17 Indian Army soldiers killed in Uri attack

[Spectre]

What are the alternatives? We effectively dismantled all our intelligence operations by 1997 in neighbouring countries. Vajpayee banned RAW from action against foreign countries.

What do you expect? A full blown war? I am all for it, just free our hands of no first use policy, because the moment we ingress 15 kms into Punjab, the nukes will come .....

So, what do you suggest?

A limited strike in P0K?

We can do that ... but the political capital we loose? Is it worth it?


What we can do .. is target raise the costs for Pakistan which is forced to act against these groups on its soil

I think limited strike in PHK is warranted - Yes we will loose political capital and may be some investors will put out too.

In the long run though it establishes red lines and precedents. I am no fan of aggressive military posturing but then if we don't establish costs then it our lack of action acts like a positive incentive for other sides to keep pushing. However if they meet a brick wall - may be they will stop? Either way we don't know until we try it.

I agree with @Abingdonboy here - any response has to be documented in public domain - unsanctioned ops are unlikely to have the same effect and in absence of Indian ownership can be spun away by the other side to keep up the moral.

 

[Hellfire]

Every time, every single bloody time that the CRPF gets slaughtered in large numbers in Chhatisgarh, it is because of this lazy, American habit of taking to wheels rather than staying off the road.

Unfortunately, it happens. In an ambush a certain driver stops his vehicle ... inspite of being third time getting ambushed .....idiots never learn !!!!!

 

[nair]

They got lucky in fuel being loaded and unloaded and hence my suspicion of an insider involved ...

If there was an insider then it is a big big failure of both the intel..... External and counter......There would have been enough exchanges to raise the alarms........ Most likely these guys must have sneaked in yesterday night and straight got into action.......

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

It is, no better. Enjoy the hard facts.

Are you prepared to go to war?

If you are, please go and enlist ..

Do you think the people in Army dont want to? We are a civilian led nation. Not a military led one.

War might not be a solution, whilst Army might to do changing operations requirement during change of commands. But the terrorists have come with perfect intel. I dont care. Either I want open bombing of occupied Kashmir training apparatus or tit for tat inside Pakistan. I know like most of the soldiers in IA, the soldiers in PA are humans too. Soldiers as well.

But we cannot allowed to be bled, innocents killed for the military leadership of Pakistan. Pay back in same coin.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I refrained from the morning this thread simply bcz of the emotional aspects running wild.

1. Priority atm should be to give the martyrs a proper send off and also see to it that within next 24 hours their remains reach their family and their hometown for last rites.
2. In next 24/36 hours a CCS would anyway happen for so called discussing what action needs to be taken.
3. In an event of this attack any overt ops will be counter productive bcz there will be a simple response to this and the so called rhetoric will be one word only - Nuclear and the whole world will run to call Modi to "please' remain calm and give them (US, China etc) a chance to talk with pakistan
4. In case if its a covert ops as a response, we will end up straight into the trap saying we also employ proxies in teh same manner like say our neighboring country.
5. The status of response have to be tehre but it does not need an immediate response. One must be calm like a sniper to wait for the right time to take the shot rather than thinking like a AK47 and using automatic mode to spray the bullets and pray to God a good rate of connect and a descent kill shot. Emotional response will be AK47 type, a proper thought out response can be the sniper head shot
6. The apparatus can be many for a appropriate response. I am sure @hellfire already knows who are mobilised and already given a call for quick response as and when needed + on the way deployment to the positions as envisioned under the "plan"
7. Finally one word of caution. Do not force the government into a corner to push them to a corner in order to extract a response which may be hasty and counter productive.
8. Political will is a big word. if this PM Modi has political will then in a short time period all so called wanted men in other countries can be neutralized. Political will is not a emotional response system rather it has to be a proper thought and planned move bcz once taken you cant back out of it midway like earlier times.

 

[nair]

I think limited strike in P0K is warranted - Yes we will loose political capital and may be some investors will put out too.

In the long run though it establishes red lines and precedents. I am no fan of aggressive military posturing but then if we don't establish costs then it our lack of action acts like a positive incentive for other sides to keep pushing. However if they meet a brick wall - may be they will stop? Either way we don't know until we try it.

I agree with @Abingdonboy here - any response has to be documented in public domain - unsanctioned ops are unlikely to have the same effect and in absence of Indian ownership can be spun away by the other side to keep up the moral.

Can you spell 3 actions which you could suggest.... Let us discuss it further (i do not if i missed few posts of you inbetween)

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I am afraid you will be dissappointed to learn that they is not better than UPA.......(on this matter)

I know. My conscience tells me war wont happen and its not good either for Indian Economy. Maybe my anger is asking for an immediate reaction. There is a reason why they are leaders.

 

[waz]

Bombings of terrorists camps in Occupied Kashmir. In India its very tough even to get a pistol. Automatic rifles are out of equation. The way Pakistan churned out Kargil and lied about its own soldiers have given India and Indians enough reasons not to trust the security apparatus propaganda in your nation.

Its a simple case of cross border terrorism. The people involved might be Pak nationals or Kashmiris themselves. But weapon and training? If Pakistani forces are incapable of stopping terror training camps on their side of control, then India should try to do it. If Bombing of camps is war, then war will we support.

What Sanctions? Who will sanction us? US might do it for 1 year at best. That's it.

The world will sanction Pakistan and India, very quickly and for a long time, to prevent the conflict from getting bigger. When two states who armed with nuclear weapons are locked into a fight, that's not a normal situation anywhere. Your post is very naive to say the least. Military strikes, and you support war? Are you going to enlist?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The world will sanction Pakistan and India, very quickly and for a long time, to prevent the conflict from getting bigger. When two states who armed with nuclear weapons are locked into a fight, that's not a normal situation anywhere. Your post is very naive to say the least. Military strikes, and you support war? Are you going to enlist?

Please read my post 680 and 683.

 

[salarsikander]

This is dangerous; but let me stall for time by asking you to clarify: which tension? That between Pakistan and India? Or that between separatist Kashmiris and the security forces, the government in Kashmir and the government in Delhi?

BTW, I prefer to be 'absent', on leave, if you like, although I do keep up with any discussions which are worthwhile. This is specifically in response to you.

Fair enough, So I shall ot insist you further on this topic.
I understand your reason for being 'Absent'. But Sire always enlighten us with your deep knowledge and in-depth analysis which no troll can ever dream to match

 

[Hellfire]

I think limited strike in P0K is warranted - Yes we will loose political capital and may be some investors will put out too.

It does not work that way. The only sensible and possible action is striking the launch pads of the ingressing elements. They are known and identified.

That they are co-located with PA posts, is a happenstance though not obligatory. The PA troops have nothing to do with these elements for plausible deniability.

This may happen, who knows. It shall effectively send messages to all concerned. Has happened earlier, in 12 Brigade Sector itself, where a fire assault was carried out in 2012.

In the long run though it establishes red lines and precedents. I am no fan of aggressive military posturing but then if we don't establish costs then it our lack of action acts like a positive incentive for other sides to keep pushing. However if they meet a brick wall - may be they will stop? Either way we don't know until we try it.

Any conflict resolution requires Political dialogue. When you do something openly, it leaves very little space for that. You don't resolve a conflict, merely perpetuate it. Do not mistake conflict management and resolution.

I agree with @Abingdonboy here - any response has to be documented in public domain - unsanctioned ops are unlikely to have the same effect and in absence of Indian ownership can be spun away by the other side to keep up the moral.

The aim is to send a message. That will be sent. Be rest assured.

 

[nair]

I know. My conscience tells me war wont happen and its not good either for Indian Economy. Maybe my anger is asking for an immediate reaction. There is a reason why they are leaders.

There is a difference between us (including those politicians and parties out of power) and a government...... They do not work to satisfy our egos..... They work to keep us safe, or make the damage as low as possible...... Modi govt is not different..... only thing that He has been portrayed by his 56 inch "chathi" by his supporters..... Otherwise he is a PM lust like any other guy in office.....

 

[Dazzler]

Nothing for your ready denials yet.....

Hurry man, we are anxiously waiting for more tissue papers, toilet rolls, soap rappers and toothpaste tubes.

Naaa.. We learnt our lessons....

So any idea as to what type of dossier we should expect this time around?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

It does not work that way. The only sensible and possible action is striking the launch pads of the ingressing elements. They are known and identified.

That they are co-located with PA posts, is a happenstance though not obligatory. The PA troops have nothing to do with these elements for plausible deniability.

This may happen, who knows. It shall effectively send messages to all concerned. Has happened earlier, in 12 Brigade Sector itself, where a fire assault was carried out in 2012.




Any conflict resolution requires Political dialogue. When you do something openly, it leaves very little space for that. You don't resolve a conflict, merely perpetuate it. Do not mistake conflict management and resolution.



The aim is to send a message. That will be sent. Be rest assured.

yar lala G.. Modi considers Nawaz Sherif as his asset
and Nawa Sherif is sheltering the guys in Muredkay and south Punjab as his political muscle .. he wont allow rnagers operation against them in Punjab.. I dont know how this will work

 

[Hellfire]

If there was an insider then it is a big big failure of both the intel..... External and counter......There would have been enough exchanges to raise the alarms........ Most likely these guys must have sneaked in yesterday night and straight got into action.......

Insider - Kashmiri porter/defence civilian employee, truck driver, owner, relative ... that is what I mean by civil.

One anecdotal incident. A pakistani SSG guy posing as a porter penetrated one RR unit. Easily copied data from office computers and while leaving left a note laughing at Indians ...

happens. It is not unknown. A porter took 7 heads in 2007 of Indian Soldiers, drugged the soldiers on an isolated post by drugging food and took the heads. The rate was Rs 5 lac for Officer, 2 lac for soldier and further down.


No ... they might have crawled all night long ... it is fun to crawl along and no one notices as you are crawling so slow.