1971 War: How Russia sank Nixon’s gunboat diplomacy

[NeutralCitizen]

And for the sake of those "few" laughs, they are suffering even to this day! Where as Russia is licking it's paws to regain it's super-power status.

True Pakistan is in danger of collapsing, however Russia will need a boost in it's population and need to modernize it's military. you cannot be a Superpower when your population is dying.

 

[StormShadow]

True Pakistan is in danger of collapsing, however Russia will need a boost in it's population and need to modernize it's military. you cannot be a Superpower when your population is dying.

Russian military modernization has already started and it is pretty decently supported by it's economy. It may take time to retain their past glory...but surely they will. And regarding population...lollz they wont be an extinct breed in the next decade!!! It will also improve.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

Russian military modernization has already started and it is pretty decently supported by it's economy. It may take time to retain their past glory...but surely they will.

Russia current Defense industry is old and only for profit, not to mention russia needs a new generation of engineers and scientist, most of them designing weapons are in their 50's and 60's and Russia is suffering a massive Brain Drain, like I said you cannot be a Superpower when most of your population and Talent is leaving to go live in Europe, Canada, or the USA.

 

[StormShadow]

Russia current Defense industry is old and only for profit, not to mention russia needs a new generation of engineers and scientist, most of them designing weapons are in their 50's and 60's and Russia is suffering a massive Brain Drain, like I said you cannot be a Superpower when most of your population and Talent is leaving to go live in Europe, Canada, or the USA.

Maybe...but regarding the bolden part, why cant we think that the younger breed of Russians are working in the west and are bringing western tech back home to Russia which was limited traditionally to the soviet tech?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Washington, December 10, 1971, 10:51am.
A week later the war is not going very well for Pakistan, as Indian armour scythes through East Pakistan and the Pakistan Air Force is blown out of the subcontinent’s sky. Meanwhile, the Pakistani military in the west is demoralised and on the verge of collapse as the Indian Army and Air Force attack round the clock.

Really what were the losses of IAF vs PAF? East Pakistan had 1 ageing f-86 sqd,no radar coverage and an attack ratio of 1:10 indian jets.... jet PAF kicked IAFs behind out of the sky...........

Plus ammo starved Pak army suffering from mutiny,civil war,3 lac + mukti terrorists and indian army...


As for USSR... look where it is today? i dnt see the bloody soviets today!

 

[Big Boss]

Mother Russia

 

[NeutralCitizen]

Maybe...but regarding the bolden part, why cant we think that the younger breed of Russians are working in the west and are bringing western tech back home to Russia which was limited traditionally to the soviet tech?

If that was the case they would have years ago, Most leave for better life in the West, Political or Economic Reasons, Russia has massive corruption not to mention Media is state controlled, The Russian population at the collapse of the USSR was 149 now 141 the 8 million that left had plenty of time to come back yet they have not.

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

Really what were the losses of IAF vs PAF? East Pakistan had 1 ageing f-86 sqd,no radar coverage and an attack ratio of 1:10 indian jets.... jet PAF kicked IAFs behind out of the sky...........

Plus ammo starved Pak army suffering from mutiny,civil war,3 lac + mukti terrorists and indian army...


As for USSR... look where it is today? i dnt see the bloody soviets today!

There was no way you could have defended East Pakistan without Nuclear Weapons, The Chinese could not have entered the war due to being heavily involved in Vietnam, remember Vietnam war, Pakistan would have lost East Pakistan not matter how hard you tried because of where it was located and not to mention surrounded by India by 3 sides.

 

[StormShadow]

Really what were the losses of IAF vs PAF? East Pakistan had 1 ageing f-86 sqd,no radar coverage and an attack ratio of 1:10 indian jets.... jet PAF kicked IAFs behind out of the sky...........

Why are you considering only east pakistan's air fleet? Consider the whole PAF which fought the war. And not to mention the help from Jordan, turkey, saudi,us etc as the report mentions.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

There was no way Pakistan could have defended East Pakistan without Nuclear Weapons, The Chinese could not have entered the war due to being heavily involved in Vietnam, remember Vietnam war, Pakistan would have lost East Pakistan not matter how hard you tried because of where it was located and not to mention surrounded by India by 3 sides.

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

if you had developed Nuclear weapons in the 60's maybe you had a chance however the past is the past.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why are you considering only east pakistan's air fleet? Consider the whole PAF which fought the war. And not to mention the help from Jordan, turkey, saudi,us etc as the report mentions.

First of all im considering the whole kill ratio of PAF vs IAF in 71... IAF despite having numerical and tech advantages still lost much more jets than PAF.... as for jordanians,turkey,ksa jets... can you provide specific facts?

---------- Post added at 12:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 AM ----------

There was no way Pakistan could have defended East Pakistan without Nuclear Weapons, The Chinese could not have entered the war due to being heavily involved in Vietnam, remember Vietnam war, Pakistan would have lost East Pakistan not matter how hard you tried because of where it was located and not to mention surrounded by India by 3 sides.

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

if you had developed Nuclear weapons in the 60's maybe you had a chance however the past is the past.

We developed nukes in 84.... which indians never thought would ever happen.... you could see their statements after indians nuclear tests... about accepting indian hegemony and threatening Pakistan...


As for mother russia... good riddence...They deserved it!

 

[NeutralCitizen]

First of all im considering the whole kill ratio of PAF vs IAF in 71... IAF despite having numerical and tech advantages still lost much more jets than PAF.... as for jordanians,turkey,ksa jets... can you provide specific facts?

---------- Post added at 12:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 AM ----------



We developed nukes in 84.... which indians never thought would ever happen.... you could see their statements after indians nuclear tests... about accepting indian hegemony and threatening Pakistan...


As for mother russia... good riddence...They deserved it!

You missed your chance to win Kashmir, you should have started it during 1962 after the Sino-Indian conflict or during it. 1971 would have been a Good time for China to capture South Tibet however they were involved in Vietnam and other issues. 1971 is over worry about the future not the past if you stay to long in the past you cannot move on, Bengalis have moved on from 1971 however Pakistani's still have not moved from the traumatic loss.

 

[praveen007]

Really what were the losses of IAF vs PAF? East Pakistan had 1 ageing f-86 sqd,no radar coverage and an attack ratio of 1:10 indian jets.... jet PAF kicked IAFs behind out of the sky...........

Plus ammo starved Pak army suffering from mutiny,civil war,3 lac + mukti terrorists and indian army...


As for USSR... look where it is today? i dnt see the bloody soviets today!

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read this diary blog of and officer of IAF who was posted in HALWARA in 1971 war.
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And locate Halwara in map of India you will see it toword a base in Rajasthan and read that article where he mentioned the air superiority impose by India over Pakistan during 1971 war..
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...,..,,.,,.,,....
Halwara 1971 « TKS' Tales

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You missed your chance to win Kashmir, you should have started it during 1962 after the Sino-Indian conflict or during it. 1971 would have been a Good time for China to capture South Tibet however they were involved in Vietnam and other issues. 1971 is over worry about the future not the past if you stay to long in the past you cannot move on, Bengalis have moved on from 1971 however Pakistani's still have not moved from the traumatic loss.

True we should have gone ahead in 62!.......... and yes we still feel the loss of 71....

 

[StormShadow]

First of all im considering the whole kill ratio of PAF vs IAF in 71... IAF despite having numerical and tech advantages still lost much more jets than PAF

Numerical advantage..yes. But technical??? NEVER.

as for jordanians,turkey,ksa jets... can you provide specific facts?

It is mentioned in the above report and also highlited...go thru it.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

True we should have gone ahead in 62!.......... and yes we still feel the loss of 71....

1965 was when your economy tanked 1962 is when you should have went for the kill, as you can make up for the 1971 loss with your western Neighbor you play your cards right you could win big.