2 years in jail, Rs500,000 fine for mocking Pakistani forces as amendment bill passed

[paritosh]

I am ok with this law

There should be healthy debate but Loyalty of Forces and their Love for Country should not be doubted

You speak as if the military doesn’t have people running it. People are flawed to varying degrees. Such laws elevate a group of people to a godly pedestal, by removing the ability to be criticised.
There isn’t an organisation run by people that’s incapable of corruption and crime. Without checks and balances, you are handing over the country.

 

[Abdulrehman 2978]

Whoever thought about this, Allah apko salaamat rakhei. Maryam or uske ghulaamo ka dhanda band.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

What would Mastan Sir do?

stay out of Pakistan like me

 

[Abdulrehman 2978]

Maryam and her slaves were spreading misinformation against armed forces every single hour. They constantly criticize our forces. Hopefully this bill will stop it. Its better to make "controversial" laws before our enemies start using it against us. Sabse pehle shahid khakaan ko seedha kro saala kahi ka.

I agree - too broad.

In general I have an issue with these kinds of restrictions.

That said, given Pakistan's unique circumstances, there does need to be some kind of control on the allegations of military involvement in politics based solely on rumor mongering. I'm not saying the military has not meddled in politics in the past, but at what point do we agree that the military establishment has taken a hands off approach in domestic politics, even if it continues to influence foreign policy through the proper channels (much as is done in the US)?

In my view these kinds of allegations end up damaging democracy in Pakistan.

I think government did this this shut up PDM.

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

2 years in jail, Rs500,000 fine for mocking Pakistani forces as amendment bill passed
Pakistan
Azaz Syed
April 07, 2021

PTI lawmaker Amjad Ali Khan had submitted the new amendment bill, which was passed by a majority vote

(Top) The National Assembly Standing Committee on Interior meets for a session in Islamabad, Pakistan. Geo Urdu/Files; (Bottom) The Pakistani armed forces during a parade. Geo.tv/Files

• Critics of Pakistan's armed forces to face two years in jail, fine worth up to Rs500,000 or both, as pernew criminal law amendment bill.
• National Assembly Standing Committee on Interior passed bill submitted byPTI lawmaker Amjad Ali Khan.
• The committee's chairperson, Raja Khurram Shahzad Nawaz of the PTI, broke the 5-5 vote tie by voting in favour of the bill.
• "Criticism in good faith should not be misunderstood. Why are they being made sacred cows," the lawmakers against the bill argued.

ISLAMABAD: Critics of the Pakistan armed forces now face two years in jail as well as fines worth up to Rs500,000, as per a new criminal law amendment bill passed Wednesday by the National AssemblyStanding Committee on Interior.
Submitted by PTI lawmakerAmjad Ali Khan, the bill was approved by a majority. The chairperson of thestanding committee, Raja Khurram Shahzad Nawaz, broke the 5-5 vote tie by voting in favour of the proposed bill.
PPP leaderSyed Agha Rafiullah, as well as the PML-N's Marriyum Aurangzeb and Chaudhry Nadeem Abbas Rebaira, argued against the bill, saying it would be used against freedom of expression in Pakistan.


The Khyber Pakhtunkhwa government has voted against the bill even though the remaining three provinces were yet to express their views on it, they argued. "It is against our own institutions [and] we stand strong with our institutions.
"However, criticism in good faith should not be misunderstood. Why are they being made sacred cows," they argued further.
Under the criminal law amendment bill, Pakistan's armed forces and their personnel would be free from any deliberate ridicule, insult, and defamation. Those who do so would be punishable under Section 500A of the Pakistan Penal Code (PPC), with punishment including jail time of two years, a fine of up to Rs500,000 or both.
Furthermore, critics of the Pakistani armed forces would face trial in a civil court, according tothe criminal law amendment bill.

2 years in jail, Rs500,000 fine for mocking Pakistani forces as amendment bill passed

Critics of Pakistan's armed forces to face two years in jail, fine worth up to Rs500,000 or both, as per new criminal law amendment bill.National Assembly Standing Committee on Interior passed bill submitted by PTI...

www.geo.tv

@Horus @waz @The Eagle @krash @Jungibaaz @PakSword @ghazi52 @SQ8 @Areesh @Zibago @Patriot forever @ziaulislam @Del @Verve @muhammadhafeezmalik @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @Indus Pakistan @Jazzbot

It should not only be against armed forces but all the govt institutions and govt itself... but only ridicule and insults defamation or propaganda not criticism..

Mashallah PTI. This totally won't be abused, like the blasphemy law. /s.

This is almost as bad as Indians fining you for 15 million USD and jailing you for 1 year for not including Kashmir in a map of India. There is no clear cut definition for what is constructive criticism and outright defamation.

Now half the posts on PDF will probably be deleted.

Bahi article says insults and ridicule not constructive criticism.. and I see safronis crying all the time about how Mughals f*cked em up and even about Map thing saw one today

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize
- Kevin Alfred Strom

Emphasis here is on criticise jnaab and as far as I know Criticism =/= Insults

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But please give it a decade, senior folks from PTI's own ranks or maybe even IK himself, will eventually decry their role.

And at that point my response will be the same - critical of the PTI.

My position on this is simple - if an elected government cannot deliver on DOMESTIC policy goals because of alleged 'Army interference', then declare so publicly and resign. Don't turn it into a tamasha of leaking this that or the other during or after your tenure.

Take responsibility or refuse to play.

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

very true .

Not on a lynch mission today ?

Most countries that pass laws like this are rotten from the inside and crumbling because they feel jokes are powerful enough to topple them. Commonly these policies were found in Soviet era communist states and many Arab nations. These are not laws to be proud of.

I personally think Pakistan and Pakistani forces are strong enough to stand up to any comedian. The freedom of expression I have had as a Pakistani made me proud compared to my friends from other Muslim countries that were too afraid to speak out.

Here the thing is about propaganda being done using insults and ridicule towards armed forces backed by Saathis and other of their kind

All hail the benevolent millitocracy. To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize, etc. etc.

Criticism = Insult?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Never thought you would. I know you better than that.

Just frustrated at the continued and willing fall of the country and its people towards obvious disasters. So please don't take any of what I'm about to say as directed towards you.




C'mon, brother. We both know how it works. We both know how the military does its bidding. There is no other way this could have ever existed.





And that criticism, right or wrong, is a sacred right of every Pakistani. They are subject to that criticism as is their duty. They have no right to not exercise restraint. Let us not forget that it is this criticism which has removed the treasonous rule of military usurpers three times already. The mighty generals are afraid of words now? They should use their own then. And have they not? Have they not pushed us pills of their greatness? Of them being the only bulwark defending the country against all these corrupt civilians? With song and dance? While constructing the most elaborate network of corruption in the country themselves? Removing and installing politicians like Lego pieces? Usurping the country on a whim? The military's power and authority is by my allowance. It is subject to you and I. And it will take whatever criticism we throw at it.

Let's be very frank here. The military's involvement in the country's affairs today is predominantly self-serving and corrupt. They have eroded their goodwill themselves. It was not what some politician said. They have come out of their barracks and wrapped their corrupt tentacles around every thing in the country. The politician didn't ask them to, you and I didn't ask them to. In fact, they had no right to. They will receive the kind of rhetoric that PTM (which is a foreign funded propaganda tool) and Sharifs have directed at them, it is their own doing.



They will stop attacking the Army when it goes back to its barracks. If they want to embed themselves everywhere then this is what it comes with. The Generals have had more than their fair share of ruining the country. They have literally supported, abetted, enabled, and enforced treason 3 times. There is a reason you see an incompetent retired officer everywhere you look today. Now they are complaining? Of criticism? By politicians? And these men are supposed to fight nuclear wars?



He's been throwing it at the parties before him. The Army is his benefactor, he won't bite the hand that feeds him, not yet. Nawaz did not do it for the longest time either and for the exact same reason. The chattering classes are operating well within their rights, no matter how idiotic they may be. That is the very point of our freedom of expression; to sift out the idiotic noise.



A shit-show of words that should be answered with words. This censorship is aimed exactly at curbing the critical analysis and the education of the masses. Freedom of speech is the very corner stone of democracy, education, critical analysis, and progress. No good has ever come from curbing it.



And it is my right to call out every such legislator who is pushing the defiling of my constitutional and God given right at the behest of a corrupt and self-serving entity.

ps: This is exactly how an authoritarian, usurping, regressive, and/or extremist entity forces its will. Be it the blasphemy laws, CAB, or the "free and fair" elections that made presidents out of Ayub, Zia, and Musharraf.

I don't see where you and I disagree on anything, other than allegations that the Army is behind the bill.

I would merely point you to a large number of posters on this forum and elsewhere on social media, who routinely call for the Army to take a whole host of unconstitutional actions against the PTM, in Karachi, against the PMLN, against Pakistani liberals etc., so why is it so hard to believe that similar nationalists exist within the ranks of elected members of parliament that take their interpretation of nationalism to an extreme and try to pass bills such as these?

 

[SQ8]

The law is too broad and gives carte blanche..So basically - we wont be hearing of corruption cases against brass again. One society elite have secured their future into law today and another crack appears in the Pakistani state foundation.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Criticism = Insult?

You tell me buddy, I'm not the one calling for or supporting the banning of either criticism or insult. And the ambiguity of these terms is precisely one of the best reasons why this is such a draconian bill.

 

[User]

Sorry I forgot to add, this is a very brief bill and should be comprehensive in its approach.
It needs revisiting for various reasons.

It should firstly give definitions of:
1. ridicule
2. disrepute and
3. defamation.

Secondly, it should state the exact date of its commencement. Since when it is considered to have been enforced?

Thirdly, whether it applies only to active duty personnel or retired as well.

Fourthly, the ranks covered under this bill.

Fifthly, if there are credible reports and proof of any personnel involved in any crime(s), is it going to constitute a crime or the person is secured under this bill?

These are few points I had in mind that needs incorporation into this bill. Otherwise it is no different than the bills passed by Russia where Presidents and former Presidents can`t be bothered.

 

[AZ1]

wish we could also have some laws related to media control as well. currently every ABC guy comes on media and start saying against forces.

It should firstly give definitions of:
1. ridicule
2. disrepute and
3. defamation.

That will be and should be decided by forces. If someone says on media about forces then better have evidence and should not allow behind" mere zaraye nei bataya" ya " chirya ne bataya".

 

[User]

That will be and should be decided by forces. If someone says on media about forces then better have evidence and should not allow behind" mere zaraye nei bataya" ya " chirya ne bataya".

Sir this is exactly what I want to say. Anyone who has no evidence for what they are claiming or saying, should automatically be considered a crime because then it becomes a propaganda that I have talked about in my earlier comment.

 

[Darth Vader]

This has both pros and cons
Biggest issue what is the defined limit, how can state insure that this wont be abused in all honesty Military forces already have enough freedom and power to do whatever they like.

Biggest concern is Armed forces have already been involved too much in shady stuff in past that even with all the hard work done cant change the past, better to take criticism and stop with actually work rather than forcing everyone to not say anything
Neither Pakistani state itself or judiciary has enough power to insure fair use of this

 

[Awan68]

The law should be clearly defined, i am not against such a law but it should be confined to false and anti state propoganda, banning constructive criticism is what destroys states.