15 Years in the Afghan Crucible : NYT

[DSM0305]

mmmm, well it may have been handled badly by the Americans but at the end of the day it is the Afghans' country -- not the Americans.



Fair enough let us examine the following:

1. The Kabul Bank Scandal
2. The Karzais -- a leading political family, all lived abroad in the US -- became billionaire at the expense of the US Taxpayer
3. The ghost soldiers in the ANSF
4. The collusion in drug trade by the Afghan elite
5. The suitcases full of dollars leaving for Dubai

As an example in WWII the American elite put a freeze on raises -- that is where the concept of benefits comes from: since companies could not give raises to employees -- they handed out benefits: health care, etc.

So no -- there is a reason Afghanistan is the world most corrupt country (or there abouts) -- Afghans squandered a golden opportunity -- they have 80 TV channels but not a single engineering school or hard sciences school of note. This is no fault of the American.

A few years ago I wrote that in the AUAF there were more Pakistani professors than Afghans -- in hard sciences, mathematics and computer science. So again, just the US has 500,000 Afghan Americans (the same as the Pakistani Diaspora) -- how is it that there are more hated Pakistanis teaching key subjects in AUAF than there are Afghans.

Food for thought? definitely

Its the US who provides the aid and it is them who handles the aid. And they handled it badly, so I fail to see how you keep coming to the conclusion that it is Afghans fault. The exact same thing will occur even in Europe and the US, if the money got handled the same way. Even today people find incredible loop holes to cheat the society in even the least corrupt countries.

Who in gods name told you that Afghanistan doesn't have engineering universities... you Pakistanis get deluded more and more as the days goes by. Several family members of mine are engineers graduated in Afghanistan, so Pakistanis stop with your ignorance. The day I joined this forum, I have seen nothing but ignorance regarding Afghanistan. You guys haven't stepped a foot inside Afghanistan and yet for some odd reason claim to be experts regarding Afghanistan...

Just in Kabul there several universities:

• Hope High School in Afghanistan
  
• Afghanistan Technical Vocational Institute (ATVI)
• Afghan National Security University (AFNS)
• Afghan University[5]
• Afghanistan Institute Of Higher Education
• American University of Afghanistan
• Bakhtar University
• Burhanuddin Rabbani University
• Computer Based Training Institute
• Daneshwaran Afghan Educational Institute
• Dawat University
• Dunya University of Afghanistan (DUA)
• Gharjistan University
• Ibne-sina Institure of Higher Education
• Information and Communication Technology Institute
• Kaboora Institute of Higher Education
• Kabul Education University of Rabbani
• Kabul Health Sciences Institute
• Kabul Medical University
• Kabul University
• Kardan University
• Karwan University
• Kateb University
• Khana-e-Noor Institute of Higher Education[8]
• Khatam Al-Nabieen University[9]
• Maiwand Institute of Higher Education
• Mariam Institute of Higher Education
• Mohmand Institute of Health Sciences
• National Military Academy of Afghanistan
• Peshgam Institute of Higher Education[10]
• Polytechnical University of Kabul
• Qalam institute of health science
• Qalam institute of higher education[11]
• Rana Institute of Higher Education
• Salam University

There is probably built far more by now. You guys need to understand that Afghanistan isn't the way you Pakistanis are told by your military/government.

 

[pakistani342]

Its the US who provides the aid and it is them who handles the aid. And they handled it badly, so I fail to see how you keep coming to the conclusion that it is Afghans fault. The exact same thing will occur even in Europe and the US, if the money got handled the same way. Even today people find incredible loop holes to cheat the society in even the least corrupt countries.

As I mentioned -- the same thing could not happen in the US or Europe because the popular will will not let it.

Who in gods name told you that Afghanistan doesn't have engineering universities... you Pakistanis get deluded more and more as the days goes by.

There is not a single Engineering school worth it's name in Afghanistan -- I challenge you to point me to one. And I mean a decent school and I'll point you to school the Somalis have built without aid that are kick ***.

Several family members of mine are engineers graduated in Afghanistan, so Pakistanis stop with your ignorance.

Precisely -- do you know the wherewithall that goes into producing an engineering graduate -- the process starts in Kindergarten

The day I joined this forum, I have seen nothing but ignorance regarding Afghanistan. You guys haven't stepped a foot inside Afghanistan and yet for some odd reason claim to be experts regarding Afghanistan...

I debated an AUAF faculty member (on the Internet) how they were teaching some of the courses on the roster -- my argument was that no Afghan kid had the preparation to study the subject ...

Just in Kabul there several universities:

• Hope High School in Afghanistan
  
• Afghanistan Technical Vocational Institute (ATVI)
• Afghan National Security University (AFNS)
• Afghan University[5]
• Afghanistan Institute Of Higher Education
• American University of Afghanistan
• Bakhtar University
• Burhanuddin Rabbani University
• Computer Based Training Institute
• Daneshwaran Afghan Educational Institute
• Dawat University
• Dunya University of Afghanistan (DUA)
• Gharjistan University
• Ibne-sina Institure of Higher Education
• Information and Communication Technology Institute
• Kaboora Institute of Higher Education
• Kabul Education University of Rabbani
• Kabul Health Sciences Institute
• Kabul Medical University
• Kabul University
• Kardan University
• Karwan University
• Kateb University
• Khana-e-Noor Institute of Higher Education[8]
• Khatam Al-Nabieen University[9]
• Maiwand Institute of Higher Education
• Mariam Institute of Higher Education
• Mohmand Institute of Health Sciences
• National Military Academy of Afghanistan
• Peshgam Institute of Higher Education[10]
• Polytechnical University of Kabul
• Qalam institute of health science
• Qalam institute of higher education[11]
• Rana Institute of Higher Education
• Salam University

There is probably built far more by now. You guys need to understand that Afghanistan isn't the way you Pakistanis are told by your military/government.

No my hear -- let's analyze the faculty -- curriculum -- the qualifications of the instructors, etc. All you have done is posted a list of institutes claiming to be universities.

I assure you -- before Neil Armstrong landed on the moon -- we know to precise detail what the composition of the lunar surface was, what the temperature would be, etc. One does not need to step foot in Afghanistan to point out that 1+1 cannot = 3

I challenge you let is pick 5 good engineering schools in Afghanistan and dissect them. And that challenge is open to @A-Team or any other Afghan.

 

[DSM0305]

As I mentioned -- the same thing could not happen in the US or Europe because the popular will will not let it.

As I explained before several times, it will happen if the money was handled in the same manner

There is not a single Engineering school worth it's name in Afghanistan -- I challenge you to point me to one. And I mean a decent school and I'll point you to school the Somalis have built without aid that are kick ***.

All of them is worthy of it name,

Precisely -- do you know the wherewithall that goes into producing an engineering graduate -- the process starts in Kindergarten

No, the only process that starts in kindergarten is called brainwashing. It has no affiliation with engineers.

I debated an AUAF faculty member (on the Internet) how they were teaching some of the courses on the roster -- my argument was that no Afghan kid had the preparation to study the subject ...

You knew that because you went there I guess

No my hear -- let's analyze the faculty -- curriculum -- the qualifications of the instructors, etc. All you have done is posted a list of institutes claiming to be universities.

Be my guest and analyze them

I assure you -- before Neil Armstrong landed on the moon -- we know to precise detail what the composition of the lunar surface was, what the temperature would be, etc. One does not need to step foot in Afghanistan to point out that 1+1 cannot = 3

Last time I checked, the moon didn't have 30 million citizens and a complex political situation, but I could be wrong. I mean apparently Pakistanis know something the rest of the world doesn't

I challenge you let is pick 5 good engineering schools in Afghanistan and dissect them. And that challenge is open to @A-Team or any other Afghan.

They're all good. Go ahead and dissect them.

 

[pakistani342]

As I explained before several times, it will happen if the money was handled in the same manner

All of them is worthy of it name,

Come on be serious -- I'm not interested in school yard brawls

No, the only process that starts in kindergarten is called brainwashing. It has no affiliation with engineers.

Again -- really ???

You knew that because you went there I guess

No but here is what I did:
1. I looked at the faculty
2. The qualification of the faculty (How many PhDs)
3. Were the faculty teaching what they are trained to teach -- for example is a PhD in Chemistry teaching Chemistry as part of General Science or part of Chemistry
4. What was the composition of the staff (how many Afghans vs Afghan Americans vs Pakistanis vs ...)
5. What was the curriculum like -- was it rigorous enough
6. Would an Afghan student have the preparation for a the curriculum
7. Did they have faculty who could teach the curriculum. For example some of the courses in the AUAF MBA curriculum -- there were no professors qualified to teach the stuff and further it was doubtful that Afghanistan's school system could produce students who would understand the stuff.

Be my guest and analyze them

Again I was proposing that in good faith -- perhaps we can help each other understand -- I have been looking at AUAF and some other schools and they cannot compete with B-Tier schools in Pakistan or Somalia.

Last time I checked, the moon didn't have 30 million citizens and a complex political situation, but I could be wrong. I mean apparently Pakistanis know something the rest of the world doesn't

No again your statement has no argumentative power -- Afghanistan like other countries does get analyzed based on metrics, facts, make analogies, using anecdotes, etc. That is what we try to use here on this forum -- I for one would love to add more Afghans to that type of inquiry.

They're all good. Go ahead and dissect them.

Sure -- could you post some references to back up your assertion in-terms of:

1. Curriculum
2. Faculty
3. Research output
4. etc.

Punchline: If I were to guess -- you have not done your homework -- if you had you would have responded with specific facts, information, anecdotes, etc.
Conjecture: Sadly if ignorance is demonstrated here it is by the Afghan members -- more so than the other members of the forum and this can be extended to the Afghan elite at large.

 

[Khan_21]

Its the US who provides the aid and it is them who handles the aid. And they handled it badly, so I fail to see how you keep coming to the conclusion that it is Afghans fault. The exact same thing will occur even in Europe and the US, if the money got handled the same way. Even today people find incredible loop holes to cheat the society in even the least corrupt countries.

Who in gods name told you that Afghanistan doesn't have engineering universities... you Pakistanis get deluded more and more as the days goes by. Several family members of mine are engineers graduated in Afghanistan, so Pakistanis stop with your ignorance. The day I joined this forum, I have seen nothing but ignorance regarding Afghanistan. You guys haven't stepped a foot inside Afghanistan and yet for some odd reason claim to be experts regarding Afghanistan...

Just in Kabul there several universities:

• Hope High School in Afghanistan
  
• Afghanistan Technical Vocational Institute (ATVI)
• Afghan National Security University (AFNS)
• Afghan University[5]
• Afghanistan Institute Of Higher Education
• American University of Afghanistan
• Bakhtar University
• Burhanuddin Rabbani University
• Computer Based Training Institute
• Daneshwaran Afghan Educational Institute
• Dawat University
• Dunya University of Afghanistan (DUA)
• Gharjistan University
• Ibne-sina Institure of Higher Education
• Information and Communication Technology Institute
• Kaboora Institute of Higher Education
• Kabul Education University of Rabbani
• Kabul Health Sciences Institute
• Kabul Medical University
• Kabul University
• Kardan University
• Karwan University
• Kateb University
• Khana-e-Noor Institute of Higher Education[8]
• Khatam Al-Nabieen University[9]
• Maiwand Institute of Higher Education
• Mariam Institute of Higher Education
• Mohmand Institute of Health Sciences
• National Military Academy of Afghanistan
• Peshgam Institute of Higher Education[10]
• Polytechnical University of Kabul
• Qalam institute of health science
• Qalam institute of higher education[11]
• Rana Institute of Higher Education
• Salam University

There is probably built far more by now. You guys need to understand that Afghanistan isn't the way you Pakistanis are told by your military/government.

How many of these ' Engineering ' universities are decent enough ? Because I have a friend from Kabul who doesn't have a good thing to say about any institute in Afghanistan. The only place that was above average was Kabul university according to him .