1971 India Pakistan War: Role of Russia, China, America and Britain.

[Mysticbuddy]

Aren't 2 candidates left Hillary and Trump. Any you take care

They have won primaries. They still have to go for convention.

 

[Mav3rick]

Sir, that is called maturity. Waging war after knowing that we will win is never a victory. India's hands were forced in 1971 war. If you had kept all your genocide, raping and killing within your borders why is India going to interfere ? Your people came across the border seeking India's help, help was served. That's all. Pakistan lost to India which just came to 'help'. Imagine if India comes at you with an intention to 'win'. Every country should know its place.

I agree with the first part of your post, you were indeed requested to help and your participation, and the end result, was nothing more then your assistance to MB or local insurgents which outgrew Pakistan's resistance. Ofcourse, it was failure from our side, so far all neutral assesment indicates that we mistreated Bengali nation and so they had every right to fight for their rights.

However, coming to the 2nd part of your post, I can assure you that had you any iota of exception of victory over Pakistan Army, you would have crossed the border in '99 and again in '01. So, as you very rightly said, you did know your place and you made the right choice!

 

[khujliwal]

So much derailment here, so in the aftermath there was more than Tamil cause in Indira's mind when LTTE was created. Payback for decades.

 

[dray]

<sigh!>

There is a point up to which one can stand by one's blood brothers. When they talk like bozos, they have to be put in their place - or, better still, for the hysterical lot that they are, ignored.

Those stories you related above - are they serious? I feel gobsmacked.

Yes, these are often repeated stories in BD section, and they are dead serious every time, especially the 'Jamati brigade'.

There are many other conspiracy theories floating around there, the one or two below are recent samples:

https://defence.pk/threads/season-2...-5-503-billion-usd.433295/page-5#post-8367877

https://defence.pk/threads/open-intervention-in-bangladesh.435613/page-3#post-8401835

You can also check the 2nd thread from the beginning. Bangladesh is allegedly recruiting Indians in large numbers in Bangladesh army and police services.

Check the Crusader 100 also:

 

[Mysticbuddy]

Yes, these are often repeated stories in BD section, and they are dead serious every time, especially the 'Jamati brigade'.

There are many other conspiracy theories floating around there, the one or two below are recent samples:

https://defence.pk/threads/season-2...-5-503-billion-usd.433295/page-5#post-8367877

https://defence.pk/threads/open-intervention-in-bangladesh.435613/page-3#post-8401835

You can also check the 2nd thread from the beginning. Bangladesh is allegedly recruiting Indians in Bangladesh army and police services.

Check the Crusader 100 also:

The video is in like alien language.

 

[BetterPakistan]

It was Pakistan that ran to ran to US. Indian pm rejected a cease fire until India gets back it's land. Infact Indian pm refused to travel to US.

Really? Better read history kid

No, he is calling you and @Major d1 ill educated and brainwashed. Try not to be disingenuous.

Actually, you are an illiterate and your friend too.

I believe that I do know how to talk. It is just that I cannot suffer fools gladly.



I called you an idiot not because I can't prove my claims. I have in the very recent past proved every one of them. If some ignorant newbie comes on the scene and starts throwing his nonsensical theories around, after giving him a chance once, perhaps twice, why should I not put him in his place?



No. You don't act wise. All your facts were wrong. And you deserve, therefore, to be criticised for not finding out the facts. Looking at stupid YouTube videos is not a substitute for looking up trustworthy references. That makes you smart, in fact, over smart, not wise.



Lt. General Kishan Pal was caught with his pants down, tried lying his way out of the situation, and in any other army, in such a situation, would have been court-martialled. Doing that to him would have been to incriminate his GOC-in-C to some extent, for less than satisfactory supervision, and would have damaged the reputation of the COAS, who had been playing golf abroad when the crisis blew up. He was whitewashed, a very responsible and effective Brigadier was made a scapegoat, and Kishan Pal has spent the rest of his life spinning every kind of story that would put him in a less vulnerable, less culpable position. It is a different matter that the cover-up failed; such things do not survive in an open democracy like India.



If you delve into the facts, only three Pakistani generals knew about Kargil, and they are hardly likely to incriminate themselves. The facts were wide open on the Indian side, however, which is why a cover-up by those responsible was not possible.



The criticism was not about his taking over the government, but about jumping into an extremely dangerous misadventure against an extremely dangerous enemy. And he was proved wrong, which left him vulnerable to attack by Nawaz Sharif. Everybody knows what followed.

Look oldy, it was you who called me idiot first despite the fact that you says you are 66 years old. Despite being that much old you are not even mature about how to talk. You are really disgusting.

Go and read history. Gen Pal was a part of kargil not only he but VK singh praised musharraf for his bravery and accepted that musharraf crossed LOC and we were not able to stop him. Your own country has accepted that India lost 587 lives. Point 5353 is a prime example which is still in Pak control even after 16 years of war.

I think you take lot of medicines due to which your mind do not work properly. Better eat a sleeping pill and go to sleep.

You you mean to say that you guys are still having kargil?

Man, Pakistan did the worst by not even accepting dead bodies of there own soldiers. I respect India for this they gave them full respect even when Pakistan refused.

India lost and accepted that India lost 587 lives while Pakistan accepted those brave 350-400 Pak soldiers which we lost and the rest were freedom fighters not part of Pakistan Army.

Are you aware PAF is not in position to interfere in the conflict? When your target is 100% .. but the outcome is around 75% of what you expecte.. you consider your self failed to reach objective.. If pak is in strong position on all these occupied IA posts.. pak will never move back.. but the reality is otherwise.. pak is isolated internationally not in position to continue war.. India increasing its fire power ... due to all these events .. pak withdraw from kargil...

First of all go and have English classes to enhance your tenses because they are really poor.

Second thing your own general accepted Indian defeat. Your govt accepted that you lost 587 lives. No one supported you in kargil when you lost. Go and have English classes first than read history.

Since you came across as a poor student, let me spoon feed you.

1. Gen VK Singh was talking about an incident where Gen Musharraf sneaked into Indian territory once, he was not talking about Kargil war, and Gen Musharraf is good at sneaking in and out of enemy territories and lost battlefields. He was probably the only Pakistani army officer who could sneak out of the battlefield in 1971 war and escaped from ending up as PoW of Indian army. You have to give credit where due.

2. Lt. Gen. Kishan Pal basically said that India won the Kargil war but failed to consolidate the victory politically and diplomatically. Our victory in 1971 war is also criticized for this failure, but that doesn't mean that our military didn't won the wars for the country by convincingly defeating the enemy.

Poor me? You are really miserable about the lost of kargil. You know what, you seems to be a pathetic one to me.

Gen VK singh accepted that Musharraf crossed LOC before kargil and spent a night in kargil and we were not able to do anything. During Kargil Pakistan shot down 1 fighter jet, 1 helicopter and 1 fighter jet was crashed by Pak which entered into Pakistan soil and Pak military gen openly entered into your occupied part and you watched it but did nothing which reflects everything that you need to understand.

Gen Pal said that "I can't say that we won the war". He stated we lost 587 lives. He also stated about those checkposts which India lost and is in Pak control like Point 5353. Better go and watch his interviews. He also stated the loss which India suffered.

 

[danger007]

ŕrirt

Really? Better read history kid



Actually, you are an illiterate and your friend too.



Look oldy, it was you who called me idiot first despite the fact that you says you are 66 years old. Despite being that much old you are not even mature about how to talk. You are really disgusting.

Go and read history. Gen Pal was a part of kargil not only he but VK singh praised musharraf for his bravery and accepted that musharraf crossed LOC and we were not able to stop him. Your own country has accepted that India lost 587 lives. Point 5353 is a prime example which is still in Pak control even after 16 years of war.

I think you take lot of medicines due to which your mind do not work properly. Better eat a sleeping pill and go to sleep.



India lost and accepted that India lost 587 lives while Pakistan accepted those brave 350-400 Pak soldiers which we lost and the rest were freedom fighters not part of Pakistan Army.



First of all go and have English classes to enhance your tenses because they are really poor.

Second thing your own general accepted Indian defeat. Your govt accepted that you lost 587 lives. No one supported you in kargil when you lost. Go and have English classes first than read history.



Poor me? You are really miserable about the lost of kargil. You know what, you seems to be a pathetic one to me.

Gen VK singh accepted that Musharraf crossed LOC before kargil and spent a night in kargil and we were not able to do anything. During Kargil Pakistan shot down 1 fighter jet, 1 helicopter and 1 fighter jet was crashed by Pak which entered into Pakistan soil and Pak military gen openly entered into your occupied part and you watched it but did nothing which reflects everything that you need to understand.

Gen Pal said that "I can't say that we won the war". He stated we lost 587 lives. He also stated about those checkposts which India lost and is in Pak control like Point 5353. Better go and watch his interviews. He also stated the loss which India suffered.

I guess, I don't need anything... I did Ph.d and doing business.. probably you are unable to answer me.. are you out of your mind? you might be new member here but im not.. we discussed about this matter to death.. what are you trying to say? pak won kargil?

 

[dray]

Poor me? You are really miserable about the lost of kargil. You know what, you seems to be a pathetic one to me.

Gen VK singh accepted that Musharraf crossed LOC before kargil and spent a night in kargil and we were not able to do anything. During Kargil Pakistan shot down 1 fighter jet, 1 helicopter and 1 fighter jet was crashed by Pak which entered into Pakistan soil and Pak military gen openly entered into your occupied part and you watched it but did nothing which reflects everything that you need to understand.

Gen Pal said that "I can't say that we won the war". He stated we lost 587 lives. He also stated about those checkposts which India lost and is in Pak control like Point 5353. Better go and watch his interviews. He also stated the loss which India suffered.

Go through the videos that you have posted again and again, turn the volume high and listen to them carefully, maybe write the content down on a paper and read it 20 times, and spare yourself from setting new standards of shamelessness.

In the mean time, I am putting you on ignore list.

 

[Kaniska]

Dear in today's time if india has 50 percent chance of winning against us they would have attacked us especially modi government but since their is no chance and i don't believe this report if America really had helped than their won't be any india

Just tell me some good reason, if also we have capability, India will attack Pakistan...Then i will respond to you rest of the useless rants...

 

[peagus]

Really? Better read history kid



Probably u must have read special history books printed exclusively for Pakistan. Check your facts who went running to US. It was Nawaz not the Indian pm

 

[Dawood Ibrahim]

Just tell me some good reason, if also we have capability, India will attack Pakistan...Then i will respond to you rest of the useless rants...

Very easy No guts but too much jealousy coz

Very easy No guts but too much jealousy coz

And don't bother to respond

 

[BetterPakistan]

You are mistaken, it was India who quickly urged UN to resolve the issue than Bill Clinton called Nawaz Sharif to US and asked him to withdraw its troops even your own people accepted this fact and it doesn't matter if you don't admit it.

Go through the videos that you have posted again and again, turn the volume high and listen to them carefully, maybe write the content down on a paper and read it 20 times, and spare yourself from setting new standards of shamelessness.

In the mean time, I am putting you on ignore list.

I never bothered to talk to people like you, it was you and all your fellows who trolled and came here. Secondly, you better watch gen kishan pal both interviews or better search so that you may find your own govt announced that you lost 587 lives. Your own govt announced that Point 5353 was captured by Pak and still in Pak control. I am not setting any standard of shamelessness it is ignorant morons like you whom are not accepting the facts but it doesn't matter if few ill minded don't admit the facts because your own people broke their silence.

 

[GuardianRED]

You are mistaken, it was India who quickly urged UN to resolve the issue than Bill Clinton called Nawaz Sharif to US and asked him to withdraw its troops even your own people accepted this fact and it doesn't matter if you don't admit it.



I never bothered to talk to people like you, it was you and all your fellows who trolled and came here. Secondly, you better watch gen kishan pal both interviews or better search so that you may find your own govt announced that you lost 587 lives. Your own govt announced that Point 5353 was captured by Pak and still in Pak control. I am not setting any standard of shamelessness it is ignorant morons like you whom are not accepting the facts but it doesn't matter if few ill minded don't admit the facts because your own people broke their silence.

"I am not setting any standard of shamelessness"

No Pal u are bench-marking it!!! it a whole NEW Level!, this is the Nth time i have read someone shameless saying Point 5353 is still in Pak hands and say the Ind govt said so and has NO proof of this.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/jul/27inter.htm

Gen VP Malik interview where he

"
Can you clarify the controversy about Point 5353, which has reportedly been taken over by Pakistan?

That is not true. The 1972 letter clearly shows, both on the map and in writing, that the LoC passes through 5353. Some of the Point's features are occupied by them and some by us. But the fact is that if you want to attack Point 5353, you would have to come via the Pakistani side. It is not with us. We had never occupied it. Point 5353 had been vacated by them for a while when the talks were going on. Then they reoccupied it, that's all. I don't know how this controversy started. But I saw the hand-sketched map in which somebody had put 5353 right next to Tiger Hill. That is wrong! "

All this CAN be solved if someone has the before and after map of the area! Simple

 

[BetterPakistan]

"I am not setting any standard of shamelessness"

No Pal u are bench-marking it!!! it a whole NEW Level!, this is the Nth time i have read someone shameless saying Point 5353 is still in Pak hands and say the Ind govt said so and has NO proof of this.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/jul/27inter.htm

Gen VP Malik interview where he

"
Can you clarify the controversy about Point 5353, which has reportedly been taken over by Pakistan?

That is not true. The 1972 letter clearly shows, both on the map and in writing, that the LoC passes through 5353. Some of the Point's features are occupied by them and some by us. But the fact is that if you want to attack Point 5353, you would have to come via the Pakistani side. It is not with us. We had never occupied it. Point 5353 had been vacated by them for a while when the talks were going on. Then they reoccupied it, that's all. I don't know how this controversy started. But I saw the hand-sketched map in which somebody had put 5353 right next to Tiger Hill. That is wrong! "

All this CAN be solved if someone has the before and after map of the area! Simple

Check my comments before in which there is a video of Gen VK singh in which he said that Musharraf crossed LOC before kargil and we were not able to stop him.

Second thing, I have discussed Gen Pal here before, read it and see what your gen exposed about kargil. It is not only Gen Pal who said that, your own govt accepted that India lost 587 lives and Point 5353. Near Tiger Hill Point 5353 is still under Pak control.

Here you go:-
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/near-tiger-hill-point-5353-still-pakoccupied/488505/

Your own one has stated that near Tiger Hill point 5353 is still under Pak control. It also says that India tried to take it back even with the assistance of artillery but remain unsuccessful.

Watch this video of Gen VK singh praising musharraf and accepting that we didn't stopped him:-

If you still don't believe me, open wikipedia and read who suffered most loss India or Pak. Wikipedia says India lost 587 lives while Pak lost 357-453. Wikipedia also says that 1363 indian soldiers were wounded while only 665+ Pak soldiers wounded. Wikipedia also says that 1 fighter jet and 1 helicopter of india were shot down by Pak and 1 fighter jet of india was crashed by Pak which entered Pakistan soil.

It also states that Indian troops strength was 25,000 while Pak troops strength was 5,000.

I guess I have proved enough but you guys keep on arguing. This is not the way to argue, if you guys don't want to accept the reality than leave it here because I don't feel arguing with ones who don't accept facts is worth it.

 

[GuardianRED]

Check my comments before in which there is a video of Gen VK singh in which he said that Musharraf crossed LOC before kargil and we were not able to stop him.

Second thing, I have discussed Gen Pal here before, read it and see what your gen exposed about kargil. It is not only Gen Pal who said that, your own govt accepted that India lost 587 lives and Point 5353. Near Tiger Hill Point 5353 is still under Pak control.

Here you go:-
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/near-tiger-hill-point-5353-still-pakoccupied/488505/

Your own one has stated that near Tiger Hill point 5353 is still under Pak control. It also says that India tried to take it back even with the assistance of artillery but remain unsuccessful.

Watch this video of Gen VK singh praising musharraf and accepting that we didn't stopped him:-

If you still don't believe me, open wikipedia and read who suffered most loss India or Pak. Wikipedia says India lost 587 lives while Pak lost 357-453. Wikipedia also says that 1363 indian soldiers were wounded while only 665+ Pak soldiers wounded. Wikipedia also says that 1 fighter jet and 1 helicopter of india were shot down by Pak and 1 fighter jet of india was crashed by Pak which entered Pakistan soil.

It also states that Indian troops strength was 25,000 while Pak troops strength was 5,000.

I guess I have proved enough but you guys keep on arguing. This is not the way to argue, if you guys don't want to accept the reality than leave it here because I don't feel arguing with ones who don't accept facts is worth it.

Wow standard Trait u all have - i.e. repeat yourselves ! First who was there ???? Gen VK Singh or Gen VP Malik????

Yes Its Gen VP Malik and i will take his word BECAUSE HE WAS THERE!!!!!

"
Your own one has stated that near Tiger Hill point 5353 is still under Pak control. It also says that India tried to take it back even with the assistance of artillery but remain unsuccessful."

Who did ? who said it ??? Did you read the interview of Gen VP Malik??? I guess you didn't and like repeating yourself

Ind Govt said so WHERE IS THE PROOF and don't post Gen VK cause he isn't the authority