2 Ismaili Jamaat Khanas in Karachi attacked during prayer time

[Irfan Baloch]

Bet you neither @Oscar nor @RescueRanger will touch this excellent question - why and how did ity happen that 3 of the 4 caliphs were "done in"? Is the talib really outside of islamic "tradition?

thats another argument really
were those murders and massacre really Islamic or just the traditional Arabian tribal barbarity?

Taliban say that its very Islamic hanging a beheaded corpse by a pole with a dagger in the chest with a warning that whoever dares to take it off will have the same fate. I dont see many people disagreeing with them out of fear or doubt


so UK and US leaders decide to talk for us saying that "Islam is a religion of peace" (although Al Qaeda and TTP have made it a religion of pieces .. of human flesh and bones )

Yup @muse reached the station but the train has already departed.

where you at?

what about me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_5uok8zlBE

 

[RescueRanger]

Satyagaya hai bhai...living in your own reality.

The lights are on but no body is home... :p

thats another argument really
were those murders and massacre really Islamic or just the traditional Arabian tribal barbarity?

Taliban say that its very Islamic hanging a beheaded corpse by a pole with a dagger in the chest with a warning that whoever dares to take it off will have the same fate. I dont see many people disagreeing with them out of fear or doubt


so UK and US leaders decide to talk for us saying that "Islam is a religion of peace" (although Al Qaeda and TTP have made it a religion of pieces .. of human flesh and bones )



where you at?

what about me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_5uok8zlBE

Irfan Bahi, read my previous answers to muse, you will know where i am. Cant comment about you, you should know where you are and not me.

 

[muse]

thats another argument really
were those murders and massacre really Islamic or just the traditional Arabian tribal barbarity?

Taliban say that its very Islamic hanging a beheaded corpse by a pole with a dagger in the chest with a warning that whoever dares to take it off will have the same fate. I dont see many people disagreeing with them out of fear or doubt


so UK and US leaders decide to talk for us saying that "Islam is a religion of peace" (although Al Qaeda and TTP have made it a religion of pieces .. of human flesh and bones )
]

I think we can make the case that it has everything to do with islam - you will note that their murders were due to doctrinal differences

 

[Dubious]

yes I am ashamed to see these videos where taliban & Al qaeda are praised by our Islamic leaders. do you share the shame or are you going to throw some counter irrelevant questions as an answer?

jamat ISlami Amir praising Taliban and their fight against Pakistan
Jamat-e-Islami Munawar Hassan And Qazi Hussain = Talibans - YouTube


Dr Zakir Naik praising terrorism of OSama

I will keep Dr. Zakir out of it coz of a number of reason...He rose to fame a little too fast for people to digest...

2) he said IF in everything the India media painted as a confession... (IF Osam is terrorizing a terrorist (America) I am with him every Muslim SHOULD TERRORIZE the terrorist.....) I dont know about you but HIS IF has some weight which everyone overseas....It wasnt a confession even a lawyer cant prosecute him ONLY INDIAN MOLVI CAN....

3) the very people who gave him the title KAFIR themselves bow to saints....so am not sure who the Kafir is there

4) The very people who said he said the word KAFIR and made it a hooo and haaa themselves CALLED HIM KAFIR but NO ONE made a HOOO HAAA out of that....


Now as for our Molvi...Honestly speaking I listen to NONE except my parents used to listen to the speeches of this 1 particular 1 who is dead now....I listen to the English speakers coz I understand English better and can AT ONCE tell who is BS and who is not...

 

[L@eeq]

Satyagaya hai bhai...living in your own reality.

thats true thats true

 

[Dubious]

I think we can make the case that it has everything to do with islam - you will note that their murders were due to doctrinal differences

And where in Islam it says make your differences? It preaches the opposite which is unity! And well those who creating differences are OBVIOUSLY wrong....and hence THAT caused the killing the blame the murder why the RELIGION?

You really have a werid way of thinking or do you even think? Coz I swear I read ditto comments in newspaper something along these lines:

he didnt agree with this so he killed so and so HENCE ISLAM IS A TERRORIST RELIGION

 

[Iggy]

thats the question I always ask myself. in what book or reference does Islam preach everything that Al Qaeda , TTP and FSA are doing in the name of Islam?
why should Islam take blame for the savagery of Taliban?
but both the Muslims and non-Muslims mostly see Al Qaeda and Taliban as synonymous to Islam

Sir, many of you guys think that I am trolling but I am saying it anyway.. Muslims, especially in Islamic countries do supported actions of those people when terrorist attacks used to happen in other countries.. Even in this forum, there were posts like, "it happened because of their (the particular country's )own doings" and such kind of posts.. Even there was a strong sentiments against US because they attacked Afghanistan to wipe out Al-Qaeda.. They do not care even it was against a terrorist organisation.. For them, it was a war against Islam..Even now there are talks about Good Taliban and Bad Taliban.. Only when the terror reached your shores, most of the people started talking against it.. Its no secret that many of the Islamic country's and organisations used Islam as a tool and those who should have talked against it kept silent and those who talked against it were branded as enemies of Islam.Islam take blame to the savagery of Taliban because, Islam didnt oppose their actions from the beginning. Those scholars and members kept silent when it was growing..

 

[Spring Onion]

Sir, many of you guys think that I am trolling but I am saying it anyway.. Muslims, especially in Islamic countries do supported actions of those people when terrorist attacks used to happen in other countries.. Even in this forum, there were posts like, "it happened because of their (the particular country's )own doings" and such kind of posts.. Even there was a strong sentiments against US because they attacked Afghanistan to wipe out Al-Qaeda.. They do not care even it was against a terrorist organisation.. For them, it was a war against Islam..Even now there are talks about Good Taliban and Bad Taliban.. Only when the terror reached your shores, most of the people started talking against it.. Its no secret that many of the Islamic country's and organisations used Islam as a tool and those who should have talked against it kept silent and those who talked against it were branded as enemies of Islam.Islam take blame to the savagery of Taliban because, Islam didnt oppose their actions from the beginning. Those scholars and members kept silent when it was growing..

hmmm BUT our point is that these Outside countries or foreign countries including US of A has supported the same Islamic Al-Qaeda terrorists and affilates against Syria, Egypt and so on and You Bharatis acted as cheerleaders over that.

I think we can make the case that it has everything to do with islam - you will note that their murders were due to doctrinal differences

Thats the excuse. the terrorists even dont know the basics of any doctrine and i say it with conviction.

I can bet on anything that they even dont have any knowledge of Quran.

 

[muse]

Sir, many of you guys think that I am trolling but I am saying it anyway.. Muslims, especially in Islamic countries do supported actions of those people when terrorist attacks used to happen in other countries.. Even in this forum, there were posts like, "it happened because of their (the particular country's )own doings" and such kind of posts.. Even there was a strong sentiments against US because they attacked Afghanistan to wipe out Al-Qaeda.. They do not care even it was against a terrorist organisation.. For them, it was a war against Islam..Even now there are talks about Good Taliban and Bad Taliban.. Only when the terror reached your shores, most of the people started talking against it.. Its no secret that many of the Islamic country's and organisations used Islam as a tool and those who should have talked against it kept silent and those who talked against it were branded as enemies of Islam.Islam take blame to the savagery of Taliban because, Islam didnt oppose their actions from the beginning. Those scholars and members kept silent when it was growing..

You are only saying what the rest of the world knows, but in and among some pakistanis and especially among a section of Mods here, this reality is so disturbing that that their only recourse is to argue that such suggestions are an attack on islam - this basic jamaati tactic, curiously, has found much favor here on defense.pk -- I don't think it an accident and we must identify those who promote such arguments and deal with them.

As long as the charge that "islam is a terrorist religion" can be bandied about without dealing with the question that the terrorists claim to be Muslims and acting in the name of Islam, I think it will be continue to be a hazy situation for most pakistanis, something that might suit a section of our moderation

 

[Dubious]

Sir, many of you guys think that I am trolling but I am saying it anyway.. Muslims, especially in Islamic countries do supported actions of those people when terrorist attacks used to happen in other countries.. Even in this forum, there were posts like, "it happened because of their (the particular country's )own doings" and such kind of posts.. Even there was a strong sentiments against US because they attacked Afghanistan to wipe out Al-Qaeda..

I think those feelings were more about US attacking A MUSLIM country...That too a POOR MUSLIM COUNTRY...USA ko tou sharam hi nai atti...picking on someone weaker than them....Kabhi India ya China pay bomb phankay tou banda dekhay ....I mean both are America kay size ki right?

They do not care even it was against a terrorist organisation.. For them, it was a war against Islam..

So the Muslims living in Afghanistan have no value? Have you seen in media how long for 1 American or Chinese killed in USA the media keeps repeating it over and over...but thousands of Afghani wiped out in a blink of an eye gets lets media coverage than 1 citizen of another country?! What do YOU see in that? Or do you not even see that?

Even now there are talks about Good Taliban and Bad Taliban.. Only when the terror reached your shores, most of the people started talking against it..

Well, dont know about good or bad...I do feel for the nut jobs they blow themselves up...No idea what they will tell ALLAH how they killed many CIVILIANS and not 1 BAD PERSON..

Its no secret that many of the Islamic country's and organisations used Islam as a tool and those who should have talked against it kept silent and those who talked against it were branded as enemies of Islam.

Sadly it is universal I can give you an equal example...No one talks bad about corruption or if they talk they dont do anything to mitigate the problem....and those who try end up in Altaf's bori...Does the similarity ring a bell?

Islam take blame to the savagery of Taliban because, Islam didnt oppose their actions from the beginning. Those scholars and members kept silent when it was growing..

Islam does oppose it is PEOPLE WHO LABEL themselves as Muslims didnt...

Look there are Christians and there are CHRISTIANITY...can you BLAME CHRISTIANITY for what the Templar knights did or do you blame the CHRISTIANS (the knights themselves) of that time?

The most I oppose is people using PEOPLE who call themselves MUSLIM = Islam...

Islam is a religion and then there are people who call themselves the follower and do as they wish...like how the pope ordered people to be killed during the crusades! So there is similarity there...Kindly think before labeling or using a term!

 

[Iggy]

hmmm BUT our point is that these Outside countries or foreign countries including US of A has supported the same Islamic Al-Qaeda terrorists and affilates against Syria, Egypt and so on and You Bharatis acted as cheerleaders over that.

Its not about passing the buck.. You can blame it on any other XYZ country..

Why are they using you?? Tell me? Why not any other religious organisations?

Dont you think it may be because, you are an easy target to manipulate.. Just some rumor about a Quran insult and some other thing, you guys will start attacking and burning everything.. How many of the actual people took a moment to verify the facts? You cannot blame it on any other people for your own doings.. Others just used you as a tool because they find it comparatively easy to manipulate you and use you for their own needs..

 

[Dubious]

Its not about passing the buck.. You can blame it on any other XYZ country..

Why are they using you?? Tell me? Why not any other religious organisations?

other organizations are FLEXIBLE and allow a lot of things to be introduced and bent while Islam sticks to its doctrine!

Dont you think it may be because, you are an easy target to manipulate..

Most of the MULLAHS are in the trade either for $$ or have limited knowledge passed from parents and so on...soo people just "respect" and "listen" to them based on lineage...the guy may not even have an ounce of knowledge on Islam...SUCH people are targets!

Just some rumor about a Quran insult and some other thing, you guys will start attacking and burning everything..

Like I said the guys dont have an ounce of knowledge since they know not how to react they go to their natural instincts and jsut destroy anything...Mind you that was the way the Jahil of Arabia (before Islam) showed distress...tor phor shor machana and all...

Can I just ask you HOW many of us on PDF have actually been involved in such stupid tor phor?! HOW MANY? So does it not seem obvious who these people are?

How many of the actual people took a moment to verify the facts? You cannot blame it on any other people for your own doings..

It takes 1 mad man to say something and then PROCLAIM this is against Islam...or is soo wrong WE NEED TO RIGHT it....or that teach someone a lesson....

Hell even when Benazir died there was soo much toor phooor....Jahils will be Jahils...kindly dont call them Muslims...

Others just used you as a tool because they find it comparatively easy to manipulate you and use you for their own needs..

That is a fact....Others DID use us....

 

[Iggy]

I think those feelings were more about US attacking A MUSLIM country...That too a POOR MUSLIM COUNTRY...USA ko tou sharam hi nai atti...picking on someone weaker than them....Kabhi India ya China pay bomb phankay tou banda dekhay ....I mean both are America kay size ki right?

See, its what I am talking about.. People do not care about Afghanistan being a safe heaven for one of the dreaded terrorist organisation which many of you claim that have giving bad name of Islam.. .For you, it was an attack against a Poor Muslim country not against a terrorist organisation and then you wonder by Islam is getting bad name for the actions of these groups..And honestly tell me why are you talking about Dignity? Its their country which have been attacked and they send a clear message to those who did it..And pray tell me why US have to attack India or China? When did we attack them?

So the Muslims living in Afghanistan have no value? Have you seen in media how long for 1 American or Chinese killed in USA the media keeps repeating it over and over...but thousands of Afghani wiped out in a blink of an eye gets lets media coverage than 1 citizen of another country?! What do YOU see in that? Or do you not even see that?

Dont think it as an insult to your religion. Take it in a positive way.. They were doing the job that you should have done many years ago.. If it have been curbed from the beginning, many of the Pakistan and Afghanistan lives could have saved..

Well, dont know about good or bad...I do feel for the nut jobs they blow themselves up...No idea what they will tell ALLAH how they killed many CIVILIANS and not 1 BAD PERSON..

Well tell that to the many of the members here.. Many of them are very much vocal about the heroics of Afghan Taliban..

Sadly it is universal I can give you an equal example...No one talks bad about corruption or if they talk they dont do anything to mitigate the problem....and those who try end up in Altaf's bori...Does the similarity ring a bell?

Then why you guys are wondering why Islam is getting linked with terrorist attacks.. Our nations are considered as most corrupted because we kept silent on that matter.. Its our curse to labelled as such because we didnt speak against it..

Islam does oppose it is PEOPLE WHO LABEL themselves as Muslims didnt...

Look there are Christians and there are CHRISTIANITY...can you BLAME CHRISTIANITY for what the Templar knights did or do you blame the CHRISTIANS (the knights themselves) of that time?

The most I oppose is people using PEOPLE who call themselves MUSLIM = Islam...

Islam is a religion and then there are people who call themselves the follower and do as they wish...like how the pope ordered people to be killed during the crusades! So there is similarity there...Kindly think before labeling or using a term!

I guess, you took everything I wrote as an insult to Islam.. You can compare Islam with any other religion and argue that your religion is peaceful.. But the fact remains that people are blaming Islam or Muslims when a terrorist attack is happened.. If the blame does not go to Muslims, then who else?

 

[Slav Defence]

thats the question I always ask myself. in what book or reference does Islam preach everything that Al Qaeda , TTP and FSA are doing in the name of Islam?
why should Islam take blame for the savagery of Taliban?
but both the Muslims and non-Muslims mostly see Al Qaeda and Taliban as synonymous to Islam

Becuase they entitle themselves as muslims,they call themselves as muslim and represent their 'twisted version of Islam' as well,no matter how much we declare them as non muslims,it will not change their mindset,even though if you will kill a TTP militant right infront of their eyes they will think:'Look a sunni muslim of has killed salafi muslim' this is their real thinking,sadly

 

[Dubious]

See, its what I am talking about.. People do not care about Afghanistan being a safe heaven for one of the dreaded terrorist organisation which many of you claim that have giving bad name of Islam.. .For you, it was an attack against a Poor Muslim country not against a terrorist organisation and then you wonder by Islam is getting bad name for the actions of these groups..And honestly tell me why are you talking about Dignity? Its their country which have been attacked and they send a clear message to those who did it..And pray tell me why US have to attack India or China? When did we attack them?

So for the actions of Hindus should India be attacked? For actions of Buddhist should China be attacked or Burma...I am not sure if you realize the differences between a civilian and some lunatic who did those attacks?

I was giving an example based on size of the country and population India and China would be a match and not picking on smaller poorer countries...As far as I am concerned USA killed Saddam YET DID NOT LEAVE....killed Osama yet DID NOT LEAVE...DESTROYED Afghanistan YET did not leave...

Can I ask you why diid your ancestors fight the British? Because NO ONE tolerates foreign sh1ts in their country after a certain time period...Why overlook this in terms of AMERICA?

Dont think it as an insult to your religion. Take it in a positive way.. They were doing the job that you should have done many years ago.. If it have been curbed from the beginning, many of the Pakistan and Afghanistan lives could have saved..If we could have curbed ANYTHING we wouldnt have corrupt politicians...we wouldnt be soo left behind...Did we need America nope...we need leaders to guide us not dictators to dictate us...

Well tell that to the many of the members here.. Many of them are very much vocal about the heroics of Afghan Taliban..

I am not sure who is a taliban...I am only vocal about the word used to describe them...Talib means student...The media just went haywire coz it didnt know the meaning of Talib and spread it as though it means terrorists when in reality it means student!

Then why you guys are wondering why Islam is getting linked with terrorist attacks.. Our nations are considered as most corrupted because we kept silent on that matter.. Its our curse to labelled as such because we didnt speak against it..

Mind you many did speak against it and have been for a long time..It is media who ONLY SELLS hot cakes!

I guess, you took everything I wrote as an insult to Islam.. You can compare Islam with any other religion and argue that your religion is peaceful.. But the fact remains that people are blaming Islam or Muslims when a terrorist attack is happened.. If the blame does not go to Muslims, then who else?

People who call themselves Muslims....I can pay for something to blow up and leave a bible or Gita inside it....what will you call that?