1971 India Pakistan War: Role of Russia, China, America and Britain

[Gautam]

^^i know its a possibility. since i don't have trolling licence like greens here.

anyways- can you tell me what news you were getting those days?

 

[Windjammer]

^^i know its a possibility. since i don't have trolling licence like greens here.

anyways- can you tell me what news you were getting those days?

Well it did happen before my life time...none the less, since Indian media is the last word in reality, hence the world must have had a good laugh.

 

[LimPeh]

Well it did happen before my life time...none the less, since Indian media is the last word in reality, hence the world must have had a good laugh.

 

[SamantK]

First read the behaviour pattern in the following link and then look at this thread.....i say the author has hit the nail on the head.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/189712-india-meet-internet-hindus.html

Obvious attempt at trolling me mate but im in a good enough mood..

On topic, the concept is far from truth because the Indian warlords are on record that PAF was attacking Indian targets as late as 17th December.....and the Longewala wasn't the only major incident on the Western front, check out what happened in the Mukreian Rail yards or the Okha Naval station.

Can I have some solid references?? Not your air force history? I cant find much bout these two incidents..

Stop your freeking trolling, before you are kicked off in a pink saree.

From your off-topic rants of 'Internet Hindu' it seems you are doing the same.

Well it did happen before my life time...none the less, since Indian media is the last word in reality, hence the world must have had a good laugh.

Mr Intelligent dude, a picture from a scanned book means nothing, please prove first that it indeed was a propaganda picture..
Also, the proof I have been giving you were not Indian, dint you read them yet?

 

[Jackdaws]

Well it did happen before my life time...none the less, since Indian media is the last word in reality, hence the world must have had a good laugh.

What's the name of this propaganda film? Let's see if it exists or is just another product of Pakistani lies.

 

[karan.1970]

What's the name of this propaganda film? Let's see if it exists or is just another product of Pakistani lies.

Do you really need an answer.. I am told there was a proposal in Pakistan to classify the returned 93000 POWs as tourists returning from India to spin the whole thing in a positive manner. This is nothing compared to that

 

[SamantK]

Do you really need an answer.. I am told there was a proposal in Pakistan to classify the returned 93000 POWs as tourists returning from India to spin the whole thing in a positive manner. This is nothing compared to that

Sometimes I think that since this particular book shows India in poor light, some believe that it must be true - without giving an iota of though

 

[danger007]

Pakistan will have to avenge this defeat. Next major war may well be a two-front war for Hind, and pieces of Hind will fall off the body.

Try hard like Kargil..................

 

[Gautam]

Do you really need an answer.. I am told there was a proposal in Pakistan to classify the returned 93000 POWs as tourists returning from India to spin the whole thing in a positive manner. This is nothing compared to that

so pakistan was trying to treat them as tourists to avoid humiliation?
lol that's height of dead trying

 

[karan.1970]

Pakistan will have to avenge this defeat. Next major war may well be a two-front war for Hind, and pieces of Hind will fall off the body.

Hum ko mallom hai jannat ki haqueeqat lekin, Dil ke behlane ko Ghalib, yeh khayal accha hai

frankly, you guys right now need to worry about parts falling off your own country.

And for once, try to do something on your own.. Sometimes you need USA for support, sometimes China. Thats why Pakistani in last 65 years has moved from one disappointment to another..

 

[Hellfire]

Eh wait a second. I thought it was Pakistan that helped Sri Lanka this time to defeat the LTTE? How did u guys get involved? Yeap I read about the IPKF but that was long ago and ended in a failure did it not?

Pakistan did naught. Your history and knowledge of facts is totally askew. The LTTE was raised in order to deflect the problem of Tamil activism for reunification of the Tamil occupied territories of SL with mainland TamilNadu. (The cholas affected migration of Tamil populance to places like Sumatra Thailand present day Singapore Malaysia etc) LTTE was totally trained and armed by the indians in 1980s with the SL then especially leaning towards US. In addition it was meant to deny US or any other power space for own bases. The final objective was to integrate the territories (that is claimed by some quarters as being aim by the then Indian PM Indira Gandhi who formulated the so called Indira Doctrine on lines of US' Monroe Doctrine).

The Indo-SL accord was signed with Rajiv Gandhi landing in Colombo and Indian naval warships deployed just outside Colombo harbour and Para Units being airlifted and escorted to SL. It was the classic example of coercive diplomacy. The trouble started when Indian political leadership failed to define IPKF's role. In intial stages LTTE cadres would melt away when IPKF troops came and any LTTE cadres which were trapped they would surrender to Indians and RAW would take them debrief them and then release them again. This was the situation. The then president of SL Jayewardhane then got in touch with LTTE as Indians failed to establish a Tamil eelam in SL constitution as per LTTE's hopes and SL wanted Indian army out and subsequently the IPKF-LTTE conflict started.

This ended with Rajiv Gandhis regime being voted out and Tamils in India applying pressure for recal of troops. The LTTE decided to teach their former friend Rajiv Gandhi a lesson and assasinate him. Doing so created the problems for LTTE. Now there was no direct support for them from Indian government and also the routes for their escape were slowly being squeezed out. But as 90s was the era of Indian economic liberalisation and coalition politics no government was too keen to work towards the problem. (with Tamil regional parties being strong partners in central governments) It culminated in increased spirit of cooperation with SL to enhance trade and other ties. This had its natural repercussions especially post Dec 13 attack on Parliament in india and subsequent Indian deployment on anti-terror basis on western border. This left Indian position on LTTE untenable and hence low profiel support came to SL with real time int being provided by Indians (overflights by Indian ELINT and Recce aircrafts ex-Bangalore were common during SLA ops) through satellite and other air assets. Military-techincal support and advices were also given at the same time to SLA. The political financial and military backing to LTTE was cut off and denial of sea for LTTE supplies was enforced by joint IN SLN patrols.

When you say IPKF ended a failure - we agree. Because no clear cut objectives were given. Neither was it told to make SL a part of India (as per original plan) nor was it told to crush LTTE (which was seen by IPKF as a necessary and crucial part of overall plan which was being run by RAW and GoI). Thus no objectives were achieved. We lost men for no return.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

look at the irony the same aircraft carrier is now at the shores of pakistan ready to attack,but alas they do not have any Russia to save them.......

karma is a *****......

what in Gods good name are you talking about

 

[SamantK]

what in Gods good name are you talking about

Maybe he meant this, but exaggerated it a bit

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...oves-uss-enterprise-into-pakistani-water.html

 

[LimPeh]

Pakistan did naught. Your history and knowledge of facts is totally askew. The LTTE was raised in order to deflect the problem of Tamil activism for reunification of the Tamil occupied territories of SL with mainland TamilNadu. (The cholas affected migration of Tamil populance to places like Sumatra Thailand present day Singapore Malaysia etc) LTTE was totally trained and armed by the indians in 1980s with the SL then especially leaning towards US. In addition it was meant to deny US or any other power space for own bases. The final objective was to integrate the territories (that is claimed by some quarters as being aim by the then Indian PM Indira Gandhi who formulated the so called Indira Doctrine on lines of US' Monroe Doctrine).

The Indo-SL accord was signed with Rajiv Gandhi landing in Colombo and Indian naval warships deployed just outside Colombo harbour and Para Units being airlifted and escorted to SL. It was the classic example of coercive diplomacy. The trouble started when Indian political leadership failed to define IPKF's role. In intial stages LTTE cadres would melt away when IPKF troops came and any LTTE cadres which were trapped they would surrender to Indians and RAW would take them debrief them and then release them again. This was the situation. The then president of SL Jayewardhane then got in touch with LTTE as Indians failed to establish a Tamil eelam in SL constitution as per LTTE's hopes and SL wanted Indian army out and subsequently the IPKF-LTTE conflict started.

This ended with Rajiv Gandhis regime being voted out and Tamils in India applying pressure for recal of troops. The LTTE decided to teach their former friend Rajiv Gandhi a lesson and assasinate him. Doing so created the problems for LTTE. Now there was no direct support for them from Indian government and also the routes for their escape were slowly being squeezed out. But as 90s was the era of Indian economic liberalisation and coalition politics no government was too keen to work towards the problem. (with Tamil regional parties being strong partners in central governments) It culminated in increased spirit of cooperation with SL to enhance trade and other ties. This had its natural repercussions especially post Dec 13 attack on Parliament in india and subsequent Indian deployment on anti-terror basis on western border. This left Indian position on LTTE untenable and hence low profiel support came to SL with real time int being provided by Indians (overflights by Indian ELINT and Recce aircrafts ex-Bangalore were common during SLA ops) through satellite and other air assets. Military-techincal support and advices were also given at the same time to SLA. The political financial and military backing to LTTE was cut off and denial of sea for LTTE supplies was enforced by joint IN SLN patrols.

When you say IPKF ended a failure - we agree. Because no clear cut objectives were given. Neither was it told to make SL a part of India (as per original plan) nor was it told to crush LTTE (which was seen by IPKF as a necessary and crucial part of overall plan which was being run by RAW and GoI). Thus no objectives were achieved. We lost men for no return.

No wait a second. That entire history I know as well. Wikipedia is a good source. I was talking about the recent success the Sri Lankans had against the LTTE. The recent episode just two years ago that also happened to create some controversy over human rights and stuff.

I was under the impression that Pakistan was the nation helping out this time round. I was under the impression that India had washed her hands off the whole affair after Rajiv Ghaandi got killed? Feel free to correct me though.

Do you really need an answer.. I am told there was a proposal in Pakistan to classify the returned 93000 POWs as tourists returning from India to spin the whole thing in a positive manner. This is nothing compared to that

93 000 Pakistani tourists in India? Yeah right...what did their government say these guys were seeing? Taj Mahal? In the middle of a war?

Spin some better yarns please and no need to paint other nationalities as bumbling idiots just to make yourselves look good.

 

[Hellfire]

No wait a second. That entire history I know as well. Wikipedia is a good source. I was talking about the recent success the Sri Lankans had against the LTTE. The recent episode just two years ago that also happened to create some controversy over human rights and stuff.

I was under the impression that Pakistan was the nation helping out this time round. I was under the impression that India had washed her hands off the whole affair after Rajiv Ghaandi got killed? Feel free to correct me though.

The present coalition in India is having DMK as a member. Since the present government came to power in 2003 end the same party DMK has been lending support to it.

As I pointed out earlier the LTTE had been an Indian brainchild. Post -Gandhi assassination there was only one non-coalition government that of PV Narasimha Rao who was more keen on economic liberalisation and also loathe to involve itself in SL as one of the reasons attributed to Rajiv Gandhi's losing elections was the fact that IPKF was seen by majority of Indians as a worthless intervention (again I repeat that since there was no clear mandate either to the army or to public about what the intervention was to achieve the casualties sustained could not be justified). Post Rao government all the governments in India were coalition and short lived and hence none was having either the time or the inclination to indulge in SL affairs as support of pro-LTTE Tamil parties was essential. This allowed the dominance of LTTE over SLA in late 90s and early 2000s as they were being armed and provisioned by both India and other nations based Tamil groups. Officially Indian govt had washed off its hands of the affair. RAW and MI had its interests which were met by insertion of various assets into LTTE. In a significantly small scale the support to SLA was being increased as terrorism in J&K had also made Indian position untenable of supporting LTTE in name of revolution and declaring the Kashmiri groups as terrorists.

Post 9/11 there was tremendous support for Indian position in US and especially post Parliament the protracted deployment of forces along Pakistani border enabled India to achieve the diplomatic coup it wanted. With the changing dynamics involved India could not afford to be seen as supporting LTTE (even non-action was considered a support in the post 9/11 era) and both the Vajpayee and then Manmohan govts had Tamil parties support which was crucial for continuance of government in power (the former had AIADMK and the latter has DMK: both these parties have pro-LTTE elements). So the balance was that publicly India was not involved any further in this issue but through covert actions India along with US aimed to reduce and cut off the economic and logistical support to LTTE and then India started arming SL by giving weaponry (eg Indira Radars for detection of LTTE ACs post their raid on Colombo airfield) and providing real time intelligence by aerial and space based assets. Infact during the final offensives Indian aircrafts gave a 24x7 coverage for Int for advancing SLA troops.

In addition SL was not imposed upon not to seek military hardware from other countries. So there may have been few items purchased by SLA from China as also Pakistan.

Had pakistan intervened in SL you would have seen LTTE being revived and rearmed by Indians. Something akin to what is happening in Tibet.