18 Indian Terrorists sabotaging CPEC arrested in Pakistan

[Chanakyaa]

Look, the case of Mukti Bahini was not very different than that of the Afghan Mujahideen during Afghan War. When millions of refugees come into your country escaping brutality, the least one can do is help in whichever way we can.

But therein arose the difference. Mukti Bahini was a one-time enterprise for us. The only other misadventure was the lame and half-baked support to LTTE under Indira Gandhi which was very quickly reverted. But the Afghan War propelled the ISI into a different league - the assets, autonomy of action and ability to raise finances through weapons, currency counterfeiting and narcotics never really went away. Pakistan's experiment merely began with the Afghan War, where it should have stopped.

You have to understand the mindset of the Civilian leadership in India. They use the same system of total control over intelligence as they use over the military - the Indian political class is extremely suspicious of both. Our defence ministers have traditionally been so incompetent that the Head of R&AW reports to the Cabinet Secretary - who himself has no experience in these things.

The purpose is to keep them on a tight leash of bureaucratic oversight. Our civilian leadership has never really cared about developing intelligence agencies - just as defence procurement is held hostage to the whims of incompetent Defence Ministers who know nothing and rarely listen to the armed forces. For that matter, Brajesh Mishra as NSA was the first time we got some coherence into our security apparatus. And while Pakistanis might treat Doval as the devil incarnate, he is just a guy with a bucket trying to empty the ocean of incompetence that is our intelligence and security system.

Loved ur Post. Well Written !

 

[The Eagle]

Hahaha...definitely not. I am sure that if given half a chance R&AW would love to wreak havoc in Pakistan, and most Indians would cheer it as payback for Khalistan/Kashmir/North East/Mumbai/Pathankot/Uri etc. But the problem is, R&AW is not insulated from the bureaucratic red tape which envelops South Asia.

I know what you are thinking - how will a normal civilian know about the inner workings of an intelligence agency? I admit that I do not know specifics about R&AW, but I have experience of dealing with Ministers and Bureaucrats - A LOT of them. The culture of a tunnel-vision towards protecting their personal fiefdom at the cost of everything is endemic. They don't care about national interest and such airy-fairy things. Most times, inputs from technocrats and field officers are ignored just to show them who is boss. As examples, read about V.K. Krishna Menon and his deliberate sabotage of our armed forces. Also, study our defence procurement policy - which is purely aimed at kickbacks and keeping the armed forces weak through ad-hoc purchases and futile reliance on DRDO which makes no sense.

It is not that there are no exceptions to this rule in India, for example ISRO somehow managed to escape the culture of mediocrity and moribund existence-for-the-sake-of-itself. But it is an exception - just as ISI is.

Because I think you have a valid point, so I will tell you how I gathered my perceptions about the inner workings of our government. I work in IT. NIC is the nodal agency which implements all IT systems related with the government. So I have been involved in designing IT systems for many ministries and departments, including defence. In the course of my work, I have met ministers, IAS officers, etc. The general reaction is total indifference - they don't give a damn about efficiency, reducing errors, redundancy, etc. If they at all show interest, it is in those aspects of the system which will help in avoiding accountability for delays and mistakes. That's all.

Now the thing is, R&AW has to work within this framework. No matter what it wants, the Mantris and Babus have their own agenda. The deep state in India is of scumbags who care about nothing but money and power. There is no ideology involved. Creating trouble in Pakistan in the hope of long-term gains is not something that profits anyone personally. So it is of no priority.

The sudden change of narrative w.r.t R&AW became incapable and etc, damage control cannot be applied for it is too late. You just noticed being contractor/outsider but I like the way you try to bring on a point to discount the R&AW like this.

 

[Lurch Adams]

Loved ur Post. Well Written !

Thanks.

The sudden change of narrative w.r.t R&AW became incapable and etc, damage control cannot be applied for it is too late. You just noticed being contractor/outsider but I like the way you try to bring on a point to discount the R&AW like this.

You are welcome to come to India. I will take you to meet some senior bureaucrats. You will get my point.

Decisive action does take place, but only when the fear of public backlash overcomes inertia. I am not saying that there is no Indian involvement in anything that happens in Pakistan. Najam Sethi described it best when he said that the Baloch separatists, fearing for their lives, literally jumped into India's arms. We did not approach them. We did not create them. At best, some funding through clandestine channels. Ironically, it is highly likely that these are the same channels in Dubai etc. which other agencies such as ISI use.

But please do not credit R&AW with such extensive capabilities in human intelligence and covert ops. I am sure they are highly flattered at these phantom achievements.

 

[The Eagle]

Thanks.



You are welcome to come to India. I will take you to meet some senior bureaucrats. You will get my point.

Decisive action does take place, but only when the fear of public backlash overcomes inertia. I am not saying that there is no Indian involvement in anything that happens in Pakistan. Najam Sethi described it best when he said that the Baloch separatists, fearing for their lives, literally jumped into India's arms. We did not approach them. We did not create them. At best, some funding through clandestine channels. Ironically, it is highly likely that these are the same channels in Dubai etc. which other agencies such as ISI use.

But please do not credit R&AW with such extensive capabilities in human intelligence and covert ops. I am sure they are highly flattered at these phantom achievements.

Thanks for the invitation.

The channels being used by the agencies are more of a kind of like a web that sometimes newbies are lost and tangled that couldn't make it to the right point. What Najam Sethi said is something that Hamid Mir and Sethi have been busy throughout their career to do so and more onto that, do you know, Sethi is the one that had links with BLA/BRF/BLF in seventies around. He is one of the most controversial person that NS appointed in Government ranks, proven that how R&AW is busy doing her business that it isn't always about terrorism through blasts and killings but there are different way for such espionage. With respect to debate and sources, Sethi, Asma and Mir alike are most favourite connections for Indians. What about CM Delhi, if I am not wrong, the guy who asked for strikes proof and being labeled as traitor then NDTV being labeled as ISI Channel, furthermore people like Barkha etc that are mostly painted as ISI not through the public but indeed such business is at high & who does it, you know.

The terrorists, so far we have apprehended, are validating the same connection. For the mere example and a reference, search the confession video of Kulbhushan along with Mehsud, that was captured from NDS/R&AW Convoy in Afghanistan by Americans and soon handed over to Pakistan and you will have the idea as well that to what extent R&AW has been doing things until & unless you did not make you mind to totally discount or try here to paint R&AW as most innocent under cover of incapable that like we are not aware of, aren't we?. Pakistan is very well aware of such capabilities of R&AW throughout more than couple of decades that what it is up-to and can do and such experience cannot be just brushed away like this.

It is not about crediting unnecessarily but there are things indicates and proves about R&AW involvement. Your bureaucrats did not tell you the exact thing that how could you expect me to be told with such by the same people. I am not sure that I wouldn't be labeled an ISI, right at the time I am there.

 

[Lurch Adams]

Thanks for the invitation.

The channels being used by the agencies are more of a kind of like a web that sometimes newbies are lost and tangled that couldn't make it to the right point. What Najam Sethi said is something that Hamid Mir and Sethi have been busy throughout their career to do so and more onto that, do you know, Sethi is the one that had links with BLA/BRF/BLF in seventies around. He is one of the most controversial person that NS appointed in Government ranks, proven that how R&AW is busy doing her business that it isn't always about terrorism through blasts and killings but there are different way for such espionage. With respect to debate and sources, Sethi, Asma and Mir alike are most favourite connections for Indians. What about CM Delhi, if I am not wrong, the guy who asked for strikes proof and being labeled as traitor then NDTV being labeled as ISI Channel, furthermore people like Barkha etc that are mostly painted as ISI not through the public but indeed such business is at high & who does it, you know.

The terrorists, so far we have apprehended, are validating the same connection. For the mere example and a reference, search the confession video of Kulbhushan along with Mehsud, that was captured from NDS/R&AW Convoy in Afghanistan by Americans and soon handed over to Pakistan and you will have the idea as well that to what extent R&AW has been doing things until & unless you did not make you mind to totally discount or try here to paint R&AW as most innocent under cover of incapable that like we are not aware of, aren't we?. Pakistan is very well aware of such capabilities of R&AW throughout more than couple of decades that what it is up-to and can do and such experience cannot be just brushed away like this.

It is not about crediting unnecessarily but there are things indicates and proves about R&AW involvement. Your bureaucrats did not tell you the exact thing that how could you expect me to be told with such by the same people. I am not sure that I wouldn't be labeled an ISI, right at the time I am there.

I have followed some of the work that Sethi has done. He went to jail for it. IMO Pakistan is lucky to have voices like Najam Sethi, Hassan Nisar, Asma Jahangir, Pervez Hoodbhoy, Cyril Almeida, etc. Now you may think that I like them because they have a particular slant to their writing. But they speak and write on varied subjects, not just Pak-India relations. I guess liberals share common sensibilities and I admire them as such.

About the tendency to see conspiracy in the words of Kejriwal or Barkha Dutt - that is indeed unfortunate. They have as much right to express an opinion as anyone else. But then these rights must be respected universally. There has been a frequent call from Pakistan for respecting freedom of speech, protection of minority rights, etc., in India, which are much less respected in Pakistan itself. I agree that India needs to do a lot more to become a truly free and progressive society. But Pakistanis would be better served by realizing that they expect others to follow moral standards which they themselves as a society refuse to uphold.

 

[The Eagle]

I have followed some of the work that Sethi has done. He went to jail for it. IMO Pakistan is lucky to have voices like Najam Sethi, Hassan Nisar, Asma Jahangir, Pervez Hoodbhoy, Cyril Almeida, etc. Now you may think that I like them because they have a particular slant to their writing. But they speak and write on varied subjects, not just Pak-India relations. I guess liberals share common sensibilities and I admire them as such.

Speaks volume so indeed a certificate how things are working. I would say, we don't need an enemy where we have people like Asma, Hoodbhoy and Sethi and your attraction is nothing new for me in these circumstances.

About the tendency to see conspiracy in the words of Kejriwal or Barkha Dutt - that is indeed unfortunate. They have as much right to express an opinion as anyone else. But then these rights must be respected universally. There has been a frequent call from Pakistan for respecting freedom of speech, protection of minority rights, etc., in India, which are much less respected in Pakistan itself. I agree that India needs to do a lot more to become a truly free and progressive society. But Pakistanis would be better served by realizing that they expect others to follow moral standards which they themselves as a society refuse to uphold.

Why to discount India w.r.t. rights of Government in-case of freedom of speech for Kejriwal etc because it is against the national interest so you like my enemy and I do the same with you, is the game mostly played hence no direct involvement. Nationalism wants you to see what happening in Pakistan, not what GoI is doing, but to the extent whereby you are not able to see what going around. The respect for minorities by the Government is nowhere less than any other country expects by the Law though down in the line, that again comes to the pawn and sold-out people, that mostly attack others as being well paid by the adversary. You can't judge Pakistan that your own yard is filled with all of such things but still, you see what we have been discussing about R&AW's doing as you are clearly discounting India but to blame Pakistan for everything. You are dong the same job what they want you to do and it is like copy pasting the same narratives. I am not going towards the minority thing in India that you know well but the subject about R&AW involvement in Pakistan is pretty clear for us. You count mine and I count yours, mishandling etc, but wouldn't change the reality only as what you are trying to prove it that, is nothing but the same as others have a mindset about Pakistan.