2 Days to go... Victory Day for Bangladeshi nation. A tribute to Freedom Fighters

[Anubis]

@Anubis
you already wrote in another comment that "they sent in their army to kill right and left whom ever they wanted". do you really think all those ordinary people are dead by now who witnessed the war firsthand and had interactions with West Pakistani armymen and would have called this statement crazy?

"and if they also considered us(namely you) their own countrymen why on earth did they oppose our rightful rule"

tell me how they opposed the "rule". but as a side note although WPakistanis cannot be shown to have opposed PAL's (Awami League's) election win, they had reason to oppose such mindset you are demonstrating through your words. PAL was supposed to be an elected party forming a government of United Pakistan. but when you put that in language like "us" ruling "them" like we were all kings ruling WPakistani subjects, WPakistanis should have had reasons to oppose. and when we look at the actual subversive activities carried out by extreme leftist elements in the months leading up to March 1971, West Pakistanis should have had reasons to feel concerned about the party that was going to be governing them.

the reasons behind the delay in handing power over to PAL are numerous. not only were East Pakistani masses hopeful about a civilian government, they had also not decided to settle for half of their country. it's in your imagination that East Pakistanis wanted to separate from West Pakistan, or West wanted to separate from East. and extremist elements of PAL including 'Nucleus' had questionable role in the events to say the least. but these are besides the point that India was our enemy and it waged war on us (East Pakistan) through various means:

1) logistical: provided armaments, finances and other tools to extreme leftist PAL elements to destabilize East Pakistan
2) physical: indian agents and trained elements had transgressed into the sovereign soil of East Pakistan long before March 1971 and indian military physically launched invasion of East Pakistan in December 1971
3) colonial: changed the entire constitution and national-provincial framework that we put in place in 1947.

and India won decisively. and it won so comprehensively that today the world encounters parts of the defeated and invaded population actually supports the actions of their enemy conqueror India.

if West Pakistan did not want to remain with East, they would not have spent the life of a single WPakistani-based soldier, or a single penny to root out Indian subversion in the land. or what if West Pakistan really did not want to be together with East (against the latter's wishes)? why was the only alternative of that was to become an Indian-controlled territory?

Where on earth did I say that that the West did not want to stay with the East or vice versa ??....A political party based on East Pakistan got the mandate to form the government of United Pakistan....BUT parties based on WEst Pakistan(PPP and the military leadership) opposed the rule of AL because they were Bengalis(Revisiting 1971: The crow is white, Bengal is Pakistan - Blogs - DAWN.COM

"tell me how they opposed the "rule". but as a side note although WPakistanis cannot be shown to have opposed PAL's (Awami League's) election win""

Yes they can be shown to have opposed AL's election win....when PPP was supposed to form the opposition party in a democratically elected parliament...instead they decided to side with the military not handing over power to a rightfully elected party....PPP(a west pakistani party) in a democratic country decided to go against a democratically elected government and side with a undemocratic dictatorship to oppose Al's election specifically because AL was headed and controlled by Bengalis.....it always has been us vs them....and it ended that way.

 

[khair_ctg]

Where on earth did I say that that the West did not want to stay with the East or vice versa ??....A political party based on East Pakistan got the mandate to form the government of United Pakistan....BUT parties based on WEst Pakistan(PPP and the military leadership) opposed the rule of AL because they were Bengalis(Revisiting 1971: The crow is white, Bengal is Pakistan - Blogs - DAWN.COM

"tell me how they opposed the "rule". but as a side note although WPakistanis cannot be shown to have opposed PAL's (Awami League's) election win""

Yes they can be shown to have opposed AL's election win....when PPP was supposed to form the opposition party in a democratically elected parliament...instead they decided to side with the military not handing over power to a rightfully elected party....PPP(a west pakistani party) in a democratic country decided to go against a democratically elected government and side with a undemocratic dictatorship to oppose Al's election specifically because AL was headed and controlled by Bengalis.....it always has been us vs them....and it ended that way.

PPP could have said whatever the heck it wanted. it could have spoke ill about PAL by speaking ill about Bengalis. it could have called Bengali people baboons. that could have in the spirit of party politics, at least the kind practiced in south asia. if PPP was being provincial minded it was going against the ideals of United Pakistan.

last time i checked there was no declaration from the United Pakistan military government saying "no predominantly Bengali party can govern United Pakistan". but i'd be interested to learn of any such declarations.

and what if the WPak-based military government did make that declaration and essentially cut off ties with East Pakistan? how does that connect to East Pakistanis' wanting to be invaded by India and not wanting to remain East Pakistan anymore?

i disagree with the narrative of the Dawn article. it invented from thin air a dichotomy between elites and Bengalis. East Bengal might have been socio-economically in the gutters, but were elites and political leaders never Bengalis and were Mohajirs never working class?

I would live in a prosperous Bangladesh in peace with the baniyas rather than staying united with a group of people just for the sake of overhyped religious nationalism and get drones firing hellfire in my *** all day long!

even though East Pakistanis decided otherwise, we did not need to stay united with West Pakistanis. we just needed to stop Indians marching all over us, and to stop Indians changing our framework from 1947.

you sound like you get massive kick out of us being an Indian administered state and out of the over-hyped psuedo-Hindu nationalism that is taking us further down the gutters as a moral or self-respecting society. p.s. unfortunately neither United Pakistan had nor today's Pakistan-Bangladesh have Islamic rule. the Muslim nationalism is largely based on the socio-economic position relative to non-Muslims and culture of the Muslims.

 

[Anubis]

PPP could have said whatever the heck it wanted. it could have spoke ill about PAL by speaking ill about Bengalis. it could have called Bengali people baboons. that could have in the spirit of party politics, at least the kind practiced in south asia. if PPP was being provincial minded it was going against the ideals of United Pakistan.

last time i checked there was no declaration from the United Pakistan military government saying "no predominantly Bengali party can govern United Pakistan". but i'd be interested to learn of any such declarations.

and what if the WPak-based military government did make that declaration and essentially cut off ties with East Pakistan? how does that connect to East Pakistanis' wanting to be invaded by India and not wanting to remain East Pakistan anymore?

i disagree with the narrative of the Dawn article. it invented from thin air a dichotomy between elites and Bengalis. East Bengal might have been socio-economically in the gutters, but were elites and political leaders never Bengalis and were Mohajirs never working class?


even though East Pakistanis decided otherwise, we did not need to stay united with West Pakistanis. we just needed to stop Indians marching all over us, and to stop Indians changing our framework from 1947.

you sound like you get massive kick out of us being an Indian administered state and out of the over-hyped psuedo-Hindu nationalism that is taking us further down the gutters as a moral or self-respecting society. p.s. unfortunately neither United Pakistan had nor today's Pakistan-Bangladesh have Islamic rule. the Muslim nationalism is largely based on the socio-economic position relative to non-Muslims and culture of the Muslims.

Do you seriously think that tte military needed to make an official declaration to be against AL and Bengali rule?....Did AL officially declare that BNP can not govern Bangladesh??...NO...but does that mean they have no problem with BNP governing Bangladesh??...Ofcourse not....tey will do everything in their power to stop BNP from coming to power....just like the WPs did in 71....they sent in their military to crush the party and the people supporting it....action speaks louder than words...and in this case it was so loud that people died!

Remember the caretaker government?? This is what military governments do...they promise democarcy...while delaying elections and handing over power...meanwhile crushing the parties....look at egypt...the same thing happened here in 71...just in a more massive scale....what WP military(yes they were not our military the moment they sent in forces to crush us....and OUR officers left the army) was in no way justifiable....and doesn't matter how hard you try to justify it....most educated and sane Pakistanis in the world and in this forum will agree with me!

 

[bongbang]

stop treating islamists as second class citizens in bangladesh and stop hanging members of jamaat e islami by saying they commited war crimes have you forgotten the agreement on which mujeed was released from prison. that agreement states that there will be no case held in the future against any one who participated in the war

Mujib is dead. We dont care what any Pakistani say. 90% BD is of Muslims. Muslim Hindu Buddhist Christian all are equal. And here are some photos of so called second class islamists. They are very happy to be a part of Bangladesh.

 

[Razia Sultana]

India should take them back.

Really??? They hate India so much and they left it for that utopian el dorado called pakistan. Having said that, we may think about it if they first vouch for our secular democracy. After all they are native of Bihar but first they must shun publicly the two nation theory of Jinnah.
And see, you still dont want them on your land.

 

[bongbang]

Really??? They hate India so much and they left it for that utopian el dorado called pakistan. Having said that, we may think about it if they first vouch for our secular democracy. After all they are native of Bihar but first they must shun publicly the two nation theory of Jinnah.
And see, you still dont want them on your land.

Thats why we created our country Bangladesh. So that every other day our neighbors cant force their native people to our country. Bangladesh is for Bangladeshis. These days we dont say anything against Biharis but Indians raise this issue here and there. So better India take them as Pakistanis dont care them anymore. As long as Bangladesh is made of 71 beliefs, there will be always negativity for pak razakar and biharis.
And many biharis would love to return india as many already gone back. India has to open door.

 

[Razia Sultana]

Thats why we created our country Bangladesh. So that every other day our neighbors cant force their native people to our country. Bangladesh is for Bangladeshis. These days we dont say anything against Biharis but Indians raise this issue here and there. So better India take them as Pakistanis dont care them anymore. As long as Bangladesh is made of 71 beliefs, there will be always negativity for pak razakar and biharis.

India neither forces anyone out nor any Indian wants to go and settle in Bangladesh. Bengalis never fought for a separate Bangla land prior to the 1971 episode. It was for Pakistan under 2-nation theory and those who supported 2-nation theory migrated to nearest pakistani land. Not long ago these bihari muslims were caught on india's western borders as their heart always lived Pakistan. Now Pakistan has stopped accepting them on their land and they hate both India and Bangladesh but they have no option but to live in BD. Many of them are coming to terms with it by passing generations but many still think ill of BD and find refuge in radical thought process. btw, i am happy that BD treats them as their citizens and does not do any atrocities on them. they must be loyal to BD and take it as a will of Allah (swt).

 

[rezangahir]

Thank you B.D,your creation provite us 90000 labours in 1971 some of them were employed in the construction of MERRUT-DELHI highway for ₹5 a day.

 

[khair_ctg]

Thats why we created our country Bangladesh. So that every other day our neighbors cant force their native people to our country. Bangladesh is for Bangladeshis. These days we dont say anything against Biharis but Indians raise this issue here and there. So better India take them as Pakistanis dont care them anymore. As long as Bangladesh is made of 71 beliefs, there will be always negativity for pak razakar and biharis.
And many biharis would love to return india as many already gone back. India has to open door.

perfect place for extremists like you is Hindutva electorates in India

Do you seriously think that tte military needed to make an official declaration to be against AL and Bengali rule?....Did AL officially declare that BNP can not govern Bangladesh??...NO...but does that mean they have no problem with BNP governing Bangladesh??...Ofcourse not....tey will do everything in their power to stop BNP from coming to power....just like the WPs did in 71....they sent in their military to crush the party and the people supporting it....action speaks louder than words...and in this case it was so loud that people died!

Remember the caretaker government?? This is what military governments do...they promise democarcy...while delaying elections and handing over power...meanwhile crushing the parties....look at egypt...the same thing happened here in 71...just in a more massive scale....what WP military(yes they were not our military the moment they sent in forces to crush us....and OUR officers left the army) was in no way justifiable....and doesn't matter how hard you try to justify it....most educated and sane Pakistanis in the world and in this forum will agree with me!

why i mentioned if there was an official declaration is because you implied the WPis already decided they don't want to be under a Bengali dominated EP-based party (even though they have accepted many Bengali politicians before). more fundamentalist PAL subgroups already started a logistical connection with Indian intelligence, and began various armed agitation and ceremonial activities. Op Searchlight was a significant operation and it did not start for no reason. the military government which happened to be mostly Punjab-based was in the process of handing power over to a civilian government even as Indian subversive activities already started before March 1971. the Op Searchlight was ill-advised imo. but had EP been stabilized from Indian manipulation. the transition to the civilian government would have happened.

leaving aside how PAL became the most popular party in EP, the 1970 election shows that was the case. my own family used to support PAL and they had various interactions with Pakistan army personnel during what is considered the wartime. if what you say is true that "they sent in their military to crush the party and the people supporting it" many of us would not have been alive today.

you probably know very well such statements you are making-including the one below made earlier-have no connection to reality. yet you keep going back to your same effort to justify and even celebrate us getting invaded, and colonized by a menace called India we had an official war against few years back and a regime that had always opposed our rights and existence since 1947.

"rather they sent in their army to kill right and left whom ever they wanted" - Anubis

even if the military government really did want to separate East and West Pakistans, they would be going against the constitution and against the East Pakistanis' wishes.

East Pakistan becoming is "Bangladesh" is a result of Indian invasion and colonization that has lasted to this day. East Pakistanis achieved East Pakistan in 1947 following lot of struggle. the framework of Bangladesh which India created or helped create in 1971 spits in the face of our forefathers' struggles and our Muslim identity.

 

[Razia Sultana]

East Pakistan becoming is "Bangladesh" is a result of Indian invasion and colonization that has lasted to this day. East Pakistanis achieved East Pakistan in 1947 following lot of struggle. the framework of Bangladesh which India created or helped create in 1971 spits in the face of our forefathers' struggles and our Muslim identity.

I would rather disagree with the above.
Indian Army intervention in creation of Bangladesh was only a last push regardless of Mukti Bahini's hobnobbing with Indian agencies. Bangladesh was already born in the minds and hearts of Bengalis of east pakistan over their accumulated humiliation and subsequent genocide at the hands of WP army. Indian Army's intervention, not invasion,only hastned the process else the reality of Bangladesh would have come a few years later with a few million more dead bodies and devastation.

The equations keep changing in geo politik but history can not be changed. Its been tough for Bangladeshi muslims to have a clear perspective on India. the pre and post partition bitter communal memories with India and then bitterness due to negligence and humiliation at the hands of their own muslim compatriots from the west leaves them with lots of confusion. Anyone who recalls the 1947 is branded as jamati, pro pak, radical while the ones who recall 1971 are branded as pro india, liberal, secular. IMO this is due to lack of strong democratic roots in both Pakistan and Bangladesh that they jump to quick superficial conclusions. Once there is respect for a counter opinion, such extreme brandings will stop. Using terms like "invasion" and "colonization" is reflective of this thinking.

 

[khair_ctg]

I would rather disagree with the above.
Indian Army intervention in creation of Bangladesh was only a last push regardless of Mukti Bahini's hobnobbing with Indian agencies. Bangladesh was already born in the minds and hearts of Bengalis of east pakistan over their accumulated humiliation and subsequent genocide at the hands of WP army. Indian Army's intervention, not invasion,only hastned the process else the reality of Bangladesh would have come a few years later with a few million more dead bodies and devastation.

The equations keep changing in geo politik but history can not be changed. Its been tough for Bangladeshi muslims to have a clear perspective on India. the pre and post partition bitter communal memories with India and then bitterness due to negligence and humiliation at the hands of their own muslim compatriots from the west leaves them with lots of confusion. Anyone who recalls the 1947 is branded as jamati, pro pak, radical while the ones who recall 1971 are branded as pro india, liberal, secular. IMO this is due to lack of strong democratic roots in both Pakistan and Bangladesh that they jump to quick superficial conclusions. Once there is respect for a counter opinion, such extreme brandings will stop. Using terms like "invasion" and "colonization" is reflective of this thinking.

long before March 1971, Bangladesh was already born in the minds and hearts of Indura Gandhi and RAW. Bengali East Pakistanis had nothing to do with that.

Indian underhand operations had resulted in a lot of bloodshed and immense suffering on many. you as an Indian citizen should stand corrected and not support your government's atrocities. sooner or later India as a country has to address the crimes it committed in 1971.

 

[Razia Sultana]

long before March 1971, Bangladesh was already born in the minds and hearts of Indura Gandhi and RAW. Bengali East Pakistanis had nothing to do with that.

Indian underhand operations had resulted in a lot of bloodshed and immense suffering on many. you as an Indian citizen should stand corrected and not support your government's atrocities. sooner or later India as a country has to address the crimes it committed in 1971.

If you think that way then you can exercise the option of reuniting with Pakistan. East and West Germany reunited so even east and west pakistan can reunite. But unfortunately for you the bihari muslims are a tiny minority in Bangladesh.

 

[hunter_hunted]

Bangalis you should be happy with your country and now its time for you to move on. You guys are really stuck in 1971.

 

[khair_ctg]

If you think that way then you can exercise the option of reuniting with Pakistan. East and West Germany reunited so even east and west pakistan can reunite. But unfortunately for you the bihari muslims are a tiny minority in Bangladesh.

why do you bring reunification with West Pakistan already? at first Bangladesh needs to get rid of the Indian imposed system and restore our own constitution from 1947.

why is it "unfortunate" that Bihari Muslims are a tiny minority of Bangladesh? are you saying Bengali Muslims are not enough to kick Indian system out of Bangladesh?

Bangalis you should be happy with your country and now its time for you to move on. You guys are really stuck in 1971.

whose country is Bangladesh? it is India's country. "Bangalis" cannot be happy in India's country were Bangali Muslims are second class citizens in their own country.

it is a country (aka Indian second rate state)........

-where Muslims have to act like Hindus, or they have to act more Hindu than Hindus themselves
-where we are forced to sing or pay respect to an Indian song as "national anthem"
-where India decides who is more of a citizen based on ethnicity and allegiance to 1947 framework
-where India decides which political party should be eliminated through judicial killings
-where India decides which political party or politician will rule

don't say "Bangalis" should be happy just yet

 

[khair_ctg]

how long are you going to keep using the same retarded propaganda like someone obsessed with hating their own background? even some of those "genocide" pictures could be of patriotic Bengalis and Mohajirs killed by pro-India fascists.

pro-India fascists have not even shied away from threatening the lives of today's patriotic Bengalis and Mohajirs either, on the ground in BD and on this forum.