1st Indian Hawk Trainer crashes

[Imran Khan]

and how many F16 crashed in paf since induct in paf

 

[Keysersoze]

Su-30 Crash rate of IAF is zero, since their induction in all their version wheather MK or MKI, not even single mishap have happened as yet.

A better comparison would be the mirage 2000's and the mig 29's

The MKI's only arrived in 2002 and from what we hear most of them are grounded at the moment anyway. Give it time and I am sure they will be added to the list

 

[fatman17]

and how many F16 crashed in paf since induct in paf

since 1982 till date it has been 26 years of F-16A/B operations. losses have been 8 including 1 lost due to "own goal" = 0.30 a/c losses / year or 1 a/c per every 3 years of operations or it can be calculated on per 1,000 hrs of operations.

 

[Muradk]

Isn't the backseat pilot supposed to eject first? I've heard the backseat pilot would be fried if the frontseat pilot ejected first.

Or is it the other way round?

No you are right the
back seat goes out first then the front seat. If the front guys goes out first than the back seat pilot will come out as a roast duck. the front seat rockets will burn the back seat pilot.

 

[Goodperson]

A better comparison would be the mirage 2000's and the mig 29's

The MKI's only arrived in 2002 and from what we hear most of them are grounded at the moment anyway. Give it time and I am sure they will be added to the list

You are wrong there are lots of sorties carried out with MKI in everyday in western India.

 

[Neo]

You are wrong there are lots of sorties carried out with MKI in everyday in western India.

According to my reliable source only 10-12 are flying due severe shortage of spareparts.

 

[Muradk]

According to my reliable source only 10-12 are flying due severe shortage of spareparts.

how can you run out of spare parts of a new plane. May be BAE has not got there payment. If the BAE was waiting for the indians to make the spares than they should know in the last 20 years HAL made only one thing without any Israeli help or Russian help which actually worked GPS's.

 

[Neo]

how can you run out of spare parts of a new plane. May be BAE has not got there payment. If the BAE was waiting for the indians to make the spares than they should know in the last 20 years HAL made only one thing without any Israeli help or Russian help which actually worked GPS's.

I was referring to the MKI Sir, not the Hawk. Russia once again is having problems with supplying spares for both MKI and MKM.

 

[JEFF]

A better comparison would be the mirage 2000's and the mig 29's

As far as Mig-29 is concerned according IAF only 13 have crashed which is not that bad with its two decades of deployment and one of the hard hitted by spare parts and engine problem on accounts of Soviet break up and faulty Hasty production standard adopted by soviets during their export.

The MKI's only arrived in 2002

Mr. Keyseroze, I failed to see what kind of significent difference did you seen in MKI and MK version.

But still MKI is a part of Sukhoi-30 which is being flown by the IAF I guess since 1996, morever familirity with Su-30MK have made IAF pilots competant enough to handle MKI more swiftly then ever before.

and from what we hear most of them are grounded at the moment anyway.

Yes recently because of their Tyre problem, but according to IAF chief many of MKI from only PUNE squadran have been grounded but that is not an big issue as compared to what we had in case of Mig-29 experience. Even something like F-15 inspite of having due care and world class maintenance services can be grounded in huge number then I don't think MKI is an big exception to it.

On the face of it, it is quite good to hear that IAF is taking due precaution in the prohibition of crashes and recent news of grounding some MKI is one such impeccable example of IAF's vigilance over spare parts issue.

Give it time and I am sure they will be added to the list

So are you actually praying for MKI to meet with mishap? but also do keep in mind regarding saftey standard being adopted by IAF which has demonstrated dramatic reduction in aircraft crashes.

 

[fatman17]

New Indian Hawk crashes during take-off

Gareth Jennings Jane's Aviation Reporter - London

An Indian Air Force (IAF) BAE Systems Hawk Mk 132 advanced jet trainer (AJT) aircraft crashed while taking off on 29 April.

The two-seat aircraft came down near the Air Force Academy at Bidar, approximately 129 km from the city of Hyderabad in the Andhra Pradesh region of the country. One crew member ejected safely and another reportedly survived the crash.

The cause of the accident is not yet known and the IAF has launched an investigation. Preliminary reports suggest that it may have been a result of a technical malfunction.

According to a local media report, the IAF is unhappy with the build quality of some of its new Hawks. A BAE Systems spokesperson told Jane's that there have been some "small issues" with the IAF's new Hawk aircraft and that the company is working closely with the IAF to resolve these.

On 19 May Indian Defence Secretary Vijay Singh is due to arrive in London to discuss the issue with the UK Ministry of Defence.

As regards the loss of the Hawk AJT, the BAE Systems spokesperson told Jane's that the company is "aware of the incident", adding: "We will fully support the Indian Air Force and Indian Ministry of Defence in any investigation they undertake and until any official investigation is complete it would be inappropriate for anyone to speculate on the cause of the incident."

The IAF took delivery of the first eight of 66 Hawk AJT aircraft in February to replace its HAL HJT-16 Kiran I/IA/II jet trainer aircraft that have been in service since 1968.

Indian Defence Minister A K Antony revealed on 30 April that the IAF has lost 61 aircraft and 30 pilots in accidents since 2003. He added that measures to enhance the quality of training to improve pilot skill levels, their ability to exercise sound judgement and their situational awareness are being pursued.

He said that the Indian government is working with aircraft manufacturers "to overcome the technical defects of aircraft" as well as introducing anti-bird-strike measures in a bid to reduce the country's high accident rate.

The Hawk AJT is replacing the IAF’s ageing fleet of HAL HJT-16 Kiran I/IA/II jet trainer aircraft (Jane’s/Patrick Allen)
1327163

 

[x_man]

Old or new, good or bad, military or commercial: till the time planes are flying, they will keep falling from the sky. At the sound of it, this particular Hawk crash could be due to bird hit at takeoff, compressor stall (because somebody mention loud bang during take-off roll), tyre failure just before rotation (with possible loss of direction) or could be inadvertent ejection by the front occupant (rare but possible: happened in PAF too) or F.O.D (foreign object damage) or it could be anything else totally strange…..aircrafts do have sense of humour of their own..

Hawk has been flying for last 30 years from Australia to Middle East to Canada and its systems are very much tried and tested over decades. I am sure Indians (and BAE) will find the cause of this particular crash OR ELSE, as a general rule in worldwide Aviation Industry (both military and commercial), if nothing concrete shows up in inquiry or any other cover-up is intended :: Blame the damn Aircrew.

 

[BATMAN]

You are wrong there are lots of sorties carried out with MKI in everyday in western India.

IAF to set up centralised BRD

New Delhi, May 4 (PTI) Worried over recurring shortage of spares and other vital parts for its imported fighters, transport and helicopter fleet, Indian Air Force has proposed setting up of a Base Repair Depot (BRD) exclusively for indigenisation.
The proposal submitted by the Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal F H Major has been approved by the government and an amount of Rs 100 crore is initially proposed to be utilised for setting up the state-of-art production facilities for the depot.

A board of officers finalised the detailed plan to set up of the BRD which would come up at Devlali in Maharashtra.

"It is an effort to centralise all tasks of indigenisation of vital spares for our air combat assests", a top IAF officer told PTI.

The move by the IAF comes at a time when the force is only able to keep airworthy between 60-70 per cent of its fleet.

For quite a long time fighters like Sukhoi 30 MKI, various variants of MIG's, transport aircraft like IL-76, AN-32 and large number of helicopters have been grounded for non-availability of spares. PTI

 

[JEFF]

IAF to set up centralised BRD

I guess you provided source itself more then enough to substantiate the claims of Goodperson as far as IAF's assurance about opertionability of 60-70% fleet.

 

[Goodperson]

IAF already has BRD in Pune, What I told earlier was what I saw not posted from any media.

 

[BAeJOHN]

Depending on if the rear cockpit is set to master, the ejection seat firing can be seperate!!

I work for BAE on Hawk i do know how the systems work!

The Indians are trying to find every little thing so they get money back or they are not signing for C of I on time so we have to pay them so much back!

The smallest of discolouration on fuel pipes were they have been welded and they are saying it is rust, which is probably were this 'Brough are fitting 2nd hand parts' Bulls**T has come from.

Any issues with Pitot probes have been dealt with as they came untreated from Vendor and the 2 hawks that had issues in country have been replaced along time ago.

The A/C in question has been in country since October/November, and has been flying 2 to 3 sorties a day since February!

I have no doubt in my mind that this will be aircrew at fault or somthing to do with poor maintenance on the IAF's Part.

I mean HAL are still building there own Jags which theyve been on with god knows how many decades. One of our managers was at HAL and walked into the Jag hangar and he said i didnt know you did return to works Jaguars! They said we dont these are new! Thats how bad they are!