoys, strategic fleets or carrier groups....you can check the link:-

Destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Though, i believe PN needs 1 or 2 new destroyers....shall be a good boost to the navy even though you dont have an AC to protect, PN can use it to escort military convoys on sea or attack on distant targets at times of war....moreover, some can even carry nuclear missiles....


Cheers!!!

well its not speed that makes a vessel a destroyer or frigate, infact it is not the displacement as well.
the main thing is the role or capability of vessel that gives it the tag of either a frigate or a destroyer.

destroyer are conventially all-rounders of the sea. they are good in all three typese of sea warefare it anti-ship, anti-submarine and anti-air warefare. the installation of all three abilities usually makes the destroyers bigger and heavier.

as for frigate, they can match up with destroyer in any one ot the three fields ad the rest of two will be avarage and it may have to depend on external support to excel in that type of battle. i mean to say taht frigate can either be AShW Frigats, anti-air frigates or ASW frigates. this do not means that a ASW frigate can do nothing against ships but it wont be as goods as a comparable class destroyer in engagin ships whereas it will compete with destroyer in anti-submarine roles. that is for ASW frigats. same holds true for AShW and AA frigates.

the F22p friagate is typpically an ASW friagate. with on board sensore to detect under water enemies, accompanied by an ASW Helicopter, Z-9C it suites good into this role. it is also good in AShW role with the C-802 on board. as for the anit-air or air defence role it lacks to some extent. no if we want to imporve the anti-air section and then look to make it VLS capabel for cruise missiles it will enter the league of destroyer.

i hope you are not lost in the story and i have made my point clear!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

i hope this will add to your knowledge

FRIGATES
In modern military terminology, a frigate is a warship intended to protect other warships and merchant ships as anti-submarine warfare (ASW) combatants for amphibious expeditionary forces, underway replenishment groups, and merchant convoys. Frigates fulfill a Protection of Shipping (POS) mission as Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) combatants for amphibious expeditionary forces, underway replenishment groups and merchant convoys.

The U.S. Navy adopted the classification "frigate" (FF) for ships used for open-ocean escort and patrol. When they were developed during World War II, frigates were classified as destroyer escorts (DEs). Frigates resemble destroyers in appearance, but they are slower, have only a single screw, and carry less armament. FFs have grown in size from about 1,500 tons displacement to over 4,000 tons, as in the Knox class (FF-1052). Their armament varies from class to class.

The guided missile frigates (FFGs) bring an anti-air warfare (AAW) capability to the frigate mission, but they have some limitations. Designed as cost effective surface combatants, they lack the multi-mission capability necessary for modern surface combatants faced with multiple, high technology threats. They also offer limited capacity for growth.

DESTROYER
Destroyers (DDs) and guided-missile destroyers (DDGs) are multi-purpose ships that are useful in almost any kind of naval operation. They are fast ships with a variety of armament, but little or no armor. For protection, they depend on their speed and mobility. Their displacement varies from about 4,500 tons to 7,800 tons. The principal mission of destroyers is to operate offensively and defensively against submarines and surface ships and to take defensive action against air attacks. They also provide gunfire support for amphibious assaults and perform patrol, search, and rescue missions.

 

[Arsalan]

quoting Wild-peace from another relavent thready:

The surface fleet consists of many different types of ships, each contributing in their own unique ways to the success of the Navy as a whole. The abbreviation for each subtype of ship within each main type is written below.

• Cruisers (CG&CGN) protect the fleet from airborne threats by using their advanced AEGIS radars and anti-air missile systems, and also have the capability of striking targets ashore with their deck guns and long-range Tomahawk cruise missiles.In military terminology, a cruiser is a large warship capable of engaging multiple targets simultaneously. Modern United States Navy guided missile cruisers (CG and CGN hull classification symbols) perform primarily in a Battle Force role. These ships are multi-mission -- anti-aircraft (AAW), anti-submarine (ASW), and anti-surface (ASUW) surface combatants capable of supporting carrier battle groups, amphibious forces, or of operating independently and as flagships of surface action groups.


• Destroyers (DD/DDG) - protect the fleet from surface and submarine threats; many also have AEGIS, .These fast warships provide multi-mission offensive and defensive capabilities, and can operate independently or as part of carrier battle groups, surface action groups, amphibious ready groups, and underway replenishment groups.Guided missile destroyers are multi-mission [Anti-Air Warfare (AAW), Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW), and Anti-Surface Warfare (ASUW)] surface combatants. The destroyer's armament has greatly expanded the role of the ship in strike warfare utilizing the MK-41 Vertical Launch System (VLS).

• Frigates (FFG) - small, tough convoy escort ships that provide anti-air and anti-submarine protection. Frigates fulfill a Protection of Shipping (POS) mission as Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) combatants for amphibious expeditionary forces, underway replenishment groups and merchant convoys.
The guided missile frigates (FFG) bring an anti-air warfare (AAW) capability to the frigate mission, but they have some limitations. Designed as cost efficient surface combatants, they lack the multi-mission capability necessary for modern surface combatants faced with multiple, high-technology threats. They also offer limited capacity for growth. Despite this, the FFG 7 class is a robust platform, capable of withstanding considerable damage. This "toughness" was aptly demonstrated when USS Samuel B. Roberts struck a mine and USS Stark was hit by two Exocet cruise missiles. In both cases the ships survived, were repaired and returned to the fleet

• Aircraft Carriers (CV/CVN) -Aircraft carriers provide a wide range of possible response for the National Command Authority.Home to over seventy aircraft, ranging from F35,F22 raptors, F/A-18 strike fighters and F-14 interceptors, to S-3B sub-hunters, EA-6B radar-jammers, and E-2C early-warning/command and control aircraft.
The Carrier Mission is:
- To provide a credible, sustainable, independent forward presence and conventional deterrence in peacetime,

- To operate as the cornerstone of joint/allied maritime expeditionary forces in times of crisis, and

- To operate and support aircraft attacks on enemies, protect friendly forces and engage in sustained independent operations in war.
The Nimitz-class carriers, nine operational and one under construction, are the largest warships in the world


• Amphibious Ships (LHA/LHD/LPD/LSD)
- carry up to 2,000 Marines, and their equipment, vehicles, and supplies. The Amphibious Assault subtype, or LHA's and LHD's, double as small aircraft carriers that are home to various kinds of helicopters and the Harrier vertical take-off and landing jet fighter. The LHA's, LHD's, and LSD's all carry modern, high-speed Landing Craft, Air-Cushion (LCAC) to ferry Marines and their gear ashore.

• Minesweepers (MCM/MHC/MCS) - detect and clear naval mines from areas in which other ships soon will be operating.

• Patrol Craft (PC) - small, speedy ships that patrol coastlines as well as insert and support SEAL special operations forces ashore.

• AuxiliarShips (AE/AOy /AOE/AS/ARS) - keep the fleet supplied with fuel, ammunition, food, and other crucial stores needed on long-term forward deployments.

regards!

 

[oct605032048]

anti-air frigate?

 

[Penguin]

well as far as i know netherland has pretty big economy so they can buy wat eva they want!
and btw does netherland have ever bought anything from pak?

The Netherlands has the oldest standing army in Europe. The Dutch Ministry of Defence employs almost 68,000 personnel, including over 20,000 civilian and over 50,000 military personnel. The Netherlands' military is currently a fully professional military. Conscription in the Netherlands was suspended in the year 1996. All military branches and specialties, except for the submarine service and the Marine Corps, are open to female recruits. Unlike many military organizations, Dutch military members are allowed to form and join unions.

The budget for the military in 2007 was €7.7 billion. Several political parties have suggested raising the military expenditure so that it is closer to the NATO standard for military expenditures, which is 2.0% of the GDP. For 2008 there was a budget increase of around €500 million, bringing the budget in 2008 to €8.2 billion. With the agreement to stay in Afghanistan until 2010, another €850 million would be added to the budget over the next years, to compete with the International Security Assistance Force mission in Afghanistan. The budget for 2009 was €8.5 billion.

NETHERLANDS
Active personnel 61,130
Budget €8.525.000.000 = US $11.2 billion (2009)
Percent of GDP 1.65% (2009)

BY COMPARISON: PAKISTAN
Active personnel 619,000
Budget $7.8 billion
Percent of GDP 4.5 (2006 estimate)

www defence talk com/dutch-defense-spending-declines-22150/

Military personnel declines 11000 in 10 years, civilian personnel declined 20%. Navy is down to 4 large frigates / destroyers, 2 frigates, 4 large patrol ships, 4 SSK having sold 6 M frigates (2 to Belgium, 2 to Chile, 2 to Portugal) and all of its S- and L- frigates (L frigates to Chile, S frigates to Greece mostly). But we doubled the number of LPDs from 1 to 2 ;-)

 

[bd_4_ever]

well its not speed that makes a vessel a destroyer or frigate, infact it is not the displacement as well.
the main thing is the role or capability of vessel that gives it the tag of either a frigate or a destroyer.

Alright....i will buy that....thanks for the clarification....!! But yes, what i mentioned was another aspect to identify between the two ships....

destroyer are conventially all-rounders of the sea. they are good in all three typese of sea warefare it anti-ship, anti-submarine and anti-air warefare. the installation of all three abilities usually makes the destroyers bigger and heavier.

Yes....and having said so, dont you think it will be more prone to ships that are much quicker and caries long-range anti-ship missiles?? Many might try to follow the 'hit and run' tactics rather than engaging face to face over a distance with a more capable destroyer....

as for frigate, they can match up with destroyer in any one ot the three fields ad the rest of two will be avarage and it may have to depend on external support to excel in that type of battle. i mean to say taht frigate can either be AShW Frigats, anti-air frigates or ASW frigates. this do not means that a ASW frigate can do nothing against ships but it wont be as goods as a comparable class destroyer in engagin ships whereas it will compete with destroyer in anti-submarine roles. that is for ASW frigats. same holds true for AShW and AA frigates.

If i sum this up, it means destroyers can do the work of allmost three frigates....then why not negotiate for 1-2 of it in the upcoming time....??

the F22p friagate is typpically an ASW friagate. with on board sensore to detect under water enemies, accompanied by an ASW Helicopter, Z-9C it suites good into this role. it is also good in AShW role with the C-802 on board. as for the anit-air or air defence role it lacks to some extent. no if we want to imporve the anti-air section and then look to make it VLS capabel for cruise missiles it will enter the league of destroyer.

The main to threat comes from India, given your geographic location, that has a quite capable naval air wing with ACs and 1 more is on-line i guess....as dealing with subs is equally important and hence the F-22p, then frankly speaking, what are PN's measures to match India's naval air wing or lets say, its air force....??

For my 2 cent, I would say raising just just a ASW helos squadron and the frigates you procure could then be 'specialized' with anti-aircraft capability....hence matching the two threats to a good extent....

i hope you are not lost in the story and i have made my point clear!

Off course not....its always good to learn more....

And thanks for your lower posts....they were equally informative....


Cheers!!!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Alright....i will buy that....thanks for the clarification....!! But yes, what i mentioned was another aspect to identify between the two ships....



Yes....and having said so, dont you think it will be more prone to ships that are much quicker and caries long-range anti-ship missiles?? Many might try to follow the 'hit and run' tactics rather than engaging face to face over a distance with a more capable destroyer....




If i sum this up, it means destroyers can do the work of allmost three frigates....then why not negotiate for 1-2 of it in the upcoming time....??




The main to threat comes from India, given your geographic location, that has a quite capable naval air wing with ACs and 1 more is on-line i guess....as dealing with subs is equally important and hence the F-22p, then frankly speaking, what are PN's measures to match India's naval air wing or lets say, its air force....??

For my 2 cent, I would say raising just just a ASW helos squadron and the frigates you procure could then be 'specialized' with anti-aircraft capability....hence matching the two threats to a good extent....



Off course not....its always good to learn more....

And thanks for your lower posts....they were equally informative....


Cheers!!!

No aircraft carrier for 2 years and no planes or pilots who know how to land planes on carrier

Their existing carrier is peace of garbage with 1-2 planes its like a big fishing boat

 

[bd_4_ever]

No aircraft carrier for 2 years and no planes or pilots who know how to land planes on carrier

Their existing carrier is peace of garbage with 1-2 planes its like a big fishing boat

Ok....lets forget about their AC....

Then, what are your plans for their Air Force....??


Cheers!!!

 

[Arsalan]

anti-air frigate?

with primary role to protect the fleet from air threats..
the one thatexcel in air warefare or defense against air-warfare. the F22p we are talking about is not so good in air defense.

regards!