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1965 Biggest Tank Battle since WW II - Pakistani Victory : The Australian

hii truthlover,
Sorry, I have little knowledge about this matter but I have seen many many debates/programs on your channels regarding this, If you want I can find YouTube videos and post it .

Most of the Indian people are not obsessed about Pakistan and we do not compare to you except defense. Look at your channel or newspaper any of your achievement(good or bad) will be first compared with India why???


hi jpsingh)Please correct your sources of info or do your own research before commenting.In my school time i have never read any text about hating another religion or which specially target hindus.Yes you are right about hating india but that,s because of the wars we have fought and it,s just like hating pakistan in india.
Also you are right about the PAF role more superior than the tank regiments role in 1965 war.Even if we won that tank battle that doesn't make any big difference in the overall scenario of 1965.We had many incidents where we defeated each other but at the end according to neutral sources it was a draw and the results were indecisive.
 
hii truthlover,
Sorry, I have little knowledge about this matter but I have seen many many debates/programs on your channels regarding this, If you want I can find YouTube videos and post it .

Most of the Indian people are not obsessed about Pakistan and we do not compare to you except defense. Look at your channel or newspaper any of your achievement(good or bad) will be first compared with India why???
Now i am pretty sure you are just trolling in this thread.First you attacked on our text books then you jumped on our TV channels lol.Have you ever bothered yourself to watch your own TV channels who are saying BS propaganda of hate?We are not obsessed with you anyway.Your channels are making issues of tiny things and they are no longer journalists,they are comedians indeed.I can show you many youtube links where they are comparing themselves with pakistan from every aspect.I saw many indians before claiming such but trust me you are more hate driven by false propaganda than us ,just go look on every online forum indians always start to abuse the religion and pakistan first.
 
First of all I did not attack your channels, I said your channels discussing about your text books.
I am not fanatic, who will influence by propaganda, I also admit that my media is biased to same extent in few matters, I do not live in self-denial. I have no hatred towards any religion or people just I do not like some policies. Moreover it was you who started this..

Now i am pretty sure you are just trolling in this thread.First you attacked on our text books then you jumped on our TV channels lol.Have you ever bothered yourself to watch your own TV channels who are saying BS propaganda of hate?We are not obsessed with you anyway.Your channels are making issues of tiny things and they are no longer journalists,they are comedians indeed.I can show you many youtube links where they are comparing themselves with pakistan from every aspect.I saw many indians before claiming such but trust me you are more hate driven by false propaganda than us ,just go look on every online forum indians always start to abuse the religion and pakistan first.
 
yeah..victory...Congrats Pakistan.. :pakistan:

but some people might want to review the facts...


Battle of Asal Uttar....


India----
45 Centurions,
45 Shermans,
45 AMX-13

total-135 tanks...

4 Cavalry(44 Patton tanks)
5 Horse (44xPatton)[1]
6 Lancers (44x Patton)[1]
24 Cavalry (44x Patton)[1]
12 Cavalry (44x M24 Chaffee)[1]
19 Lancers (44x Patton)

total-264 tanks

Casualties and losses

India----
10 tanks destroyed or damaged

Pakistan--
100 tanks destroyed or abandoned

Battle of Asal Uttar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


hell yeah,decisive victory of Pakistan... :omghaha:
 
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dont worry indians are even told in their fairy tales in schools & govt controlled media that there are no school in Pakistan & pakistanis are living in caves...:omghaha: whereas its viceversa
yeh sab pakistan ka school books me hi ho sakta hain.....
 
I always say this. Pakistan won all the wars. Pakistan even defeated the Soviets all alone, so imagine what they could have done to tiny winy India. It is the only country which has the potential to be the next super power. Last time they created Bangladesh after defeating India, they will liberate Kashmir soon. That's the eventuality.
 
yeah..victory...Congrats Pakistan.. :pakistan:

but some people might want to review the facts...


Battle of Asal Uttar....


India----
45 Centurions,
45 Shermans,
45 AMX-13

total-135 tanks...

4 Cavalry(44 Patton tanks)
5 Horse (44xPatton)[1]
6 Lancers (44x Patton)[1]
24 Cavalry (44x Patton)[1]
12 Cavalry (44x M24 Chaffee)[1]
19 Lancers (44x Patton)

total-264 tanks

Casualties and losses

India----
10 tanks destroyed or damaged

Pakistan--
100 tanks destroyed or abandoned

Battle of Asal Uttar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


hell yeah,decisive victory of Pakistan... :omghaha:

The Battle of Chawinda, which took place during the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War, was one of the largest tank battles since the Second World War.

It has been claimed that as many as two thousand tanks took part in the battle, and that the Battle of Kursk has been the only tank battle that involved more tanks. It is known that during the Battle of Chawinda, each side had at least several hundred tanks. Both the Pakistanis and the Indians had Sherman tanks. The Indians also had Centurion tanks, while the Pakistanis also had Patton tanks.

The battle took place in the Ravi-Chenab corridor, which connects Jammu and Kashmir with the Indian mainland. It lasted from September 6 to September 22, 1965.

India's goal was to break up the Pakistani supply line by cutting off the city of Sialkot from the city of Lahore.

The plan was for the Indians to attack from the region around Samba, east of Jammu, move southwest, and cut off the road between Jammu and Sialkot.

On the night of September 6, Indian artillery began shelling Pakistani forces stationed on both sides of Jassar Bridge. The Pakistani counterattack included blowing up part of the bridge.

The Indians captured some border villages on the night of September 7, while fighting was still going on at the bridge.

On September 8, Indian forces began moving toward Chawinda, in the Sialkot district. Pakistani aircraft fired at advancing Indian tanks but did not cause much damage to the tanks. Some tank against tank fighting then took place.

The Indian moved on to the Phillora region. A huge tank battle took place there on September 11. The Pakistanis were heavily outnumbered, and the Indians were able to capture Phillora.

Next, the Indians began moving toward Chawinda. They planned to capture Chawinda and gain control of the railway that ran from Pasrur to Sialkot.

Meanwhile, the Pakistanis received reinforcements.

On the way to Chawinda, the Indians captured the town of Zafarwal and then lost it.

The Pakistanis, now supplied with more Patton tanks, were able to prevent the Indians from reaching Chawinda for several days.

Fighting began around Chawinda on September 16.

The Indians incurred the most losses during the fighting. More than 120 Indian tanks were lost, while only about 40 Pakistani tanks were lost.

:victory::chilli::yahoo:

On September 21, Indian forces withdrew.

The following day, the UN Security Council called for a ceasefire.

The war ended on September 23.

Indo-Pakistani War 1965 - Battle of Chawinda | Tank Battles
 
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The Battle of Chawinda, which took place during the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War, was one of the largest tank battles since the Second World War.

It has been claimed that as many as two thousand tanks took part in the battle, and that the Battle of Kursk has been the only tank battle that involved more tanks. It is known that during the Battle of Chawinda, each side had at least several hundred tanks. Both the Pakistanis and the Indians had Sherman tanks. The Indians also had Centurion tanks, while the Pakistanis also had Patton tanks.

The battle took place in the Ravi-Chenab corridor, which connects Jammu and Kashmir with the Indian mainland. It lasted from September 6 to September 22, 1965.

India's goal was to break up the Pakistani supply line by cutting off the city of Sialkot from the city of Lahore.

The plan was for the Indians to attack from the region around Samba, east of Jammu, move southwest, and cut off the road between Jammu and Sialkot.

On the night of September 6, Indian artillery began shelling Pakistani forces stationed on both sides of Jassar Bridge. The Pakistani counterattack included blowing up part of the bridge.

The Indians captured some border villages on the night of September 7, while fighting was still going on at the bridge.

On September 8, Indian forces began moving toward Chawinda, in the Sialkot district. Pakistani aircraft fired at advancing Indian tanks but did not cause much damage to the tanks. Some tank against tank fighting then took place.

The Indian moved on to the Phillora region. A huge tank battle took place there on September 11. The Pakistanis were heavily outnumbered, and the Indians were able to capture Phillora.

Next, the Indians began moving toward Chawinda. They planned to capture Chawinda and gain control of the railway that ran from Pasrur to Sialkot.

Meanwhile, the Pakistanis received reinforcements.

On the way to Chawinda, the Indians captured the town of Zafarwal and then lost it.

The Pakistanis, now supplied with more Patton tanks, were able to prevent the Indians from reaching Chawinda for several days.

Fighting began around Chawinda on September 16.

The Indians incurred the most losses during the fighting. More than 120 Indian tanks were lost, while only about 40 Pakistani tanks were lost.

:victory::chilli::yahoo:

On September 21, Indian forces withdrew.

The following day, the UN Security Council called for a ceasefire.

The war ended on September 23.

Indo-Pakistani War 1965 - Battle of Chawinda | Tank Battles

Indian official report,India lost 29 tanks....but its official that Pakistan lost Over 518 km2 (218 mi2) of territory along with 44 tanks,not 40... now,everybody knows quality of Pakistani claims during Kargil war....even if you've doubt,please check Pakistani Claims..from terrorist to Northern Light Infantry..from around 100 casualty to 4000(claim of your own PM)... :cheesy:
 
Some more about 65 war.

What did you do in the war, daddy?

Dangers of military myths

The official history confirms another great failing of the 1965 war, the inability of the Indian Air Force to provide a decisive edge on the battlefield or even match up to the Pakistanis

In a society where even the writing of ancient history is so politically contentious, it is difficult to expect a realistic appreciation of fairly recent wars. Culturally, we also confuse military science with soldierly heroism. We can spend all our time extolling our troops for the courage they showed in Kargil but avoid talking about what got them in such a near-impossible war in the first place. Even with our bigger wars, propaganda myths created in the course of the engagements are then perpetuated for decades. In the 22-day war in 1965, for example, as schoolchildren we were taught that the Pakistani pilots were so scared of the tiny Gnat that they fled the moment they spotted one. That it was because the then army chief, General J.N. Chowdhary, was such a world-famous hot-shot in tank warfare that the Pakistani armour came unstuck at Khem Karan and other graveyards of the Patton. That Lahore and Sialkot were almost sure to be in our bag if the war had gone on a few more days.

That is why it is refreshing that India’s own official history of the country’s first full-fledged modern war has been written with a degree of detachment. It confirms several widely held beliefs in the strategic community and described in the many books on that war. In India, the official history has followed close after the release of In the Line of Duty: A Soldier Remembers, the autobiography of Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh, one of our tallest generals ever, professionally and physically, at 6-ft-2. As the western army commander during the 1965 war (there was no northern command then), he also led the operations in Kashmir and therefore controlled the entire war.

His revelations, read with his earlier War Despatches and now authenticated by the official history, are devastating. It is, for example, now confirmed that not only did Gen Chowdhury play a very small role in the entire campaign, he was so nervous as to be on the verge of losing half of Punjab to Pakistan, including the city of Amritsar. Harbakhsh describes, in clinical detail, how our own offensive in the Lahore sector had come unhinged. The general commanding the division on Ichchogil canal fled in panic, leaving his jeep, its wireless running and the briefcase containing sensitive documents that were then routinely read on Radio Pakistan during the war. Singh wanted to court martial him, Chowdhury let him get away with resignation.

But a bigger disaster struck a bit to the south where the other division cracked up in assault, just as it encountered a bit of resistance. Several infantry battalions, short on battle inoculation, deserted and Singh gives a hair-raising account – and confirmation of a long-debated rumour – that Chowdhury panicked so badly he ordered him to withdraw to a new defensive line behind the Beas, thereby conceding half of Punjab to Pakistan.
Singh describes the conversation with Chowdhury at Ambala where he refused to carry out the order, asking his chief to either put it down in writing or visit the front and take charge of the battle. Chowdhury waffled even on that panicky decision, Singh’s artillery and some rag-tag armour lured the Pattons into soggy ground on a moonlit night and the result was the greatest escape to victory in our post-Independence military history. What was to be a spectacular Pakistani breakthrough right up
to Panipat became a great rout of its armour.

The official history confirms not just this but also another great failing of that war, the inability of the Indian Air Force to not only provide a decisive edge on the battlefield but to even match up to the Pakistanis. It did not participate in any of the big battles. Many of its attacks were casual, half-hearted, even suicidal, as the decision of opening the campaign with four Vampires, one of history’s first jets, made of plywood, to block the Pakistani advance in Chhamb. All four were shot, and IAF opened the campaign with a 0-4 deficit. Then followed a bizarre story of no communication between the army and the air force. The army apparently thought it could sort out the Pakistanis by itself. The air force thought it was fighting a war exclusively with the PAF.

There was evidently too little communication between the army, air force and the political leadership. The IAF, for example, was told to stay back in the hangars in the eastern sector even when the PAF launched withering attacks on Kalaikunda and Bagdogra. Even after the disastrous Chhamb engagement, the IAF was so casual as to leave a whole bunch of frontline aircraft exposed at Pathankot, within minutes of flying time from PAF bases, and the result was another disaster in a raid at dusk. The Pakistanis seemed to have such a free run they even shot down the Dakota carrying the then chief minister of Gujarat, Balwant Rai Mehta, deep inside our territory, at night.

Many of us have read with great resentment and scepticism claims of writers like former PAF chief Air Marshall Asghar Khan (India-Pakistan War: The First Round) and British writer John Fricker who give Pakistan a TKO victory in the 1965 air war. Fricker, in particular, gave these claims international currency with his controversial article, ‘30 Seconds over Sargodha’, which described ‘‘how’’ a PAF pilot shot down four Indian Hunters in 30 seconds over the Sargodha airbase. These claims are highly inflated. But the fact remains that in 1965 the IAF failed to tilt the balance in any theatre of the war. Singh says the IAF was simply not prepared for war, physically or mentally. The IAF commanders from that period, including the then chief Arjan Singh, say the army never kept them in the loop. But the fact is that all of them, even the eastern and western command chiefs, were decorated after the war. There were no questions asked.

There weren’t any asked elsewhere either. Every single army general even remotely connected with the war effort was decorated, including the Strike Corps commander in the Sialkot sector who did not cover five miles in 15 days. Chowdhury himself was cast as some kind of a swadeshi Rommel, though he never got within shouting distance of the war. And even the then naval chief was decorated though his fleet remained firmly in harbour, failing to stir out even after the Pakistanis cockily pounded Dwarka.

The dangers in perpetuating mythologies built during a war into a kind of instant military history are obvious. It is impossible to first generously lionise and decorate people and to then hold them accountable for what they did wrong during a war. We obviously learnt some lessons from these in 1965 and the result was a decisive, premeditated campaign and victory in 1971. The key to that lightning campaign was total understanding between the army and the IAF. But if you look back on the way we once again rushed to hand out decorations post-Kargil and how closed we still are to the idea of finding out how on earth we let so many Pakistanis get so well entrenched on so much territory for so long, you wonder if the lessons of 1965 are so thoroughly forgotten that we are willing to make the same mistakes again.

SHEKHAR GUPTA - Indian Express
 
Battle of Chawinda was so bad for the Indians, the Indian tanks columns were divided and suffered from miscommunication, that they started firing on each other thinking the other was Pakistani armored calvary. This according to the Indian commander who led the operation into Pakistan (forgot his name). He wrote this in his account of the battle and decided the attack has failed and Pakistan performed a counter-attack and decimated and pushed back the surviving Indian units back across the border.
 

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