22 killed in US missile strike in N Waziristan

[roadrunner]

You've allowed the defeated taliban army to retreat into your nation and attack the men, women, and children of afghanistan from your soil.

Another case of "blame it on Pakistan, syndrome"

Pakistan did not let any Taliban retreat into its nation.

The p!ss poor planning of your invading forces, with no backup plan to secure the border, is what has led to the influx of Arabs and foreigners into the tribal regions of Pakistan.

It is just as much the US's responsibility to patrol the border, as it is Pakistan's.

Those men do so to this day. Every damned day. Anytime you wish to count the bodies of dead afghanis at the hands of men like Nazir, Haqqani, Hekmatyar, Rehman, etc. and compare them to PREDATOR after you've stripped the legit kills there and we'll see.

There's no comparison and the callousness displayed here to that obvious point and the equally CLEAR and OBVIOUS point that it's your nation's intelligence assets that are providing the human intel for PREDATOR is astounding.

What's this? Pakistan is providing the intel for the Predator strikes? Then why not let Pakistani forces, gunships carry out the attacks, instead of a pilotless piece of inaccurate junk?

The Americans are trigger happy, coke snorting, belligerent maniacs behind the controls of machines that can kill people.

The whole world sees it, for example slicing Iraqi farmers in half, for ploughing their own fields and trying to earn a wage.

Pakistani forces would not be so careless towards their own people, and that's why they're the ones who should be carrying out these operations, not drones controlled by maniacs.

You've a real war on your hands and haven't seen anything yet. Nothing. You can fight with all your might, surrender, or stand aside and watch these men intimidate their way to the front steps of your capital.

The Taliban in Pakistan are Pakistani. Your war in Afghanistan has produced them. Before that war, they weren't calling themselves Taliban.

The Taliban in Afghanistan are Afghanis. The ordinary folk are fighting the US there.

 

[roadrunner]

You can't have a war without civilian casulaties, but this is way too much blood shed like roadrunner said you can not risk civilians over a single militant. Plus if US wants to continue these strikes then y not help Pakistan in swat valley or Bajur where the civilians have been evacuated.

Even that is wrong.

You don't kill any innocent person knowingly.

If they're with a target unknowingly, or even in the same vicinity, you just do not fire. That is the way any operation is carried out in any first world country.

Dehumanizing your own Pakistani population is a heinious crime by not only the uS, but the Pakistani leadership, if they are complicit in attacks that kill innocent people, their own innocent people.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

You've allowed the defeated taliban army to retreat into your nation and attack the men, women, and children of afghanistan from your soil.

Those men do so to this day. Every damned day. Anytime you wish to count the bodies of dead afghanis at the hands of men like Nazir, Haqqani, Hekmatyar, Rehman, etc. and compare them to PREDATOR after you've stripped the legit kills there and we'll see.

There's no comparison and the callousness displayed here to that obvious point and the equally CLEAR and OBVIOUS point that it's your nation's intelligence assets that are providing the human intel for PREDATOR is astounding.

You've a real war on your hands and haven't seen anything yet. Nothing. You can fight with all your might, surrender, or stand aside and watch these men intimidate their way to the front steps of your capital.

that's pure bullsh!t, we didn't allow the chance for militants to set up camps on our side of the border, you did. Pakistan warned the US forces in the beginning of the afghan war to clean up near the durand line and then move on to the rest of afghanistan. yet, US forces knowingly avoided that, focused on the rest of afghanistan, and let the militants flow into our side of the border.

You knew all of this, but you prevented the flow of militants in the beginning. To jog your lousy memory, can you remember any instances where the US govt. in 2001 claimed that Pakistan was facilitating militants on its side? NO! It's because you didn't care, you didn't give a damn because you aren't there to wipe out militants, you were only there to occupy and then focus on Iraq! that's why the afghan war is called the "forgottten war", you imbecile.

Pakistan has constantly asked for the durand line to be closed, mined, and fenced. yet, you totally ignore our requests, it's almost as if you want the militants to enter our area. seal the fcuking border like we ask, only then all of your militant problems will decrease, but they won't disappear. You aren't winning hearts and minds, and stop talking as if you have an advantage over these militants, your military tactics are pathetic. When overpowered by a bunch of rag tag, sandal-wearing militants, even at your own base, you call airstrikes! When chasing after militants in civilian areas, you still call for airstrikes killing children instead. But what do you do after that, you blame the fcuking militants for hiding within the civilian population! you guys are just a bunch fcuking hypocrites, you aren't there to fight the militants, or even win the hearts and minds for that matter! these civilians that you kill, go on to become your 'militants', they don't even need help from Pakistan's side. They're getting plenty from your airstrikes, Russia, Iran, and China.

now that "change" has arrived thanks to Obama, after you have partially completed your occupation of Iraq, now you 'remember' the "forgotten war" in afghanistan.

 

[S-2]

Right.

Idiots.

Asked for the Durand Line to be mined, closed? Why didn't this get accomplished with an AGREED Durand line while the taliban were in power? Never a better chance. Didn't happen then. You want borders fenced and mined. Do it yourself on your side.

It's all our fault that the taliban crossed into Pakistan. Feel better?

Still, there they are. Oh well, we'll try harder the next time because it's OUR responsibility to secure your external borders despite you possessing an army for EXACTLY that intended purpose.

Of course, you'll live with our efforts-good or bad-on your behalf.

Idiots.

You let a foreign army invade your nation in 2001-2002. They've camped out on your land.

If nobody in this damn world lifts a finger to help, you can still be assured that these militants intend to dismantle your government.

It was your problem then and it is now. You'll be the ones living with the results of an enemy army within your nation-by invitation.

Good luck.

 

[Al-zakir]

Pakistan: Toll from U.S. strikes reaches 22

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/fb2d7ab1-444b-4261-b514-8761c9d48cb0.rp350x350.jpg


Alleged U.S. spy planes attack militant areas in first attacks of Obama era
Pakistan

updated 9:41 a.m. ET, Sat., Jan. 24, 2009

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - The death toll from two suspected U.S. missile attacks on al-Qaida bases in northwest Pakistan has risen to 22, officials and residents said Saturday. Eight suspected foreign militants were among the dead.

A senior security official said Pakistani authorities were trying to determine the seniority of an Egyptian al-Qaida militant believed to have been killed.

Pakistan: Toll from U.S. strikes reaches 22 - Pakistan - msnbc.com

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Right.

Idiots.

Asked for the Durand Line to be mined, closed? Why didn't this get accomplished with an AGREED Durand line while the taliban were in power? Never a better chance. Didn't happen then. You want borders fenced and mined. Do it yourself on your side.

It's all our fault that the taliban crossed into Pakistan. Feel better?

Still, there they are. Oh well, we'll try harder the next time because it's OUR responsibility to secure your external borders despite you possessing an army for EXACTLY that intended purpose.

Of course, you'll live with our efforts-good or bad-on your behalf.

Idiots.

You let a foreign army invade your nation in 2001-2002. They've camped out on your land.

If nobody in this damn world lifts a finger to help, you can still be assured that these militants intend to dismantle your government.

It was your problem then and it is now. You'll be the ones living with the results of an enemy army within your nation-by invitation.

Good luck.

why the mods still haven't banned your ranting a$$, is beyond me. It was never accomplished before 2001 because it was never a problem, try thinking for once before ranting. these militants had their own govt. in afghanistan, not in Pakistan, they could have attacked our FC forces and try to annex our side of the territory before your arrival, but they didn't although they believe our side of the durand belongs to them. it's because of your carelessness, and inaction these problems still exist and have only gotten worse.

it is your responsibility to make sure these militants are flushed out of afghanistan. it was and is your responsibility to stop militants from infiltrating the border of a sovereign nation, Pakistan! you didn't do that, either because you were incapable-which I doubt considering your surveillance capabilities- or either because you didn't care and instead wanted it to happen. these militants are getting their weaponry and supply from your side of the border. we brought this to NATO's attention just a few months ago, what has happened since? approximately six hundred militants come attack our FC posts from Afghanistan's side of the border, right under your noses! what did you do?

admit that you are completely at fault for this mess, from '79 to '09, and stop ranting, just reading you fcuking posts is a headache and an eyesore!

 

[roadrunner]

Right.

Idiots.

Asked for the Durand Line to be mined, closed? Why didn't this get accomplished with an AGREED Durand line while the taliban were in power? Never a better chance. Didn't happen then. You want borders fenced and mined. Do it yourself on your side.

That's what was proposed. Mining on Pakistan's side. Duhhhh

The US and Karzai rejected it - why?

Pakistan went ahead with it.

Fencing, mining of border from next month: Sherpao - Mining Top News

It's all our fault that the taliban crossed into Pakistan. Feel better?

If the US war planners were able to actually do their job, Pakistan would not be in the position it is today, with Arab and Uzbek radicals littered along the border.

You made big holes in your ill thought out sweeps across Afghanistan that let most of he militants slip away. Did you ever wonder why there was such litte resistance in the beginning?

Still, there they are. Oh well, we'll try harder the next time because it's OUR responsibility to secure your external borders despite you possessing an army for EXACTLY that intended purpose.

Pakistan Army is not a border security patrol.

You should have planned this ahead of the war with Pakistan.

Established points all the way along the border, paid people to man those checkpoints, or manned them with Americans to be sure.

But you didn't.

Instead you left big football stadium gaps for people to walk across the border.

Of course, you'll live with our efforts-good or bad-on your behalf.

Idiots.

You let a foreign army invade your nation in 2001-2002. They've camped out on your land.

The Arabs are foreign. They should have been taken into consideration with your war plan.

Instead, your war plan was march into Kabul and declare victory. What an achievement.

If nobody in this damn world lifts a finger to help, you can still be assured that these militants intend to dismantle your government.

It was your problem then and it is now. You'll be the ones living with the results of an enemy army within your nation-by invitation.

Good luck.

The problem is this.

These militants hate you.

Why do they hate you? I think it's because they see you as an invading force, that's killing their "brothers and sisters".

Why didn't the Afghans accept the Comminists? They were offering them much more than the Americans. So why should they accept you?

This is my firm belief. When the US army withdraws from Afghanistan, the militancy in Pakistan will drift away.

I just hope you take the Arabs and Uzbek radicals with you.

 

[Kasrkin]

Asked for the Durand Line to be mined, closed? Why didn't this get accomplished with an AGREED Durand line while the taliban were in power?

Maybe because we lacked the resources (and still do) and more to the point we didn't require it at the time. And BTW do go over the GoA reactions to Pakistan's desire to mine its side of the border.

 

[S-2]

The Durand line has been a long-standing source of dispute. This is not some new phenomena that's arised from the murk after 2001. Your nation's diplomats never held a better opportunity to resolve disposition based upon the ability to work with amenable partners than when the taliban were in power.

In any case, resolution only entails demarcation of the line. Fencing and mining what is yours following such will be impossible. One doesn't plant mines without providing overwatch. They'll be lifted and used against you otherwise. You've hundreds of kilometers of border which will need fencing, mining, and maintenence.

Oh! You'll need lots of money to do so and even more to compensate families that are killed by these land-mines. It'll take them some time to understand that you intend to divide the pashtu forever.

 

[S-2]

Let's be clear- I owe you no obligation to agree with you. Doing so would make me wrong.

I reject your criticism of our performance in 2001. It's irrelevant that the taliban retreated faster than we could attack on horseback with the N.A. If a foreign army invades America, it'll be America's responsibility to deal with the matter as we are the same who must otherwise live with the consequences. Dance all day long but at the end you've an afghan taliban army on your soil because you didn't keep them from crossing your border.

Simple concept really.

Roadrunner,

I see the mining article. This will be interesting to see how it works. I didn't read all of it but I can't imagine that it'll be contigious along the length. Hmmm...

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

The Durand line has been a long-standing source of dispute. This is not some new phenomena that's arised from the murk after 2001. Your nation's diplomats never held a better opportunity to resolve disposition based upon the ability to work with amenable partners than when the taliban were in power.

In any case, resolution only entails demarcation of the line. Fencing and mining what is yours following such will be impossible. One doesn't plant mines without providing overwatch. They'll be lifted and used against you otherwise. You've hundreds of kilometers of border which will need fencing, mining, and maintenence.

Oh! You'll need lots of money to do so and even more to compensate families that are killed by these land-mines. It'll take them some time to understand that you intend to divide the pashtu forever.

that's your argument! I thought the durand line isn't recognized only by afghanistan, I didn't know that you didn't recognize it either! as far as I know the entire world recognizes Pakistan as it is now, except india and maybe afghanistan. it was and is your responsibility to seal up the border, since you are in control of afghanistan, not us. we aren't to blame for your militant problems. even if these militants are coming from pakistan and are bothering you, shut up and seal the fcuking border! that way everyone his happy, but apparently, we can all see you are not bothered by the militants at all. it makes us wonder what you are really planning to do with the region (hint: great game).

P.S: you have more than enough money to do it, so don't complain. instead of giving us aid and btiching about it later, just spend that money to seal the border and leave. it would make the world a better place.

 

[roadrunner]

That's the whole point. It can't be mined along the length.

It needs financial help.

Pakistan doesn't have the resources to mine it all.

My personal opinion is there shouldn't be mining as i'm not very fond of the Durand line in all honesty.

But it shows Pakistan is willing. The US could easily supply the resources for the mining along the entire border, should it want to.

 

[S-2]

"it was and is your responsibility to seal up the border"

We failed and there they are on your soil. Not our job. We're fighting a war. Most neighboring nations deploy forces to their borders when conflict ensues for just this reason. It's called containment. Who suffers the consequences of our failure to guard your borders for you?

You or America? If you, then you bear the final and ultimate responsibility to protect your borders anyway possible regardless of the successful or unsucessful efforts of others on your behalf.

 

[S-2]

"This is my firm belief. When the US army withdraws from Afghanistan, the militancy in Pakistan will drift away."

Then brace yourself and pray that you are wrong because we'll be there for awhile. Can the other 40 nations remain after we leave?

 

[S-2]

"The US could easily supply the resources for the mining along the entire border, should it want to."

I'm not certain of that. This could be a physically massive project if contigious. There also are legal ramifications though I believe it's completely your right to do so should you wish.

My guess is that there are discrete areas in mind. I'll look forward to reading more on this project.