2 Ismaili Jamaat Khanas in Karachi attacked during prayer time

[Elmo]

not sure about Pakistan, but majority of people just call them Mosques now a days at least in Canada unless you are old though folks in Pakistan can correct me on this. @Armstrong, is this incident due to religious intolerance or is the ismaili community also responsible in this sectarian debacle. Keep in mind I am not sectarian nor do I associate myself with a specific sect even if some of my family may adhere with them (hint hint: donation hungry mosques/jamat khanna)

I would request you to avoid discussing the religious nitty gritties here. They collect donations, and people give them. There is no force involved.

Am confused.. Are we now talking of India ?? ?

India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan... may be it's really not the government, but the people themselves?

 

[liontk]

I would request you to avoid discussing the religious nitty gritties here. They collect donations, and people give them. There is no force involved.



India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan... may be it's really not the government, but the people themselves?

oh I apologize for that, I will edit it out since it does sound a tad bit offensive, however to clarify mam, i did add that as a cheeky comment for those of us that have gone to jamat khanna/mosque in general.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Not sure about the figure but yes those girls died for no reason. The fault however is not solely Musharraf's(even though he gave the final order) but rather of the cleric as well for taking the law into his own hand. There were better ways to do what he wanted to(correct or not).

Thats why i didnt mention the two brothers who used female students as human shield, neither some of those young males who were carrying around weapons for some reason. But bombardment and use of chemicals on female students was very cruel (i have watched the leaked video of burnt bodies of madrassa students, leaked by a son of a fauji). This warning to religious circles through use of brutal action backfired, TTP came into being in 2007 to avenge lal masjid episode, TNSM become violent, Punajbi taliban came into being and small level armed conflict in waziristan turned into whole country wide war against state of pakistan....................................Tehreek taliban pakistan is repercussion of lal masjid tragedy.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

You never know ... As they say, the good thing about rock bottom is that its the place you bounce back from.. All it takes is one right man in the right place..

Right now pak establishment,both civil and military doesn't have guts it seems to me...an important factor in war is not only resources at your disposal but to demonstrate ur will to win,to go further than ur enemy will.That means if he escalates ,u escalate.This creates deterence..even at the price of barbarism.They need to go all out..even start targeting terrorists families if they have to.They can't stop them by killing everyone,,there's too many of them..cut off one head and 2 more will grow in its place.They need to stop making these faltu trials and sending them to prisons,start doing mass roundup massacres of talibs and throwing the bodies to talib strongholds,anything that is necessary to inspire fear.Right now i'm getting feeling they are running timid,waiting for the next strike instead of going on the offensive.
Also i seriously don't understand why huge pak army can't even stop supply route?This is the most important part.
Too defensive mindset,just holding on to what we have.They need to go brutal and counterattack instead.
Go to the militants village and hang him in the public square,not in some distant jail.

 

[karan.1970]

India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan... may be it's really not the government, but the people themselves?

Do remember.. Of the people, by the people.. Eh ??

Every one gets the govt they deserve.. May be we deserve only this..

 

[Elmo]

oh I apologize for that, I will edit it out since it does sound a tad bit offensive, however to clarify mam, i did add that as a cheeky comment for those of us that have gone to jamat khanna/mosque in general.

Was there any force involved? Also, isn't the money spent on the community and its uplift?

Like the Parsis, I have never heard of a poor Ismaili who goes to bed hungry.

I guess you are sitting in Canada and see it as a unnecessary condition, others might not.

Do remember.. Of the people, by the people.. Eh ??

Every one gets the govt they deserve.. May be we deserve only this..

Ummm... I dont!

Do remember.. Of the people, by the people.. Eh ??

Every one gets the govt they deserve.. May be we deserve only this..

Ummm... I dont!

 

[SQ8]

Thats why i didnt mention the two brothers who used female students as human shield, neither some of those young males who were carrying around weapons for some reason. But bombardment and use of chemicals on female students was very cruel (i have watched the leaked video of burnt bodies of madrassa students, leaked by a son of a fauji). This warning to religious circles through use of brutal action backfired, TTP came into being in 2007 to avenge lal masjid episode, TNSM become violent, Punajbi taliban came into being and small level armed conflict in waziristan turned into whole country wide war against state of pakistan....................................Tehreek taliban pakistan is repercussion of lal masjid tragedy.

They were reports of White Phosphorus rounds...and the families were hushed up. Another example of where dictatorship does not work.

 

[Elmo]

Do remember.. Of the people, by the people.. Eh ??

Every one gets the govt they deserve.. May be we deserve only this..

The other day @Zakii shared this beautiful couplet from Iqbal's Shikwa, it fits the situation perfectly:

Ye Shikayatt Nahin, Hain Un Ke Khazane Maamur
Nahin Mehfil Mein Jinhain Baat Bhi Karne Ka Shaur


That ignorant men who lack the grace to ope their lips in conclave high
Should have their coffers treasure‐filled, is not the burden of our sigh;



Qehar To Ye Hai Ke Kafir Ko Milain Hoor-o-Qasoor
Aur Bechare Musalman Ko Faqat Wada-e-Hoor


But O, that this world’s best should fall to unbelievers from Your hand
While we on promises are fed of pleasures in a shadowy land!


Source: http://iqbalurdu.blogspot.com/2011/04/bang-e-dra-105-shikwa.html

 

[Ayush]

Chalo yar, all those interested.. lets pool money and buy a small private Island and call it Pakistan V.2. Maybe it will work better than this one because the first rule we will keep is to make sure all feudal's, Takfiris and clergy is kept out of it. Also the only armed forces will not go beyond the rank of Laftain.It'll be all good.

Sectarian conflict is not new to Karachi, but unlike the Iran/India/Saudia inspired proxy wars of the 90's. This is basically no holds barred , free-for-all Barbarism thanks to the internet and the fecal matter available on it. Many of these types are elite PDF members as well.

sir,what if an indian applies for a visa on that island??

 

[L@eeq]

They were White Phosphorus rounds...and the families were hushed up. Another example of where dictatorship does not work.

but all this incedent backfired. TTP shows these vids to young boys of 13 17 years ages. who do not know shittt. and after watching these and other this like vids they turn into brainwashed monsters killing inoccent people.
there was a boy in tank after training from t.t.p he threatend his father that you are living happy under musharaf you are also a kafir i will kill you one day. his white beard father was crying.

 

[liontk]

Was there any force involved? Also, isn't the money spent on the community and its uplift?

Like the Parsis, I have never heard of a poor Ismaili who goes to bed hungry.

I guess you are sitting in Canada and see it as a unnecessary condition, others might not.

Alas you are right madam that I cannot simply judge a whole community simply sitting in Canada comfortable as in my perspective at least here, I find this whole fund raising concept to be a tad bit outdated as its really showing off where most individuals are just doing it to improve their reputation in the congregation and missing the purpose in essence behind donation collection. However keeping my personal bias aside I do not disagree in Pakistan's case, where the event like these can be very beneficial in straightening the community. However I am digressing, my original question was with respect to ismaili community's reputation in Pakistan as I do not think the community has close minded radicals to invite these heinous attacks as it contradicts the very message of the religion/faith.

 

[rubyjackass]

Yara, three years ago, I was clinging to some hope. Now, I don't know what to say.........

I think there is some movement now. The government is holding meetings with political parties to formulate an anti-terrorism policy. The most likely outcome seems to be a huge operation which will take off under the new CoAS. Looking at Nawaz Sharif's statements it sounds like even he had enough of it. He might have gotten some clearance when he was in Saudi. And US will always be happy to back Pakistan in any action against terrorists. Only concern is that PTI will ****** for talks with Taliban. But your PM seems to be going full steam and he may bulldoze them. So there is some hope after all. But do not expect the yahoos to be eliminated. They will be most likely pushed into Afghanistan.

 

[SQ8]

but all this incedent backfired. TTP shows these vids to young boys of 13 17 years ages. who do not know shittt. and after watching these and other this like vids they turn into brainwashed monsters killing inoccent people.
there was a boy in tank after training from t.t.p he threatend his father that you are living happy under musharaf you are also a kafir i will kill you one day. his white beard father was crying.

That's what it is, perhaps this backlash is what was wanted in the first place. Some say our dear leader back then was advised against this decision by local consultants but the higher power enlightened him to take action.

 

[karan.1970]

The other day @Zakii shared this beautiful couplet from Iqbal's Shikwa, it fits the situation perfectly:

Ye Shikayatt Nahin, Hain Un Ke Khazane Maamur
Nahin Mehfil Mein Jinhain Baat Bhi Karne Ka Shaur


That ignorant men who lack the grace to ope their lips in conclave high
Should have their coffers treasure‐filled, is not the burden of our sigh;



Qehar To Ye Hai Ke Kafir Ko Milain Hoor-o-Qasoor
Aur Bechare Musalman Ko Faqat Wada-e-Hoor


But O, that this world’s best should fall to unbelievers from Your hand
While we on promises are fed of pleasures in a shadowy land!


Source: Allama Iqbal Poetry

Awesome.. though my favorite goes like this...

Barbad-E-Gulistaan Karne Ko To Ek Hi Ullu Kaafi Tha,
Yaha Har Shaakh Pe Ullu Baitha Hai Anjam-E-Gulistan Kya Hoga

[For destroying the wonderful garden, even one owl is sufficient
Here there is an owl on each branch, wonder what would happen to the garden]

 

[SQ8]

The other day @Zakii shared this beautiful couplet from Iqbal's Shikwa, it fits the situation perfectly:


Ye Shikayatt Nahin, Hain Un Ke Khazane Maamur
Nahin Mehfil Mein Jinhain Baat Bhi Karne Ka Shaur


That ignorant men who lack the grace to ope their lips in conclave high
Should have their coffers treasure‐filled, is not the burden of our sigh;



Qehar To Ye Hai Ke Kafir Ko Milain Hoor-o-Qasoor
Aur Bechare Musalman Ko Faqat Wada-e-Hoor


But O, that this world’s best should fall to unbelievers from Your hand
While we on promises are fed of pleasures in a shadowy land!


Source: Allama Iqbal Poetry

Then listen to the answer as well


Jin Ko Ata Nahin Dunya Mein Koi Fann, Tum Ho
Nahin Jis Qoum Ko Parwaye Nasheman, Tum Ho


You are the most incompetent in knowledge and in worth,
You love your homes the least among the nations of the earth;

Firqa Bandi Hai Kahin, Aur Kahin Zaatain Hain
Kya Zamane Mein Panapne Ki Yehi Baatain Hain?

You split yourselves in countless sects, In classes high and low;
Think you the world its gifts will still on such as you bestow?

Waza Mein Tum Ho Nisara, Tau Tamaddun Mein Hanood,
Yeh Musalman Hain! Jinhain Dekh Ke Sharmaen Yahood?

You distinguish yourself in the manner of christians, and your culture is(more and more) that of Hindus
How can a race as Muslims pass who shame even the Jews?

Tum Ho Apas Mein Ghazabnak, Woh Apas Mein Raheem
Tum Khatakaar-o-Khatabeen, Woh Khata Posh-o-Kareem

You roll the eye of mutual wrath, Their(Muslims of old) eye was ever kind;
You err, for errors look, while they were generously blind.

Chahte Sub Hain Ke Hon Auj-e-Surayya Pe Muqeem,
Pehle Waisa Koi Paida Tau Kare Qalb-e-Salim!

Aspiring for the Pleiades, How simple it all seems!
But let there first be hearts like theirs, To justify such dreams.

In Ko Tehzeeb Ne Har Bande Se Azad Kiya
La Ke Kaabe Se Sanamkhane Mein Abad Kiya

‘Enlightenment’ ensnared you all, and all your ‘fetters’ fell,
The land of Kaʹba you forsook, In idol‐land to dwell!