2,350 or 3,500 - How Many Nukes Warheads Does China Have?

[marshall]

I actually ran some rough calculations. 12 nukes is like a pinprick on national infrastructure. Without hundreds of warheads you can't do sh!t to a country like US, China, India or Russia. 12 nukes could probably wipe South Korea or Vatican City but not much else.

A single ICBM would bring ANY country to its knees. Even continental scale countries like the USA would be thrown into long-term economic depression and regional disease and famine if the New York City CMA were nuked with a MIRV ICBM. With two dozen MIRV ICBMs, if critical cities along transportation/communication routes were taken out, within 6 months the majority of that country would be starving. In the case of countries like Japan, all you'd need to do is take out Tokyo and Osaka and that country would be finished. More importantly, why is this ridiculous talk of China randomly nuking everybody everywhere even continuing? This strikes me as one of the most retarded message threads I've read in a long time especially given China's defensive military posture. Let's not be dreaming about how many thousands, or dare I say tens of thousands of super duper nuke warheads China has before we start dreaming about how China can commit suicide by nuking everybody around for no reason.

 

[WHF]

China's nuke is quite unique, since Russia/UK/France all had their nuclear technology derived from US.

But China's atomic bomb and H-bomb were all indigenously designed.

---------- Post added at 12:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------



In order to destroy the urban areas and the industrial capability of US, you would need at least 1000 thermonuclear weapons.

And this does not mean to wipe out their entire population.

biggest joke mankind has ever made..must be a product of 102 IQ ..JAHAMPNA TOFU KABOOL KARO..

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

A single ICBM would bring ANY country to its knees. Even continental scale countries like the USA would be thrown into long-term economic depression and regional disease and famine if the New York City CMA were nuked with a MIRV ICBM. With two dozen MIRV ICBMs, if critical cities along transportation/communication routes were taken out, within 6 months the majority of that country would be starving. In the case of countries like Japan, all you'd need to do is take out Tokyo and Osaka and that country would be finished. More importantly, why is this ridiculous talk of China randomly nuking everybody everywhere even continuing? This strikes me as one of the most retarded message threads I've read in a long time especially given China's defensive military posture. Let's not be dreaming about how many thousands, or dare I say tens of thousands of super duper nuke warheads China has before we start dreaming about how China can commit suicide by nuking everybody around for no reason.

lol, nuff to say.

It is a waste of time to keep the discussion.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

biggest joke mankind has ever made..must be a product of 102 IQ ..JAHAMPNA TOFU KABOOL KARO..

Then tell me this Mr.Genius, why China's H-Bomb was not indigenously designed?

 

[marshall]

A single ICBM would bring ANY country to its knees. Even continental scale countries like the USA would be thrown into long-term economic depression and regional disease and famine if the New York City CMA were nuked with a MIRV ICBM.

lol, nuff to say.

It is a waste of time to keep the discussion.

I'm trying to educate you because you are completely ignoring the consequences of these weapons and using speculative propaganda from largely anti-China scare mongering authors as your proof, in the same fashion you use unsubstantiated rumors and speculations from Chinese bbses as proof of China's military developments.

To expand on the NYC example since you so quickly dismissed it, here is what would happen to the USA if a 5-9 warhead MIRV ICBM with yields around 200 kilotons each saturated the New York City CMA. Considering New York City is the financial heart of the United States and headquarter for most of America's largest banks, within 1 hour well over 20 trillion dollars in wealth would evaporate. The entire American banking system would collapse immediately and Americans would be unable to use their credit cards, bank cards, checks, etc, etc. Commerce and business would break down nationwide within 24 hours and spread worldwide. I leave it to those in the know to guess what would happen next. In modern society, things are fragile. Disruptions in modern infrastructure have domino effects that without a strong and disciplined population will always lead to anarchy. I'm not even talking about the physical destruction which by itself would be in the trillions of dollars and millions of lives. These are just some of the systemic problems that would arise, yet you consider it to be a scratch on the surface and claiming thousands of nukes would be needed, which is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[gambit]

A single ICBM would bring ANY country to its knees.

Really?

First...

Interagency Paper on Sound Practices to Strengthen the Resilience of the U.S. Financial System; Release No. 34-47638; April 7, 2003; Business Continuity Planning, BCP

DTCC › The Depository Trust Company (DTC)

After 9/11, not just the US government but just about all the major financial houses like The Depository Trust Company (DTC) took steps to ensure the survivability of the nation's wealth by spreading secured and hardened data centers throughout the land. It is a work in progress but the system does what we intended it to do. How often do financial data are archived and where are secret information on a 'need to know' basis, of course. In fact, this has been in practice before 9/11, pretty much at the start of the Cold War, albeit in less sophisticated form and methods.

Second...

The military response is not -- and has NEVER been -- dependent upon the soundness of the nation's financial and economic system in times of war. What the hell do people think the Cheyenne Mountain Complex -- and other military installations like it -- is for? To survive even a nuclear attack on the country and to respond in kind. It will take a lot more than just a couple thousands nuclear warheads to bring down the US.

 

[golmaal]

Then tell me this Mr.Genius, why China's H-Bomb was not indigenously designed?

Is anything in China called indigenous??

 

[marshall]

Really?

First...

Interagency Paper on Sound Practices to Strengthen the Resilience of the U.S. Financial System; Release No. 34-47638; April 7, 2003; Business Continuity Planning, BCP

DTCC › The Depository Trust Company (DTC)

After 9/11, not just the US government but just about all the major financial houses like The Depository Trust Company (DTC) took steps to ensure the survivability of the nation's wealth by spreading secured and hardened data centers throughout the land. It is a work in progress but the system does what we intended it to do. How often do financial data are archived and where are secret information on a 'need to know' basis, of course. In fact, this has been in practice before 9/11, pretty much at the start of the Cold War, albeit in less sophisticated form and methods.

A saturation MIRV nuking of the New York City CMA would kill all the major heads, first and second level management leadership of all the major American banks and financial institutions. This is akin to a leadership decapitation but to an extreme because it would also decapitate the subordinates and the subordinates subordinates. There is zero probability that the American financial system could avoid TOTAL destruction within weeks given the physical destruction of the financial heartland and probable 95%+ death toll of the financial leadership+subordinates+subordinates subordinates in Manhattan and Stamford, CT. The NYSE and Nasdaq, the world's 1st and 2nd largest stock exchanges, would be destroyed, which would cause a worldwide chain reaction within 24 hours resulting in a worldwide financial catastrophe that would make the Great Depression look like histories greatest economic boom. My earlier estimate of a $20+ trillion financial loss was exceedingly optimistic.

Noded backup of financial data in this situation would be useless, first because interbank transactional accounting would be destroyed and down for who knows how long since all the important people would be dead. Second, nothing would be able to stem the tide anyways as panic engulfed everything immediately while people like you waited for the IT staffs of every effected financial organization to fix things. The latter of course would be absolutely impossible. Financial transactions, accounting and markets are all operating in real time, are international and interdependent.. As well, the longer time passes, the more discrepancies begin to distort the picture. Restoring financial data in this scenario is not like restoring your files after your computer crashes. LOL

Second...

The military response is not -- and has NEVER been -- dependent upon the soundness of the nation's financial and economic system in times of war. What the hell do people think the Cheyenne Mountain Complex -- and other military installations like it -- is for? To survive even a nuclear attack on the country and to respond in kind. It will take a lot more than just a couple thousands nuclear warheads to bring down the US.

The United States as a nation would be unrecognizable a few short months after a MIRV nuclear attack on the New York City CMA. That's the whole point of MAD deterrence. It was never about scorching every square inch of an opponents soil but rather about mutual terror to prevent a nuclear exchange to begin with. What I find disturbing about that guy saying China should nuke every single country surrounding it, if China were nuked by only 1 opponent, is that this sort of opinion was popular back in the Cold War days, think the movie "War Games"....where strategists theorized that WWIII would engulf the world as soon as a single nuclear exchange began between 2 individual enemies. In today's world, the sorts of military pacts that made these Cold War scenarios possible no longer exist, especially in China's case. To insinuate that nuclear countries should randomly nuke countries so they don't take over the spoils is very childish and just plain stooopid.

 

[gambit]

A saturation MIRV nuking of the New York City CMA would kill all the major heads, first and second level management leadership of all the major American banks and financial institutions. This is akin to a leadership decapitation but to an extreme because it would also decapitate the subordinates and the subordinates subordinates. There is zero probability that the American financial system could avoid TOTAL destruction within weeks given the physical destruction of the financial heartland and probable 95%+ death toll of the financial leadership+subordinates+subordinates subordinates in Manhattan and Stamford, CT. The NYSE and Nasdaq, the world's 1st and 2nd largest stock exchanges, would be destroyed, which would cause a worldwide chain reaction within 24 hours resulting in a worldwide financial catastrophe that would make the Great Depression look like histories greatest economic boom. My earlier estimate of a $20+ trillion financial loss was exceedingly optimistic.

Noded backup of financial data in this situation would be useless, first because interbank transactional accounting would be destroyed and down for who knows how long since all the important people would be dead. Second, nothing would be able to stem the tide anyways as panic engulfed everything immediately while people like you waited for the IT staffs of every effected financial organization to fix things. The latter of course would be absolutely impossible. Financial transactions, accounting and markets are all operating in real time, are international and interdependent.. As well, the longer time passes, the more discrepancies begin to distort the picture. Restoring financial data in this scenario is not like restoring your files after your computer crashes. LOL



The United States as a nation would be unrecognizable a few short months after a MIRV nuclear attack on the New York City CMA. That's the whole point of MAD deterrence. It was never about scorching every square inch of an opponents soil but rather about mutual terror to prevent a nuclear exchange to begin with. What I find disturbing about that guy saying China should nuke every single country surrounding it, if China were nuked by only 1 opponent, is that this sort of opinion was popular back in the Cold War days, think the movie "War Games"....where strategists theorized that WWIII would engulf the world as soon as a single nuclear exchange began between 2 individual enemies. In today's world, the sorts of military pacts that made these Cold War scenarios possible no longer exist, especially in China's case. To insinuate that nuclear countries should randomly nuke countries so they don't take over the spoils is very childish and just plain stooopid.

It is always entertaining reading crap like this.

First...How did al-Qaeda succeeded on 9/11?

Because the US was LESS concerned of a non-state agent using unconventional means of attacks than of state led or even merely sponsored assaults on US using conventional weapons.

After 9/11, the US government initiated a program of ensuring the financial data integrity of the American economy by demanding brokerages and banks to have off-site data record backups on non-electronic media like CD/DVD in what is called 'crisis proof' storage methods similar to hardened bomb shelters and along with them non-electronic -- paper -- documentations outlining procedures on how to RESUME business once said crisis is over. The issue is not about real-time continuation of finance and commerce but about preservation of fundamental data that enable modern day business and international trade. So yes, there will be the inevitable data loss of the immediate business transactions at the moment of attack -- assuming a surprise attack -- but the foundation of the modern economy is ALREADY preserved.

Which lead us to the Second point...Were there signs that Hitler was going to attack Poland?

Germany's blitzkrieg was more about the technical aspects of a military operation than it was about the political nature of Hitler's Germany. Europe was already nervous of a militant Germany, especially after Hitler became Chancellor.

So is it likely that a SURPRISE decapitation strike can be inflicted upon US? No.

Inter-state relations will signal tensions and signs leading to an armed conflict long before a state can order highly controlled and technically demanding weapons like nuclear missiles to be launched. Part of the reason why al-Qaeda succeeded was because no one consider an airliner to be a weapon and we still do not so consider. The US government already had 'Continuity Of Government' (COG) procedures long before 9/11, which includes continuity of the economy once the military crisis has passed.

Just as a political leadership decapitation strike will not collapse the government, as in when JFK was assassinated, an economic decapitation strike will not collapse the American economy, especially when there are procedures in place for that possibility and when there are increased economic and financial data security procedures currently in play behind the scenes. Inter-state tensions that could lead to war between nuclear powers like a hypothetical US against China will have those procedures activated and data retention and security accelerated.

In this hypothetical nuclear exchange between US and China, China does not have nuclear parity to ensure that the US will not survive. The Internet was designed to survive a nuclear war and as long as electricity exist, preserved vital economic data will restart the US economy while China will be locked out of that method. We will be victorious and resume driving automobiles while the Chinese will quite near literally 'nuked' back to the Stone Age. Or may be Bronze.

 

[SinoChallenger]

If you live in a population center with more than 30,000, it is unlikely you will survive a full scale Chinese attack. We have at least 300 MIRVed ICBM / SLBM, and even more on cruise missiles and intercontinental bombers.

It is even less likely that, you, a Mongoloid, would possibly want to survive a US-China nuclear exchange.

 

[gambit]

It is even less likely that, you, a Mongoloid, would possibly want to survive a US-China nuclear exchange.

A Chinese resorting to a racial argument. How predictable...

 

[RockyX]

What does it matter few hundred or thousand ?? Russia (USSR) had more than 40,000 and U.S. had more than 30,000 nuke stockpiles around 2 decades back. Even Russia has Tsar Bomba. Single Tsar bomba which can yield 100 megatons (Hydrogen Bomb). Still, Russia lost the game. If that is the criteria, Russia or U.S. can destroy whole world. Even Israel can destroy whole Middle-East in a single day. High no. of Nuke doesn't give any security and guarantee of winning the game.

Even today, U.S. and Russia have around 30,000 combined i suppose. But still 95%-98% money is going in conventional war which explains everything.

 

[marshall]

It is always entertaining reading crap like this.

First...How did al-Qaeda succeeded on 9/11?

Because the US was LESS concerned of a non-state agent using unconventional means of attacks than of state led or even merely sponsored assaults on US using conventional weapons.

After 9/11, the US government initiated a program of ensuring the financial data integrity of the American economy by demanding brokerages and banks to have off-site data record backups on non-electronic media like CD/DVD in what is called 'crisis proof' storage methods similar to hardened bomb shelters and along with them non-electronic -- paper -- documentations outlining procedures on how to RESUME business once said crisis is over. The issue is not about real-time continuation of finance and commerce but about preservation of fundamental data that enable modern day business and international trade. So yes, there will be the inevitable data loss of the immediate business transactions at the moment of attack -- assuming a surprise attack -- but the foundation of the modern economy is ALREADY preserved.

The scenario was never about surprise attack. It was a response to somebody suggesting China should nuke everybody around it in the event it was saturation nuked by a single enemy. The hypothetical scenario was meant to demonstrate how MAD works because he clearly doesn't understand what nuclear weapons can do to a country and obviously neither do you.

It is impossible to store & restore the real time transactions of international financial flows which accrue to many trillions of dollars daily. If you include the time it would take to restore financial data back to "normal"...something which is clearly impossible despite what you're claiming, the systemic distortions in the financial industry would have already transpired and caused the total and complete collapse of the American banking system. Do you realize what the total collapse of a banking system would do to America? Posting inane messages about thousands of nukes being needed to put some hurt into America is a "little bit" dumb, just a teensy bit.

It would be impossible to piece the financial system back together into any semblance of a fluid working industry because virtually the entire financial/banking leadership of the entire country would be wiped out simultaneously and the physical infrastructure of New York City gone. Nobody who is anybody would be left to rebuild. Your example of JFK being efficiently replaced with his subordinate wouldn't happen because JFK is only 1 man. The New York City CMA is the financial heart of the United States composed of tens of thousands of industry personnel and the de facto financial/economic capital of the Western world. There would be no smooth transition ala...JFK like you are insinuating, not by a longshot.

Which lead us to the Second point...Were there signs that Hitler was going to attack Poland?

Germany's blitzkrieg was more about the technical aspects of a military operation than it was about the political nature of Hitler's Germany. Europe was already nervous of a militant Germany, especially after Hitler became Chancellor.

So is it likely that a SURPRISE decapitation strike can be inflicted upon US? No.

Inter-state relations will signal tensions and signs leading to an armed conflict long before a state can order highly controlled and technically demanding weapons like nuclear missiles to be launched. Part of the reason why al-Qaeda succeeded was because no one consider an airliner to be a weapon and we still do not so consider. The US government already had 'Continuity Of Government' (COG) procedures long before 9/11, which includes continuity of the economy once the military crisis has passed.

Just as a political leadership decapitation strike will not collapse the government, as in when JFK was assassinated, an economic decapitation strike will not collapse the American economy, especially when there are procedures in place for that possibility and when there are increased economic and financial data security procedures currently in play behind the scenes. Inter-state tensions that could lead to war between nuclear powers like a hypothetical US against China will have those procedures activated and data retention and security accelerated.

In this hypothetical nuclear exchange between US and China, China does not have nuclear parity to ensure that the US will not survive. The Internet was designed to survive a nuclear war and as long as electricity exist, preserved vital economic data will restart the US economy while China will be locked out of that method. We will be victorious and resume driving automobiles while the Chinese will quite near literally 'nuked' back to the Stone Age. Or may be Bronze.

You are assuming the Americans would have advance notice of when and where they would/could be nuked. The problem with this mentality is that you are trying to introduce rational strategy into what is an intrinsically irrational war. That was the whole point of the message thread but you missed it because of your defensive attitude. This is a discussion about MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction). I can assure you that an enemy would not attack the US first since it would ensure its own destruction. There is no question that America would be the aggressor and instigator in any nuclear exchange. The obvious and only response to an American preemptive nuclear attack would be to immediately nuke the New York City CMA as soon as possible. Of course the US would do more physical destruction and China knows it. So, why hasn't China gone on a very loud and very public nuclear missile building spree? I think it's pretty obvious that the Chinese and American leadership understand what MAD means to them. The American way of life would be over the moment the President pressed the red button.

 

[feilong]

Guys guessed what the new US AHW (Advance Hypersonic Weapons) is a stolen technologies from the Russian technologies. Which Indian said the US don't steal technologies? Russian have new aircraft defense system which can intercept this US technologies at any speed. Look Indian, does your PAPA USA don't steal the anyone technologies? Maybe US stole the DF21D technologies from china as well, because DF21D is a Hypersonic Advance to Kill US carrier only. So probably China can fix a little here and then to DF21D it could hit any target on this planet within 30 minutes as it could speed Mach 10-20 or so.