1965 Biggest Tank Battle since WW II - Pakistani Victory : The Australian

[notsuperstitious]

In 1965 india attacked pakistan held kashmir with the objective of freeing it. In order to relieve pressure on pakistan held kashmir, pakistan counter attacked in punjab, threatening the important city of jalunder. India fought hard to and protected the city from falling but utterly failed in the objective of winning kashmir and infact conceding more ground than winning.

That's how pakistan won the 1965 war.

Next chapter : how pakistan freed east bengal from indian genocide.

 

[A1Kaid]

Ok now that I have understood the level of your english, I am going to make it really simple for you.

Do you have any neutral source saying Pakistan won the 1965 war?

Its is a simple yes/no question. If you are answering no, you don't need to write anything else. If yes, please present that source. Do you think you can manage that without talking about battle of Chawinda? Or should I try hindi as well?

Kya aapke paas koi neutral saboot hain jisse ye saabit kiya ja sake ki Pakistan ne 1965 ka yudh jeeta tha? keval ha ya na me jawab de.

Look at the very first page or do you have selective vision? Ignorant Indian with a jelly degree in history...

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Look at the very first page or do you have selective vision? Ignorant Indian...

That is about battle of Chawinda sir, not the 1965 war in whole. I understand that you couldn't understand the article since it was written in English, now that I have told you about it, you need to find a different source which says that Pakistan won the 1965 war.

 

[farhan_9909]

The 2015-16 war expected between india and pakistan will be the last war fought between indo pak.

one of us would have to get eliminated from the map.

lets see what happens

 

[A1Kaid]

That is about battle of Chawinda sir, not the 1965 war in whole. I understand that you couldn't understand the article since it was written in English, now that I have told you about it, you need to find a different source which says that Pakistan won the 1965 war.

Battle of Chawinda if you knew anything about it was the decisive battle of the war whoever won, won the ground war--it was the decisive blow at the end of the war. The air war was already won in 1965, which is even admitted by retired Indian military staff who served in 1965 war.


BBC ON THIS DAY | 6 | 1965: Indian Army invades W Pakistan

Here is a BBC report from those days in 1965 which tells of Pakistani ground victory in 1965.

Reports from the Pakistani city of Karachi say forces have beaten back the Indian Army from Lahore.

They said advances at the border towns of Jasar, Wagah and Bedian had all been "fully stopped".

Pakistani officials say the number of Indian dead in the Lahore sector is 800, their own casualties are reported to be "very light".

You can't be this stupid can you? You have to be able to put pieces of the puzzle together. You lost Battle of Chawinda + Lost the Air War+ Heavy losses in persons, tanks, and aircraft + Failed Invasion of Lahore + Full retreat of all Indian forces = Defeat.

 

[kaykay]

Look at the very first page or do you have selective vision? Ignorant Indian with a jelly degree in history...

That 3800 casualty figure is originally from 'Library of Congress Country Studies conducted by the Federal Research Division of the United States' and not Indian source. i have source that also claims thats Pakistan lost much more land than India. You want link??

 

[A1Kaid]

The 2015-16 war expected between india and pakistan will be the last war fought between indo pak.

one of us would have to get eliminated from the map.

lets see what happens

Agreed, I guess you really liked my one post in the Arab-Iranian dogfight thread, glad you share my point of view. The next war between Pakistan and India better be a conclusive war. Next war should be an allied invasion (Pakistan + China) of India, whole region wants to see India crushed beyond recognition.

That 3800 casualty figure is originally from 'Library of Congress Country Studies conducted by the Federal Research Division of the United States' and not Indian source. i have source that also claims thats Pakistan lost much more land than India. You want link??

Library of Congress has no such report, I have personally verified it as I have access to people and University staff members whose library's houses many of the Library of Congress' files and documents, no report exist. Find one document or even picture of such a quote from a Library of Congress document, there is none.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Battle of Chawinda if you knew anything about it was the decisive battle of the war whoever won, won the ground war--it was the decisive blow at the end of the war. The air war was already won in 1965, which is even admitted by retired Indian military staff who served in 1965 war.


BBC ON THIS DAY | 6 | 1965: Indian Army invades W Pakistan

Here is a BBC report from those days in 1965 which tells of Pakistani ground victory in 1965.




You can't be this stupid can you? You have to be able to put pieces of the puzzle together. You lost Battle of Chawinda + Lost the Air War+ Heavy losses in persons, tanks, and aircraft + Failed Invasion of Lahore + Full retreat of all Indian forces = Defeat.

Ok sirji. Let me put the pieces of puzzle together.
Pakistan invades kashmir: India forces them back.
India invades Pakistan: Captures more land than pakistan
IAF and PAF both suffer loses, with IAF having lesser attrition rate than PAF.
Pakistan barely manages to defend Lahore after Indian army reaches outskirts of the city.

So India lost the war. Got it sir. And I thought JTT titles were being distributed on merit. But then again, living in denial after so much evidence has been presented must be meritorious in itself. Keep living in your happy world. As I said, Pakistanis have lost every "war" they have fought, so they try to satisfy themselves by showing that they won "battles"

 

[Jackdaws]

Some Pakistanis believe that angels descended from Heaven to fight on the Pakistani side in 1965 - apparently they were all on extended leave 6 years later...

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Library of Congress has no such report, I have personally verified it as I have access to people and University staff members whose library's houses many of the Library of Congress' files and documents, no report exist. Find one document or even picture of such a quote from a Library of Congress document, there is none.

This should be from the oblivion then

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdyfield%28DOCID+pk0152%29

 

[kaykay]

Agreed, I guess you really liked my one post in the Arab-Iranian dogfight thread, glad you share my point of view. The next war between Pakistan and India better be a conclusive war. Next war should be an allied invasion (Pakistan + China) of India, whole region wants to see India crushed beyond recognition.




Library of Congress has no such report, I have personally verified it as I have access to people and University staff members whose library's houses many of the Library of Congress' files and documents, no report exist. Find one document or even picture of such a quote from a Library of Congress document, there is none.

Here you go. It exists. And its clearly says that Pakistan lost 3800 troops while India lost 3000 troops.
lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+in0189)

 

[A1Kaid]

This should be fro the oblivion then

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdyfield%28DOCID+pk0152%29

No real hard document of this can be found according to staff members who actually house thousands of documents from the Library of Congress, you do realize they make prints of these. That's my point. This is a temporary internet file uploaded onto their server, though it is still a source.


In just one battle India lost 800 soldiers, and hundreds more injured you didn't fare well in the other battles either. Battle of Asal Uttar was really the only success Indian army had in the whole 1965 conflict, the rest were miserable failures of defeat and retreat. In fact, the Indian commanding officer in the 1965 Invasion of Lahore his battalion came under fire and so did his car, he personally got out of the car and ran back to India saving his life and abandoning his own troops.

 

[Jackdaws]

No real hard document of this can be found according to staff members who actually house thousands of documents from the Library of Congress, you do realize they make prints of these. That's my point. This is a temporary internet file uploaded onto their server, though it is still a source.


In just one battle India lost 800 soldiers, and hundreds more injured you didn't fare well in the other battles either. Battle of Asal Uttar was really the only success Indian army had in the whole 1965 conflict, the rest were miserable failures of defeat and retreat. In fact, the Indian commanding officer in the 1965 Invasion of Lahore his battalion came under fire and so did his car, he personally got out of the car and ran back to India saving his life and abandoning his own troops.

LOL. So, in your opinion Pakistan won the 1965 war?

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

No real hard document of this can be found according to staff members who actually house thousands of documents from the Library of Congress, you do realize they make prints of these. That's my point. This is a temporary internet file uploaded onto their server, though it is still a source.


In just one battle India lost 800 soldiers, and hundreds more injured you didn't fare well in the other battles either. Battle of Asal Uttar was really the only success Indian army had in the whole 1965 conflict, the rest were miserable failures of defeat and retreat. In fact, the Indian commanding officer in the 1965 Invasion of Lahore his battalion came under fire and so did his car, he personally got out of the car and ran back to India saving his life and abandoning his own troops.

And what is the point of all this? We still lost lesser soldiers than you. About Indians running away, same can be said about pakistanis in Kashmir. Whenever 1965 war comes up, pakistanis conveniently forget that war was started by Pakistan in Kashmir and India was not the invader.

You said you won the land war. I don't see it since our losses were lesser. However is defending your territory against a defender can be considered an achievement?

 

[kaykay]

No real hard document of this can be found according to staff members who actually house thousands of documents from the Library of Congress, you do realize they make prints of these. That's my point. This is a temporary internet file uploaded onto their server, though it is still a source.


In just one battle India lost 800 soldiers, and hundreds more injured you didn't fare well in the other battles either. Battle of Asal Uttar was really the only success Indian army had in the whole 1965 conflict, the rest were miserable failures of defeat and retreat. In fact, the Indian commanding officer in the 1965 Invasion of Lahore his battalion came under fire and so did his car, he personally got out of the car and ran back to India saving his life and abandoning his own troops.

Now accept it dude. And you have no neutral source to say that More Indian soldiers got killed than Pakistani. While we have shown you many still you are not accepting. You are claiming much but showing no neutral sources while asking us to show neutral sources and still not accepting those sources.