2nd Pak FA prototype maiden flight pics

[SpArK]

Second Russian PAK FA Prototype Makes First Flight


That once again confirms that we see only early prototypes for flight tests and that at least the nose radar will be integrated only in later prototypes.

Nothing on the much criticized air intake yet????/

 

[GORKHALI]

 

[sancho]

Nothing on the much criticized air intake yet????/

Of course not, because the first prototypes just test the basic aerodynamic performance, while more and more internal parts will be added. I expect the new rumored radar blockers, or the new AL 41 only in a much later stage, by the fact that Russia wants to induct the early Pak Fas with the S117 engine.
But as I said, the whole point is just one to have something to say, but the fact is, we still don't know what exactly the Russian plans are. I recently read that Japan is also developing an engine, with integrated radar blocker for their stealth fighter developments. Different developments, have different solutions and so far we can speculate only, or wait for the 3rd and 4th prototypes to arrive, till we have more infos. I would even say that an official design of FGFA, could give us a good hint what they plan in this regard. We know that IAF and the Indian side in general wants a higher focus on stealth, or low RCS as we see at LCA, so there should be pressure on the Russian side in this field for sure.

 

[ganimi kawa]

Of course not, because the first prototypes just test the basic aerodynamic performance, while more and more internal parts will be added. I expect the new rumored radar blockers, or the new AL 41 only in a much later stage, by the fact that Russia wants to induct the early Pak Fas with the S117 engine.
But as I said, the whole point is just one to have something to say, but the fact is, we still don't know what exactly the Russian plans are. I recently read that Japan is also developing an engine, with integrated radar blocker for their stealth fighter developments. Different developments, have different solutions and so far we can speculate only, or wait for the 3rd and 4th prototypes to arrive, till we have more infos. I would even say that an official design of FGFA, could give us a good hint what they plan in this regard. We know that IAF and the Indian side in general wants a higher focus on stealth, or low RCS as we see at LCA, so there should be pressure on the Russian side in this field for sure.

On the russian forums,the majority seems to think that they have decided to use radar blocker for the intakes and S shaped ducts are pretty much ruled out. This is supposed to remain in place even with the AL 41.


About S117, we are really in no position to predict anything.

However, the intakes will surely receive some attention while designing the FGFA and there is a definite probability of a different intake on FGFA.

 

[sancho]

On the russian forums,the majority seems to think that they have decided to use radar blocker for the intakes and S shaped ducts are pretty much ruled out.

I don't believe it either, but it's not a straight line from the air intakt to the engine compressor, there already some shapings to direct the airflow in an S shape, with the side effect, that not the complete compressor can be seen:

The engine position is also not in a straight line, like it was at older Flanker versions, so the actual part of the compressor, that needs to be covered by a radar blocker could be way smaller than many believes now.
However, the main part of stealth design is the airframe and there we see the same shapings on T50, that we see on US stealth fighters, or on J20:

 

[GLOBAL HAWK]

Hmmm Interesting indeed

Russian's have taken a diff design wrt LO , i'm eager to see how radar blockers turnout

I was expecting the wedge underneath the fighter and b/w engine bays to be rectified, Not a necessarily clean streamlined belly like F22.
something similar to F 35

Streamlining the belly may also free up some space for internal weapon storage and also additional fuel
Is this true??
i have read somewhere in here that bcoz of this inadequacy(weapons bay taking more space) fuel storage capacity on pakfa is less than expected (I have not verified these claims)

As far as the design goes, I like T50 on par with F22, But YF22 as raw product appeals to me more than T50(what we see Now)
a bit more work in streamlining and aesthetics will make make T50 more lethal

 

[sancho]

I was expecting the wedge underneath the fighter and b/w engine bays to be rectified, Not a necessarily clean streamlined belly like F22.
something similar to F 35

Streamlining the belly may also free up some space for internal weapon storage and also additional fuel
Is this true??

The T50 won't have a streamlined belly, because it uses this design to create more lift, similar to older Russian fighter designs, like the Mig 29, or Flanker series did. The rear part (black colored) should be different later, when the final engines will be integrated and could be less round shapings. With the size of the T50, especially of the wings, I wouldn't expect a shortage of internal fuel and the front weapon bays are should be deeper than the rear one. That means the front could house bigger A2G weapons, while the rear one will carry mainly AAMs

 

[ganimi kawa]

I don't believe it either, but it's not a straight line from the air intakt to the engine compressor, there already some shapings to direct the airflow in an S shape, with the side effect, that not the complete compressor can be seen:

The engine position is also not in a straight line, like it was at older Flanker versions, so the actual part of the compressor, that needs to be covered by a radar blocker could be way smaller than many believes now.
However, the main part of stealth design is the airframe and there we see the same shapings on T50, that we see on US stealth fighters, or on J20:

Yes, the intakes do hide the blades to a good extent, though not enough for a fifth gen stealth fighter. Though, the russians have good experience with radar blockers and I think they will do a pretty good job.


IIRC, the said blocker is supposed to make it's appearance on 3rd prototype, isn't it?


Regarding the shape of intake, I think the diamond shaped intake of T-50 is right up there in the stealth alley with F22 et al, it is surely a massive step up from the bevelled intake of the Su 27 airframe.

Changing the intakes to diamond shape for stealth was one of the major changes in converting the hornet to super hornet making it more stealthy.

 

[GLOBAL HAWK]

The T50 won't have a streamlined belly, because it uses this design to create more lift, similar to older Russian fighter designs, like the Mig 29, or Flanker series did. The rear part (black colored) should be different later, when the final engines will be integrated and could be less round shapings. With the size of the T50, especially of the wings, I wouldn't expect a shortage of internal fuel and the front weapon bays are should be deeper than the rear one. That means the front could house bigger A2G weapons, while the rear one will carry mainly AAMs

Hmm
I didn't knew that, May be coz T50 owes its heritage to Su 27 series airframe
Does any have a PSed T50 in military matte black or grey, I think it will look stunning

 

[sancho]

IIRC, the said blocker is supposed to make it's appearance on 3rd prototype, isn't it?

Don't know, by the fact that it's one of the biggest secrets, I would expect it very late only.

Changing the intakes to diamond shape for stealth was one of the major changes in converting the hornet to super hornet making it more stealthy.

That has less to do with reducing the RCS, but with increasing the size because of the higher airflow needed for the new engines. The shaping was just a side note and the addition of more RAM materials did way more in this field. Keep in mind that the SH is way bigger than the Hornet and still should have a lower RCS, which is not possible just by shaping the air intakes.
What the T50 offers in terms of RAM materials, or new solutions is still unknown yet and it will be interesting to see how it gets closer and closer to the final design.

 

[ganimi kawa]

1.That has less to do with reducing the RCS, but with increasing the size because of the higher airflow needed for the new engines. The shaping was just a side note and the addition of more RAM materials did way more in this field.

2. Keep in mind that the SH is way bigger than the Hornet and still should have a lower RCS, which is not possible just by shaping the air intakes.

3.What the T50 offers in terms of RAM materials, or new solutions is still unknown yet and it will be interesting to see how it gets closer and closer to the final design.

1. I do not think airflow increase was that big a problem. In case of semicircular intakes the airflow can be easily increased by changing the radius slightly. Remember the minuscule change in the inlet size of LCA mk despite the higher airflow requirement for the GE 414. A 10% increase in the inlet area can be achieved by less than 5% increase in the radius.


2. I'm well aware of RAMs and the role they play in making a plane stealthy. However, the geometry is still a major factor in the RCS and on that front the diamond shaped intakes are much better than the semicircular ones.

It is easy to shape the inlet lips (including sharpness) by sweeping to align with major surfaces.

3. Yup! Considering the huge changes that took place in transition from yf22 to f22, it would indeed be interesting to see how the T 50 evolves into it's final config.

 

[tallboy123]

lets wait for 4th prototype....

 

[ViXuyen]

I do not think Russia is bluffing when they said they would make the T-50 to be on par with the F-22 in term of VLO because the major customer for the T-50 will be India. If the T-50 is not a VLO aircraft then India can always opt for the F-35 at anytime.

 

[CardSharp]

I do not think Russia is bluffing when they said they would make the T-50 to be on par with the F-22 in term of VLO because the major customer for the T-50 will be India. If the T-50 is not a VLO aircraft then India can always opt for the F-35 at anytime.

O Really? Do tell.

 

[xMustiiej70]

Accourding to MilitaryPhotos this is fake..
This aircraft is just the first prototype..
there's no such thing as second prototype t-50