2nd pilot

[F86 Saber]

Thank you for your kind words. My credibility is as good as any other old chap here. And our information is as good as our sources.

Speaking of sources, if you notice, the information I provided dates back to April/May 2019. We were barely few weeks into the fall out of the skirmish. Which means, the remnants of the fog of war were still there. This does include and apply to active duty personnel, let's say, a guy sitting in Sargodha's ADA hut may or may not have accurate information. The best he can do is to get in touch with someone from his course who is perhaps in MI or AI (Air Intelligence) and so on to get information pertaining to the 2nd pilot. My best source, for all intents and purposes, would be this guy in Sargodha's ADA hut. At that time, I and everyone else on this forum were hungry for information. I merely tried to relay the information I got from multiple sources. And to tell you the truth, multiple sources did indicate there was someone at CMH.

Now, this information may be incorrect, this could have originated from the same source that my chain of sources used. In short, I'm guilty of not relaying the bare facts to this forum. However, to my understanding, this forum operates on the principle of speculation and synergizing OSINT, where facts merely hold together the jigsaw picture that too after alot of torture to the data.

18 months later, if someone asked me about 2nd pilot. I'd probably say he is dead along with his WSO. Until or unless we get a shred of more evidence.

So while your source was quite far from the action, my source is one of the Commanding Officers of Pak Army under whose AOR this section of land, where the skirmish happened, falls and i can tell you with utmost certainty that there was no 2nd or third pilot. My friend in PAF also heard the rumor of an Israeli pilot being caught so it is possible this rumor originated and circulated in PAF.

 

[PanzerKiel]

So while your source was quite far from the action, my source is one of the Commanding Officers of Pak Army under whose AOR this section of land, where the skirmish happened, falls and i can tell you with utmost certainty that there was no 2nd or third pilot. My friend in PAF also heard the rumor of an Israeli pilot being caught so it is possible this rumor originated and circulated in PAF.

Actually the fog of war is directly proportional to the distance from the site of actual engagement. The CO on the ground was therefore very much clear. However, DG ISPR and others were affected by this fog which is quiet natural in today environment where info has to be relayed in real time.

 

[truthfollower]

PAF releasing all the facts has very low chance of happening

yes i was asking about PAF side of story. and what the pilot meant when he said in the documentary on swift retort "two su 30s in the area and grinding one plus one" what he meant by grinding one plus one is it some special maneuver?

 

[Desi_Guy]

First of all this israeli pilot crap was a lie.. I dont know why our news outlets resort to such rhetoric and cheap tactics to sell news..
DG ISPR was ambiguous due to fog of war when he said we have two pilots initially; the two parachutes gave the impression there were two pilots so he said we have 2 however the other parachute was of the mig 21 seat which came out separately the real controversy began when he claimed later in an interview (10 days later) that there were two pilots.one is dead while we have the other one. Notice him not being explicit to who has the body.Implies they had Intel from their assets in IIOK who knew the su30 pilot died upon landing. The asset can be a mole inside indian forces or a local. Something of that sort cant be validated by dg ispr in public as pictures or videos may compromise the source... the guy in cmh as per my knowledge was abhinandon and wrongly confused with second pilot.

Lol that is not how things work in a war like situation. The ground staff team upon arrival at the location confirms the news to their supervisor with proof (mobile photo), who in turn notifies his commander and the chain may be bypassed here to the highest military authorities or continued.
Dg Ispr live show nahi dekh rhe they. Ye hai Pakistan ke expertise

 

[PanzerKiel]

yes i was asking about PAF side of story. and what the pilot meant when he said in the documentary on swift retort "two su 30s in the area and grinding one plus one" what he meant by grinding one plus one is it some special maneuver?

Grind is a BVR tactic.
Consider it like a race course like pattern in which one jet faces the threat and the other faces away from threat

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Attach files

Lol that is not how things work in a war like situation. The ground staff team upon arrival at the location confirms the news to their supervisor with proof (mobile photo), who in turn notifies his commander and the chain may be bypassed here to the highest military authorities or continued.
Dg Ispr live show nahi dekh rhe they. Ye hai Pakistan ke expertise

DG ISPR's words "woh hamray paas hai" can mean multiple things.. that he can be on the run in our area or he was dead or he is in our custody.. It was a triple or quadruple entendre done on purpose..in a volatile environment
but you wont get it..it has got nothing to do with expertise..

 

[Talon]

yes i was asking about PAF side of story. and what the pilot meant when he said in the documentary on swift retort "two su 30s in the area and grinding one plus one" what he meant by grinding one plus one is it some special maneuver?

It means both are moving in opposite direction,say East and West

 

[Reichmarshal]

Actually the fog of war is directly proportional to the distance from the site of actual engagement. The CO on the ground was therefore very much clear. However, DG ISPR and others were affected by this fog which is quiet natural in today environment where info has to be relayed in real time.

The CO at the time at div. HQ.
Their was a second chute but that of the seat. The confusion was the result of personal of two diff units on the ground at the same time.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Initially they claimed 2 Indian jets downed and 3 Indian pilots on Pak soil.

Makes perfect sense.
One is abhinandan and the other two were downed SU 30 pilots.

 

[Jackdaws]

Makes perfect sense.
One is abhinandan and the other two were downed SU 30 pilots.

And where are they now?

 

[TheTallGuy]

Interesting going back in memmory lane - so many posts with high degree of conviction and nothing came out of it...

@tallguy: you still hold on to this postulation...?

You are taking the post out of context. i was commenting on the speculation going around at that time and nothing will come out of it.

 

[Blueskiez 2001]

You are taking the post out of context. i was commenting on the speculation going around at that time and nothing will come out of it.

Ok - but you still have to prove your multiple fighter down theory (is it 8 planes down...???)

 

[Maarkhoor]

Actually the fog of war is directly proportional to the distance from the site of actual engagement. The CO on the ground was therefore very much clear. However, DG ISPR and others were affected by this fog which is quiet natural in today environment where info has to be relayed in real time.

Sir there was second pilot ejected from SU-30...one fall right above our post and the other one fall in Indian side...the one who fall over post was a Sikh pilot unfortunately he died because of hard landing at CMH.....

His body was handed over to India via red cross probably Govt don't want escalation in situation so neither Pakistan nor Indian admitted it.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Sir there was second pilot ejected from SU-30...one fall right above our post and the other one fall in Indian side...the one who fall over post was a Sikh pilot unfortunately he died because of hard landing at CMH.....

His body was handed over to India via red cross probably Govt don't want escalation in situation so neither Pakistan nor Indian admitted it.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Sir there was second pilot ejected from SU-30...one fall right above our post and the other one fall in Indian side...the one who fall over post was a Sikh pilot unfortunately he died because of hard landing at CMH.....

His body was handed over to India via red cross probably Govt don't want escalation in situation so neither Pakistan nor Indian admitted it.

..... Please don't tempt me...