15 June 2020, 3 Years After Galwan Clash

[Bill Longley]

In Our Program Discourse with Col Asad (Retd) I discussed Galwan Vally clash of 2020 and the lessons learned by the Indian Army and Political Elite.

Clausewitz's definition of war as "a continuation of political intercourse, carried on with other means" suggests that political policymakers and the military should have aa close relationship. However, in the case of India, there appears to be a lack of synchronization between the two.

The Indian government has denied that China has encroached on Indian territory in Ladakh, despite the fact that the Indian Army has acknowledged that the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) has occupied 1800 square kilometers of Indian land. This disconnect between the two branches of government could have serious consequences.

If the government continues to deny that China has encroached on Indian territory, it could lead to a loss of morale among the Indian troops who are stationed in Ladakh. It could also make it more difficult for the government to negotiate a resolution to the dispute with China.

On the other hand, if the government were to acknowledge that China has encroached on Indian territory, it could lead to a public outcry and calls for a more aggressive response from the government. This could put the government in a difficult position, as it would have to balance the need to protect Indian interests with the need to avoid a conflict with China.

The lack of synchronization between the Indian government and the Indian Army is a serious concern. It is important for the two branches of government to work together to develop a unified strategy for dealing with the Chinese threat in Ladakh. Otherwise, India could be caught unprepared for a possible conflict with China.

Here are some possible reasons for the lack of synchronization between the Indian government and the Indian Army:

* *Different priorities:* The government may focus more on economic development and avoiding conflict with China, while the Army may focus more on protecting India's territorial integrity.

* *Different cultures:* The government and the Army have different cultures, which can make it difficult for them to communicate effectively.

* *Lack of trust:* The government may not trust the Army to act in its best interests, or vice versa.

Whatever the reasons, the lack of synchronization between the Indian government and the Indian Army is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. If India is to effectively deal with the Chinese threat in Ladakh, the two branches of government need to work together to develop a unified strategy.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Indian friends should understand. Before India became a country (it did not exist before 1947). These territories have always belonged to China.

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

The Indian government has denied that China has encroached on Indian territory in Ladakh, despite the fact that the Indian Army has acknowledged that the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) has occupied 1800 square kilometers of Indian land.

@GreatHanWarrior Depsang Bulge

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566349003561877506

If you see the chain of places where the negotiations have been carried out over the last two-and-a-half years, Patrolling Point 15 is one more centerpiece in the whole chain which runs through the Y junction on Raki Nalla, Galwan river (PP14), Patrolling Point 15, PP 17 Alpha, Pangong Tso north and Pangong Tso south bank.

This is a chain of locations which provide access towards Aksai Chin and the Depsang Bulge.

Patrolling Point 15 is a pass on the ridge line. The pass is called Jianan La.

By climbing the pass up PP 15, Indian troops can reach the depth areas of the Galwan river, and also get access towards the Depsang Bulge.

Therefore, the PLA wanted to deny or stop the movement of our troops in this area. That is it took such a long time to finally arrive at a consensus for the creation of the buffer zone at PP15.Indian troops posed a threat to the PLA if they had crossed PP15. Hence, it would have been painful for the PLA to allow Indian troops to patrol up to PP15.

The troops have now disengaged at PP15.

The buffer zone means that Indian troops will not patrol to the end of PP15 and the Chinese will not come towards PP15.This PP15 buffer zone has pushed Indian troops a little away while the PLA has pulled back similarly, thus creating a safe zone. It may suit the Chinese who do not want fisticuffs, brawls and scuffles that used to take place regularly for years.

The same thing is true at other friction points. We were patrolling up to Finger 8 earlier, we are not any longer. The Chinese are also patrolling up to Finger 4, they too can't patrol up to this area.We have a post in PP3 -- Dhan Singh Post -- but we didn't have a post in Finger 4 or Finger 8.

At each one of these buffer zones, both forces have distanced and disentangled themselves.

Our troops used to patrol up to this area and have a look around. The PLA used to also patrol the area. It may give PLA some satisfaction of having achieved a buffer zone protecting their own troops from the fisticuffs and scuffles. But they have also pushed us away from the patrolling areas.

It's a no win situation for either side.

In Depsang Bulge, we did not have permanent posts in areas of Raki Nala, PP10, 11, 12 or 13, but went for patrols to those areas and the Chinese used to also patrol up to the area of Burtse which they claim as in the 1959 claim line.

So by creating this buffer zones, neither are we able to patrol the areas we were patrolling earlier nor the Chinese are able to patrol the areas they were patrolling.

It is a denial on both sides. A no win situation and that is where the situation rests now

 

[Bill Longley]

@GreatHanWarrior Depsang Bulge

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566349003561877506

If you see the chain of places where the negotiations have been carried out over the last two-and-a-half years, Patrolling Point 15 is one more centerpiece in the whole chain which runs through the Y junction on Raki Nalla, Galwan river (PP14), Patrolling Point 15, PP 17 Alpha, Pangong Tso north and Pangong Tso south bank.

This is a chain of locations which provide access towards Aksai Chin and the Depsang Bulge.

Patrolling Point 15 is a pass on the ridge line. The pass is called Jianan La.

By climbing the pass up PP 15, Indian troops can reach the depth areas of the Galwan river, and also get access towards the Depsang Bulge.

Therefore, the PLA wanted to deny or stop the movement of our troops in this area. That is it took such a long time to finally arrive at a consensus for the creation of the buffer zone at PP15.Indian troops posed a threat to the PLA if they had crossed PP15. Hence, it would have been painful for the PLA to allow Indian troops to patrol up to PP15.

The troops have now disengaged at PP15.

The buffer zone means that Indian troops will not patrol to the end of PP15 and the Chinese will not come towards PP15.This PP15 buffer zone has pushed Indian troops a little away while the PLA has pulled back similarly, thus creating a safe zone. It may suit the Chinese who do not want fisticuffs, brawls and scuffles that used to take place regularly for years.

The same thing is true at other friction points. We were patrolling up to Finger 8 earlier, we are not any longer. The Chinese are also patrolling up to Finger 4, they too can't patrol up to this area.We have a post in PP3 -- Dhan Singh Post -- but we didn't have a post in Finger 4 or Finger 8.

At each one of these buffer zones, both forces have distanced and disentangled themselves.

Our troops used to patrol up to this area and have a look around. The PLA used to also patrol the area. It may give PLA some satisfaction of having achieved a buffer zone protecting their own troops from the fisticuffs and scuffles. But they have also pushed us away from the patrolling areas.

It's a no win situation for either side.

In Depsang Bulge, we did not have permanent posts in areas of Raki Nala, PP10, 11, 12 or 13, but went for patrols to those areas and the Chinese used to also patrol up to the area of Burtse which they claim as in the 1959 claim line.

So by creating this buffer zones, neither are we able to patrol the areas we were patrolling earlier nor the Chinese are able to patrol the areas they were patrolling.

It is a denial on both sides. A no win situation and that is where the situation rests now

there is an indian retd colonal who is chief editor of a well respected defence magzine. see what he has to say

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

there is an indian retd colonal who is chief editor of a well respected defence magzine. see what he has to say

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion friend. What I'm talking about is facts on the ground not some cheap propaganda to defame the Indian Armed Forces

 

[Bill Longley]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion friend. What I'm talking about is facts on the ground not some cheap propaganda to defame the Indian Armed Forces
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My dear friend Mr swahney is world famous and is no cheap. Wise learn from mistakes and fools insist on repeating

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

My dear friend Mr swahney is world famous and is no cheap

@CallSignMaverick @MirageBlue @INS_Vikrant @Vikramaditya-I World famous

 

[CallSignMaverick]

My dear friend Mr swahney is world famous and is no cheap. Wise learn from mistakes and fools insist on repeating

lol no

 

[hembo]

@CallSignMaverick @MirageBlue @INS_Vikrant @Vikramaditya-I World famous

World famous in Pakistan.

 

[Bill Longley]

Yawn

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

there is an indian retd colonal who is chief editor of a well respected defence magzine. see what he has to say

He is only respected is Pakistan and pDF.

He usually talks bS with no credibility to get the attention on YouTube and earn some money.

 

[Acharya Chanakya]

Indian friends should understand. Before India became a country (it did not exist before 1947). These territories have always belonged to China.

Chinese friends should understand that before china became a country in 1949 ( it did not exist before that), Indian empires influenced the landmass that is known today as china by civilising them by giving them Buddhism and Buddhist texts. Otherwise the people of your country would have no culture of their own to show to the world.
Thus, the landmass that is known today as china should also be part of India as it is influenced heavily by Indian culture and traditions.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Chinese friends should understand that before china became a country in 1949 ( it did not exist before that), Indian empires influenced the landmass that is known today as china by civilising them by giving them Buddhism and Buddhist texts. Otherwise the people of your country would have no culture of their own to show to the world.
Thus, the landmass that is known today as china should also be part of India as it is influenced heavily by Indian culture and traditions.

Indian friends should learn some human common sense. This is different from the regime change in China in 1949. The standard for judging a country is～ Does it have a central government. Does it have a central army. Does it have independent diplomacy. Does it have independent laws.... It's obvious. India did not exist before 1947.

I thought Tang Dynasty diplomat Wang Xuance had already told you this human common sense when he conquered northern India.

 

[Acharya Chanakya]

Indian friends should learn some human common sense. This is different from the regime change in China in 1949. The standard for judging a country is～ Does it have a central government. Does it have a central army. Does it have independent diplomacy. Does it have independent laws.... It's obvious. India did not exist before 1947.

I thought Tang Dynasty diplomat Wang Xuance had already told you this human common sense when he conquered northern India.

if you consider an empire with a central government to be a country then India became a country with the formation of the Mauryan empire in 302 BCE which had a centralised army, bureaucracy and government. While the Qin Dynasty in china formed 80 years later. Thus by your logic India is older than china. Perhaps you learn some world history other than the crap that is taught to you by your clumsy emperor Xi.

 

[Leishangthem]

if you consider an empire with a central government to be a country then India became a country with the formation of the Mauryan empire in 302 BCE which had a centralised army, bureaucracy and government. While the Qin Dynasty in china formed 80 years later. Thus by your logic India is older than china. Perhaps you learn some world history other than the crap that is taught to you by your clumsy emperor Xi.

You are all over the place. You forgot the vital difference between India and china .China as a nation is direct continuity.

ROC inherited the nation from Qing after 1912 revolution.Followed by Communist party overthrow of the ROC party ,which is typical change of gov in civil war.
Qing was always recognized as china,same as ROC,same as PRC.

Now compare with India.

Did any state recognized any nation called india in 1856? NO!

And this was the state of sub continent before capture by the british.

Which of them is India?

There would be atleast 4 nation state out of this.




*If buddhism is such a civilizing force why lndians are still uncivilized,not that buddhism shaped china,the poorly educated Indians bs is not fit for outside world.