24 absurd beliefs Pakistanis have

[VCheng]

It's pathetic, the way we subjugate womenfolk, just fucking pathetic.
exploiting women is bragged about in our part of the world like a fcukin badge of honor or a chip on the shoulder.

No wonder we remain stuck where we are, collectively.

 

[Kabira]

where is Jinnah's ideology now? when Sunnis are pulling out Shias from the bus and shooting them back in the head?

Extremists exist everywhere. But innocents muslims were killed by normal hindu/sikhs. Later on 1984 sikhs will get treated same way by hindus, divine justice.

 

[ranjeet]

And what did I say that you managed to take away that message from my post? I didn't deny those things in the article. I think the article is spot on. However, my interactions with Indians on PDF has made my realise that majority of them are just as reactionary, bigoted and nationalistic as the Pakistani they bash. That was what I was pointing out in my original comment. Indians have nothing to cheer here when it comes to these points. It's a South Asian thing.

I guess most of the people around here know me as an Indian troll, but I do feel and share pain of genuine people who open up at times. That's why I felt compelled to reply you back because you are one of the sane voice out here on PDF.

 

[A.Rafay]

Every point mentioned is true! All Pakistanis whether educated or illiterate believe in same norms.

 

[ranjeet]

No wonder we remain stuck where we are, collectively.

I guess we are cursed to provide stepping stone for the western world to progress. had we not been so cockeyed we had the potential to progress.

Extremists exist everywhere. But innocents muslims were killed by normal hindu/sikhs. Later on 1984 sikhs will get treated same way by hindus, divine justice.

yes Hindus/Sikhs were evil, they were copy of Shaitain in living flesh. Does that make you happy?

 

[Nihil]

24 absurd beliefs Pakistanis have
By Syed Ali Abbas Zaidi

......

Norms are beliefs about how members of a group should behave in a particular context. They are informal and often ‘invisible’ understandings and rules that govern a group’s behaviour towards particular religious, social, cultural, political and socio-economic triggers.

Norms generally define what is acceptable in a society or group and are the building blocks for appropriate and inappropriate values, beliefs, attitudes, behaviours, ideologies and narratives.

These rules are generally implicit.

In addition to what is considered normative in societal, political or cultural context, there are smaller groups within a society which endorse a particular norm. On one hand, norms define how to move, what to wear, how to speak, what to discuss, what not to challenge and the likes, while on the other, they shape narratives that construct the social fabric and religio-political discourses. Quite often, these norms are reflected in laws but not always. I will try to short-list some bizarre norms and beliefs that are prevalent in our society today:

1. Attributing failures to fate, foreign hands or conspiracy

“Jo karwaya, Amreeka ne karwaya”

(Whatever happened, happened because America made it happen)

“Foreign hands were involved”

“Jewish conspiracy!”

Or simply

“It was fate.”.

2. God will take care of this, Insha’Allah!

God will help, yes, but only if you are willing to help yourself as well. Apathy never goes rewarded anyway. This idea has become a convenient scapegoat for our leaders and people alike when one’s incapability to strive against an unwanted situation is tested.

3. The West versus Islam

Many modern extremist narratives are built from the idea that there is a constant war between the West and the forces of Islam. At a societal level, the general understanding is that westerners do not have ethical or moral values, and are baysharam (shameless) and bayghairat (without any integrity).

4. Let’s ask the religious scholar instead

Different matters related to the broad spectrum of human life, sciences and other knowledge-based fields are taken to mullahs or clerics, as if they have all the knowledge in the world and are the most potent problem solvers. They are human too; stop putting them on a pedestal.

5. Civilians are less patriotic

An idea that exists in a few military circles, and in some shades penetrates into mainstream society as well, is that men in uniform are more patriotic than civilians.

Who introduced this scale to determine ones patriotism anyway? This is absurd. The establishment driven narrative that politicians are all dirty gets endorsement from the same thought-process. I am no less patriotic than the men in green.

6. Homosexuality does not exist

The debate around homosexuality is virtually absent in Pakistan simply because, even though everyone knows it exists, it is silently shoved under the carpet. Saying it does not exist won’t change reality.

7. Shaadi karwadoo – sab maslay hal hojayein gey!

(Get them married – all their problems will get solved)

8. Secularism means Godlessness

This common notion in our society highlights that secularism means Godlessness. Those propagating these beliefs, for obvious political reasons, need rigorous lessons in political science.

9. It’s always the woman’s fault

Whether she is seen smiling on the streets or just got out of a relationship that did not end well, it is always the girl’s fault.

“Why is she wearing such clothes? Is she asking for it?”

“Why did she smile? That must mean a yes!”

Should a woman always wear an angry look on her face while walking on the streets? Is she not virtuous otherwise?

10. No power on earth can undo Pakistan

Well, this narrative should have drowned in the Bay of Bengal in 1971 but it still manages to stir hyper (blind) nationalists to the core.

11. Sharing food with non-Muslims

This is one of the most shameful norms I have noticed. Many families do not share food or crockery with non-Muslim domestic staff. Lots of research needs to be done about how it became a norm even though there seem to be no Islamic rulings preventing a Muslim from sharing food or utensils with non-Muslims that I have come across.

13. A veil is a symbol of modesty

To some, wearing a veil automatically makes a person more modest and pious than others. It is like a sign-board, shouting out to society that those who are veiled are modest and those who aren’t are not.

15. Modernism is taking off ones clothes

In the same way, being ‘modern’ is also gauged on an illogical scale.

“Baray modern ho gai ho!”

(You’ve become so modern!)

16. Liberalism means partying

Political liberalism is equated with life-style liberalism, which is not the case. The ‘liberal-secular’ is a metaphor used by right wing parties and writers with a negative connotation, to mark someone as having no values. It is part of the larger discourse that utilises these norms in the society and sees liberalism as a threat.

17. You love someone? Moun kala karwa diya

(You have disgraced the family)

18. It’s okay to bribe, sometimes…

Many of us have come across religious, pious people giving the explanation that,

“It’s okay to bribe someone, if it gets the work done.”

Hypocrisy knows no bounds when religious people indulge in an evil practice which they themselves preach against in public gatherings.

19. Your elders are always right!

Common sense would suggest that they might be right sometimes, maybe even most of the times, but not always. There are many things and new trends which they do not know about. How can they be in any position to give a verdict on such novelties, let alone be right?

20. Pakistan Ka Matlab Kya? La Ilaha Illallah

Whether this slogan was denounced by the founder of Pakistan or not is a different debate, but it darkens the white portion of our flag. We need to be more sensitive to the non-Muslim minority of Pakistan.

And on a logical basis, intellect also begs to inquire how a country’s name can mean ‘there is no God but Allah’.

21. Extremism is because of drones

Narratives around extremism have greatly been influenced by right-leaning forces, equating extremism with drones, Extremism has dented the basic social fabric of our society, leaving behind human and financial losses. We vehemently need to challenge such narratives that seek patronage from the society.

22. Internet equates to ****

As the Internet expands into rural areas and lower-middle classes, this norm is usually used by elders to prevent youngsters from using the Internet. Yes, the Internet does give access to ****, but that is not all that it does. It is a medium to be used as the user deems fit. Many schools and colleges ban internet usage for students on the same pretext, preventing them from accessing an endless source of knowledge.

23. Arts? A futile pursuit

Artistes are change-makers in any society; they evoke new ideas through different art-forms and enable a society’s progress. The downfall of art as a whole in Pakistan has a lot to do with this norm, injected into individuals by the society from a very early age.

24. We live in sectarian harmony

I grew up in 12 cities of Pakistan and my name instigated the following questions from my class fellows,

“Do you mix blood with rice?” “Do you spit in tea before serving?” And so on and so forth.

I am sure such sectarian hatred exists in all sects, with every sect claiming to possess the absolute truth and the rest are simply kafirs, mushriks (infidels). We live in a very sectarian minded society, from politics to cultural acceptance. Although I realise this is a way to make sure the other sect looks unappealing to the listener, a lot needs to be done to challenge the absurd myths people may make up about sects other than their own.

Once firmly established, a norm becomes a part of operational power structures and hence, becomes difficult to change.

Our society is rife with absurd norms, such as these, that halt intellectual and collective progress. While all groups within Pakistan do not endorse these norms, the conversation to challenge them has to start from us. NOW.
24 absurd beliefs Pakistanis have – The Express Tribune Blog

Well at least 20 of these problems are present in India too.

 

[Levina]

Mam "Aap bhala toh jag bhala" wali khawat suni hai .....

Right!
That I think is called confirmation bias.

 

[13 kumaon]

Indians should be happy there was partition because not only punjabi khatris have made bollywood in to what is today, but sindhi trending castes have also played big role in uplifting shit poor people of mata Bharat. To the point that sindhi trading castes or punjabi trading castes surnames are synonym with rich in Mata Bharat.

The reason lollywood was disaster is because nach ghana was considered kanjarkhana by vast majority of Pakistani population. And only ones who were good at it moved to India.

Apart from the points you made we are also greatful to jinnah so that indian schools may remain safe and India will not become a part of caliphate.

 

[VCheng]

I guess we are cursed to provide stepping stone for the western world to progress. had we not been so cockeyed we had the potential to progress.

All nations have the potential, but whether they chose to achieve it or not is totally up to they themselves.

 

[Pakistani E]

I guess most of the people around here know me as an Indian troll, but I do feel and share pain of genuine people who open up at times. That's why I felt compelled to reply you back because you are one of the sane voice out here on PDF.

Well the things mentioned in the article also apply to a lot of Indians. This is why I was puzzled that some Indians were not applying the points on themselves but scoring childish browny points. So I felt compelled to leave an equally childish remark to see if people will see the childish futility of arguing along national lines while the problems mentioned are the collective bane of us South Asians. As I have said before, I do not take these social problems along a bias narrative but want to see all of South Asia progressing together. I apologise if my original comment caused any offence.

 

[ranjeet]

All nations have the potential, but whether they chose to achieve it or not is totally up to they themselves.

We will take our own good time to realize that. Being a little selfish here, I hope Indian realize a bit early than Pakistan does.

 

[Nihil]

Neutral historians have pointed out how peacefully non-muslims moved out of Pakistan.

That's funny. So our grandparents died, and then suddenly the neutral historians said they didn't? Reality - Partition is a collective stain on the insaaniayat of the subcontinent. Hindus killed Muslims and Muslims killed Hindus. Anyway. this discussion is off-topic.

 

[VCheng]

We will take our own good time to realize that. Being a little selfish here, I hope Indian realize a bit early than Pakistan does.

There is always hope, but nearly two thirds of a century later, the whole area remains stuck in a morass of its own making. Pity.

 

[ranjeet]

Well the things mentioned in the article also apply to a lot of Indians. This is why I was puzzled that some Indians were not applying the points on themselves but scoring childish browny points. So I felt compelled to leave an equally childish remark to see if people will see the childish futility of arguing along national lines while the problems mentioned are the collective bane of us South Asians. As I have said before, I do not take these social problems along a bias narrative but want to see all of South Asia progressing together. I apologise if my original comment caused any offence.

No offence bro, you have always been upfront with problems concerning your motherland. I apologize for putting my point across in more provocative way. admit or not, when we come across a bit off post from sane members from across the border we (at least I do) feel an urge to know what rubbed off the wrong way.

 

[Kabira]

That's funny. So our grandparents died, and then suddenly the neutral historians said they didn't? Reality - Partition is a collective stain on the insaaniayat of the subcontinent. Hindus killed Muslims and Muslims killed Hindus. Anyway. this discussion is off-topic.

Not true, muslims of Pakistan didn't kill. And who are you? I doubt your grandparents were anywhere near Pakistan in 1947.

 

[Nihil]

Point 1: Foreign conspiracy is less in India, but fate equally present, if not more. It is just a lazy attitude of South Asians to shirk their own responsibility.
Point 2: Same in India, especially among older generations.
Point 3: Not that much.
Point 4: Brahmins held that position. But thankfully religious reformation (Vivekanda, Dayananda Saraswati, Rammohun Roy), and anti-casteism drives have killed it off a lot.
Point 5: Absolutely. Even though many generals are as cunning as politicians. Thankfully again, no military coups i Indian history, and it looks unlikely to happen.
Point 6: We are changing in this regard, but very, very slowly. Bollywood has started a conservation. But for a step forward, we seem to take two steps back. Case in point: Supreme court reinstated Article 377 last year. Shameful.
Point 7: Same in India. Corollary: Entrepreneurship is bad. Do a proper job.
Point 8: A dangerous idea started by BJP trolls from 2013. Look at the libtards and sickular insults they hurl at people online.
Point 9-19, 22-24: Equally present in India.
Point 20: We are the descendants of an ancient civilization. People forget that what you did centuries back has no bearing today. Indians obsess over the past, neglecting their present.

Not true, muslims of Pakistan didn't kill. And who are you? I doubt your grandparents were anywhere near Pakistan in 1947.

My grandparents were mostly in east Pakistan, present day Bangladesh. My grandfather's older brother was a barrister in Lahore, who lost his first wife in Partition. He remarried in India again.
As I said, both religions killed each other. Saying that only one did is a gross distortion of history.