2 Chinese citizens held in deadly Istanbul nightclub attack

[TaiShang]

One can simply not expect a unbiased post from Chinese (most) that doesnt contain fake news when its about Turkey.

There is no reason, really, why China would generate fake news about Turkey. It is a far away country with little to nothing strategic contact and small trade and business links. If Chinese government did not really discern/notice Uighur problem and Turkey's state-sanctioned and civilian intervention in its domestic affairs, Beijing would have no reason to be forced to generate a non-issue.

There is definitely something going on and hence Chinese government released information about the detained Turkey embassy officials via Xinhua.

China is not a country that seeks arbitrary enemies; even when bombs fell on its soils from the Myanmar side, China did not utilize coercive power or punishment, although it is capable of.

Why would China like to create an issue with the present-day radical Islamist Turkey government if there was nothing to worry about?

The solution is a more secular, pragmatic state-to-state conduct, respecting national sovereignty and putting behind other archaic and anti-sovereignty notions such as ummah or distant racial ties. If China really wanted, it could easily connect the Kurdish in Turkey with one of many small minority groups/languages in China and intervene in your own affairs; that would not really be too hard. If China is not doing this, the reason may be:

1. it does not feel too much bothered;

2. it has its eyes on a bigger prize.

 

[xenon54 out]

There is no reason, really, why China would generate fake news about Turkey. It is a far away country with little to nothing strategic contact and small trade and business links. If Chinese government did not really discern/notice Uighur problem and Turkey's state-sanctioned and civilian intervention in its domestic affairs, Beijing would have no reason to be forced to generate a non-issue.

There is definitely something going on and hence Chinese government released information about the detained Turkey embassy officials via Xinhua.

China is not a country that seeks arbitrary enemies; even when bombs fell on its soils from the Myanmar side, China did not utilize coercive power or punishment, although it is capable of.

Why would China like to create an issue with the present-day radical Islamist Turkey government if there was nothing to worry about?

The solution is a more secular, pragmatic state-to-state conduct, respecting national sovereignty and putting behind other archaic and anti-sovereignty notions such as ummah or distant racial ties. If China really wanted, it could easily connect the Kurdish in Turkey with one of many small minority groups/languages in China and intervene in your own affairs; that would not really be too hard. If China is not doing this, the reason may be:

1. it does not feel too much bothered;

2. it has its eyes on a bigger prize.

So far everything you guys presented as a proof of Turkeys link to separatists in China is based on vague speculation, starting with those fake passports, the ones you guys have posted here were old ones that werent issued since years which again is probably faked in black market, its not like terrorists using multiple fake passports is something rare and the reason for them to take the old ones is probably the RFID chip in new Turkish passports which are impossible or at least very hard to fake, really its a no brainer.

The next was a T-Shirt with Moon and Star if i remeber correctly, i mean c'mon and the rest are only baseless claims originating from rich phantasy of some Chinese mebers.

I dont know where those claims originate, if its Chinese state media then i must say its a very poorly orchestrated propaganda.

And lastly, supporting a separatists group in any way on the other side of the planet is a logistical nightmare, even more so for a middle sized coutry like Turkey with limited ressources.

 

[TaiShang]

So far everything you guys presented as a proof of Turkeys link to separatists in China is based on vague speculation, starting with those fake passports, the ones you guys have posted here were old ones that werent issued since years which again is probably faked in black market, its not like terrorists using multiple fake passports is something rare and the reason for them to take the old ones is probably the RFID chip in new Turkish passports which are impossible or at least very hard to fake, really its a no brainer.

The next was a T-Shirt with Moon and Star if i remeber correctly, i mean c'mon and the rest are only baseless claims originating from rich fantasy of some Chinese mebers.

I dont know where those claims originate, if its Chinese state media then i must say its a very poorly orchestrated propaganda.

Well, it has been well-documented and circulated and the terrorists and their enablers were apprehended. What happened next I am not aware of. But, Xinhua posted numerous images of fake China passports distributed by Turkish persons.

Nonetheless, Turkey's Islamist state media has been propagating hatred among its own people; not that it would reach in any destructive way beyond your own borders; hence, it oftentimes comes and bites back you.

For once, if you really want not to have any further attacks on your own soil by domestically-radicalized foreigners is to first contain your gov't-sponsored religious media. Because, once the radicals fid out that they cannot have their holy state in Syria, let alone in the Caucasus or Central Asia, they will naturally begin to target what they consider the secular elements of Turkish society.

 

[xenon54 out]

Well, it has been well-documented and circulated and the terrorists and their enablers were apprehended. What happened next I am not aware of. But, Xinhua posted numerous images of fake China passports distributed by Turkish persons.

Do we have names of arrested Turks who distributed those fake passports or was it just a one liner in news without quoting any source or reference?
And even if, is the link between those people and the Turkish state confirmed? If so where are the evidences of Turkish states involvement, you can easily claims things in media without delivering sources, happening in Turkish media but Chinese one isnt any better too in facts its the same everywhere.

For once, if you really want not to have any further attacks on your own soil by domestically-radicalized foreigners is to first contain your gov't-sponsored religious media. Because, once the radicals fid out that they cannot have their holy state in Syria, let alone in the Caucasus or Central Asia, they will naturally begin to target what they consider the secular elements of Turkish society.

''Domestically radicalizes foreighners''? Thats contradicting itself but anyways, have you seen the map of ME and Caucasus/Ukraine? Turkey is literally in the middle of multiple wars with an insurgency in its own territory, that the violance would spread one way or another is to be expected, you can take measures (which Turkey showed a poor performance so far tbh) but cant prevent it completely, hopefully the wall will help in the future.

Besides even the thread itself is contradicting what some Chinese claim, why would uyghurs attack Turkey is its supposed to be their supporter? And pls dont come up with ''chicken coming home to roast'' the same has been said about isis, you guys cant just use the same argument over and over again thats the easy way, get some arguments why you think its the way it is instead of blind nationalism and repulsion.

 

[TaiShang]

Do we have names of arrested Turks who distributed those fake passports or was it just a one liner in news without quoting any source or reference?
And even if, is the link between those people and the Turkish state confirmed? If so where are the evidences of Turkish states involvement, you can easily claims things in media without delivering sources, happening in Turkish media but Chinese one isnt any better too in facts its the same everywhere.

It has been reported by the government agency, which is not in the business of trying to grab headlines or generate internet traffic.

No, no names were provided, why would they? It was not a one-liner. It was a succession of news that were covered by the entire media.

http://www.guancha.cn/Third-World/2014_12_11_303075.shtml

http://news.hainan.net/guonei/guoneiliebiao/2015/01/14/2211898.shtml

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post2_8458346_1.html

''Domestically radicalized foreigners''? Thats contradicting itself

Right? Contradiction in terms, indeed. You may read it as blowback. Those people may be simple Chechnyans or Uzbeks that moved to Turkey for one reason or another. In Turkey, they got radicalized because civil society in Turkey seems to be very conducive to radicalization. Hence, they are domestically radicalized foreigners. I do not think all of them were originally radicals. Turkey government breeds terrorism which hits its own people.

you can take measures (which Turkey showed a poor performance so far tbh) but cant prevent it completely, hopefully the wall will help in the future.

Better late than never. Hopefully, Turkey will also close down all of the radical centers (Muslim Brotherhood and various anti-Syrian Islamist resistance organization offices in Turkey) and also contain the radical elements inside the government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_National_Intelligence_Organisation_scandal_in_Turkey

Besides even the thread itself is contradicting what some Chinese claim, why would uyghurs attack Turkey is its supposed to be their supporter?

Blowback. Same surprise that perhaps the US government experienced when the planes hit the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.

And pls dont come up with ''chicken coming home to roast'' the same has been said about isis, you guys cant just use the same argument over and over again thats the easy way, get some arguments why you think its the way it is instead of blind nationalism and repulsion.

There is no nationalism involved. Same argument can probably be used multiple times if they are factual. You cannot argue that the relativity argument should not be used because it has already been overused. It is just a fact that you cannot escape from.

 

[cnleio]

There is no reason, really, why China would generate fake news about Turkey. It is a far away country with little to nothing strategic contact and small trade and business links. If Chinese government did not really discern/notice Uighur problem and Turkey's state-sanctioned and civilian intervention in its domestic affairs, Beijing would have no reason to be forced to generate a non-issue.
........
The solution is a more secular, pragmatic state-to-state conduct, respecting national sovereignty and putting behind other archaic and anti-sovereignty notions such as ummah or distant racial ties. If China really wanted, it could easily connect the Kurdish in Turkey with one of many small minority groups/languages in China and intervene in your own affairs; that would not really be too hard. If China is not doing this, the reason may be:

1. it does not feel too much bothered;

2. it has its eyes on a bigger prize.

Bro, u just waste time in there ... of course there's the reason, the host feed many "dogs" for their own interest in the region, once stop feed 'food (money etc)' those bad-dogs will bite back, the sad story always like that.

We all see what already happened in Turkey. Those foreign people hired or cheated from other countries to Turkey, some died in Syria War (they will lose the war) some surviving foreign fighters return to Turkey to let off their discontentment in this country. I know China government won't let any Uighur family who ever left XinJiang to Turkey return to China, those "BROTHERS" is Turkey's friend not Chinese.

 

[kankan326]

There is hardly any news about Uygurs in Turkish media, the two terrorists are probably the first Uyghur issue since a year now that made it into Turkish media.

Avarage Turks arent even aware that there are millions of poeple in China speaking the same language as them.

Not far ago, there was a big scale anti-Chinese riot in Turkey because Turks believe China is oppressing their Uygur brothers. How could it happen if what you said is true?

 

[Beast]

Not far ago, there was a big scale anti-Chinese riot in Turkey because Turks believe China is oppressing their Uygur brothers. How could it happen if what you said is true?

They are constant brainwashed by Turkish government with fake lies about Chinese oppressing Uighur in Xinjiang.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ch...isses-turkish-pms-genocide-remarks-2009-07-14

While Turkish will use double standard and claimed they never oppress Kurdish in Turkey. The Kurdish who resist Turkish rule and seek kurdish state are terrorist. If Turkish and Turkish supporter want to talk nonsense about China oppressing Uighur. Be prepare for the criticizing of oppressing Kurdish to bite you back.

Maybe Chinese president Xi shall also question Turkish about oppressing Kurdish and seek an justice for Kurdish. Let the arrogant Turkish to have a taste of your own medicine. China can even raise the stake bigger by supporting Armenian genocide and want Turkey to be responsible for it.

 

[xenon54 out]

It has been reported by the government agency, which is not in the business of trying to grab headlines or generate internet traffic.

No, no names were provided, why would they? It was not a one-liner. It was a succession of news that were covered by the entire media.

http://www.guancha.cn/Third-World/2014_12_11_303075.shtml

http://news.hainan.net/guonei/guoneiliebiao/2015/01/14/2211898.shtml

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post2_8458346_1.html

As said even if they were Turkish citizen it doesnt prove the goverment involvement.

Right? Contradiction in terms, indeed. You may read it as blowback. Those people may be simple Chechnyans or Uzbeks that moved to Turkey for one reason or another. In Turkey, they got radicalized because civil society in Turkey seems to be very conducive to radicalization. Hence, they are domestically radicalized foreigners. I do not think all of them were originally radicals. Turkey government breeds terrorism which hits its own people.

Thats absolutely wrong, if Turks were easy to radicalize they would make up the highest number in jihadist groups in Iraq and Syria since Turkey has one of the biggest populations in the neighboring countries but the opposite is the case, countries like France and UK with a much smaller muslim population sent multiple times more jihadists to Syria than Turkey, so i donk know how you come to this conclusion.

Not far ago, there was a big scale anti-Chinese riot in Turkey because Turks believe China is oppressing their Uygur brothers. How could it happen if what you said is true?

I said theres harly new not theres none, at that time it was reported that China banned fasting so it spread very fast in social media, some people took the opportunity, i wouldnt call it big scale, local at best but it made headlines since they attacked Uyghurs (irony).

 

[Place Of Space]

Guys just throwing this out there....

Do you think someone is trying to sow discord between Turkey and Russia and Turkey and China.

First the Russian ambassador being killed.

Now Chinese Uighurs implicated in this terrorist act.

As to your speculation, Turkey seems to be battlefield of WWIII. Powers are playing there recently. Around its skirt, countries like Ukrain, Syria, Kurdistan, Iraq, Syprus are all hotspots.

 

[The SC]

We have witnessed a putsch attempt in Turkey, followed by many bombings in the big cities, and a Turkish policeman assassinating the Russian ambassador and many other violent acts taking place on almost a daily basis in Turkey,, this leads to conclude that there are anti-government currents in many Turkish institutions that are insiders to Turkish politics and oppose the current government, they might be directed from outside, but the danger emanates from them being insiders..
China and Turkey will investigate these events together since they allegedly involve "Chinese citizens", and "Turkish diplomats, insiders!"..

 

[rcrmj]

One can simply not expect a unbiased post from Chinese (most) that doesnt contain fake news when its about Turkey.

Like that fake passport thing that @TaiShang keeps repeating even thought it has been debunked multiple times.

your attitude is the very root of the attack in Turkey, you supported terrorists and now it fires back
not one news you are getting from West or Turkey is true about Xinjiang. And the outcome is 99% of you lot believe in those garbages, and showing sympathy to radical Uygur terrorists. believe me, there are more attacks will happen in Turkey by those 'poor brothers' of yours``

 

[Jlaw]

I hope that's true. But, even 10% of 75-80 million is a scary number. Just imagine what they are capable of if even a small fraction of them turn to ISIS style terrorism, which is mindless and illogical.



I know them very well. I studied them from their very root in the 20s under al-Banna. I am not sure how close they are to become radical Islamist. These days, it is very difficult to sort them out. Islamist movements became very porous.

Exactly 10% of Turkish citizens support ISIS. 9 million extremists can be a formidable army. That's why I find it funny when they try to downplay the "small " minority extremist card

 

[xenon54 out]

your attitude is the very root of the attack in Turkey, you supported terrorists and now it fires back
not one news you are getting from West or Turkey is true about Xinjiang. And the outcome is 99% of you lot believe in those garbages, and showing sympathy to radical Uygur terrorists. believe me, there are more attacks will happen in Turkey by those 'poor brothers' of yours``

How is my attitude the root of terrorism, have i posted anything in support of terrorism or what, i simply said if you claim something then prove it, can you or can you not?
You are in no position to assume things here.

Exactly 10% of Turkish citizens support ISIS. 9 million extremists can be a formidable army. That's why I find it funny when they try to downplay the "small " minority extremist card

8% according to pew research and that was when isis was fighting ypg which is Syrian wing of pkk and still its one of the lower ones in muslim world.

On the other hand Turkey is one of the muslim countries with highest support for secularism in muslim world, share the whole truth instead of twisting it.

 

[Tractor]

This is a conspiracy made by Russia and Turkey all together.These two countries just want China's west frontier to become a battle field under the name of anti-terrorism which they both have involved in.