$15 billion Saudi bailout likely

[Cyberian]

I would rather put the country mind and resources to work and create wealth.
We have plenty of resources to takle the crisis inhouse in a matter of few years without aid but we are addicted to begging.

Think of arid desserts of Baluchistan, some 15 different tree species which can be grown fast in arid dessert, sewage water = raw material for renewable energy. ...

... and you're going to spend your life savings in order to acquire the technology to mine those resources which costs in the region of tens of billions of dollars?

Brother, Pakistan's national budget for 2012-2013 was $33 billion. Out of that 57% ($18.8 billion) was spent on debt repayment and around $6.2 billion went to the military. Now you have only $8 billion left for a nation of 183 million people.

How much of the $8 billion you're going to spend on the 750,000 school teachers' wages in the country? What about the police, nurses, pilots, doctors, etc.? How much you're going spend in building new schools, colleges, universities, new roads, bridges, etc. and how much you're going to spend on maintaining them? What about acquire new trains, planes, ships, etc.? Remember, you only have $8 billion.

Now a dam costs around $8 billion to build and a nuclear plant (or reactor) costs around $5 billion to build

Where are you going to get the money needed to mine Thar Coal? What about exploring gas and oil in the country?

It's ok to have a wish list brother but in reality these things cost money, a lot of money and when governments don't have the money, they don't have the luxury of day dreaming.

Again, how much of your life savings you going to spend on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

 

[Edevelop]

I don't trust SA however, 99% of the people here are taking this into something else. Stay on topic. The package is for the import of Oil on deferred payment to deal with energy crisis

 

[Jackdaws]

OFF topic... these hindus have all the freedom on this forum.

Off topic? It is a direct quote from the article. I find it ridiculous that cancellation of hunting licences can be a factor in reducing or stopping aid. Hunting rabbit? Or is it endangered species? And why can't they hunt in Arabia itself?

 

[That Guy]

Prepare to be labelled Biased, Sectarian and what not for asking this question.

The problem isn't the question, the problem is the amount of assumptions behind the question, so instead of continuing to base your opinions on assumptions, maybe people would actually take your comments seriously if you actually based your question's intentions on something substantial, instead of the same boring argument that's been proven false to death...Just a thought :|

This is why it is important for Pakistan to have both IP and TAPI so we can negotiate for the Gas price. IP alone will be a monopoly and not good for Pakistan from a negotiation point ( as Pakistan would be in a weaker position to negotiate).

Also, Pakistanis should keep in mind that this Iran Pakistan Pipeline will only provide enough gas to produce 4000 megawatts of Electricity ( which is only half of our total shortfall of Electricity).

TAPI is undo-able, it would cost Pakistan more than it could afford (we barely payed for the IPP and most of the money came from Iran), and not to mention that it would cross from Afghanistan and the Tribal agencies, so there is no guarantees of it's safety. Unless the Americans can give a guarantee of it's security and it's completion (which they can't) TAPI is just a pipe dream (no pun intended).

 

[That Guy]

Off topic? It is a direct quote from the article. I find it ridiculous that cancellation of hunting licences can be a factor in reducing or stopping aid. Hunting rabbit? Or is it endangered species? And why can't they hunt in Arabia itself?

I have to agree with you, hunting shouldn't factor into global politics and relations with other nations. Besides, I've never liked these rich Arabs who think (they own Pakistan) hunting Pakistan's beautiful wild life, and in many cases, endangered wildlife.

 

[That Guy]

I don't trust SA however, 99% of the people here are taking this into something else. Stay on topic. The package is for the import of Oil on deferred payment to deal with energy crisis

It's hard to stay on topic when you have certain members trying to stir up sectarianism in the threads.

 

[iPhone]

here we go again....the easy way out from our politicians....the proverbial begging bowl syndrome....NS and his govt. will not take the hard decisions by forcing the public sector companies to pay their electricity and gas bills, will not tax the traders community, will not tax the agriculturists/land owners who are squeezing this country dry, will not end the SRO culture of tax exemptions for NS's business 'cronies'. yes he will tax the salaried class.....pathetic state of affairs.....we know already that nothing is going to change even before NS has taken the oath as PM.

If taxing the business community is the solution to gain state revenue then why does the US rely on China's loan to run its economy to some extent. US has much better tax system and tax rate, it would be very easy, why don't they increase taxes on their buisness companies?

Answer is simple, they in turn will increase prices on their goods and inflation will set where unemployment rate is already high. Same fate awaits Pakistan if they put a tax squeeze on their buisness communities. They will increas their prices and Pmln will blamed for "mehngai".

It's very easy to sit here and pass comments on someone's buisness and energy plan. It's totally different when you're in charge and have to calculate every minute effect of your decision.

 

[Jango]

If taxing the business community is the solution to gain state revenue then why does the US rely on China's loan to run its economy to some extent. US has much better tax system and tax rate, it would be very easy, why don't they increase taxes on their buisness companies?

Answer is simple, they in turn will increase prices on their goods and inflation will set where unemployment rate is already high. Same fate awaits Pakistan if they put a tax squeeze on their buisness communities. They will increas their prices and Pmln will blamed for "mehngai".

It's very easy to sit here and pass comments on someone's buisness and energy plan. It's totally different when you're in charge and have to calculate every minute effect of your decision.

Atleast recover the gas and electricity bills from the factories, mills, households and government offices...you can do that without inflating the prices of goods.

Something which Salman Shahbaz said a few days back on Dunya TV, the subsidy on electricity is being availed by everyone, by a millionaire living in DHA to a news anchor to a politician. Similarly, it is being used by me and my relatives while the truth is that we can live without electricity subsidy. We are pretty well off but we still consume electricity on subsidy. Raiwind palace, Imran Khan house, other such places all can pay up the bills without a subsidy.

So what Salman Shahbaz proposed was a system through which only the needy and poor would get subsidy on electricity prices and not everyone, so a rich businessman won't be getting subsided rates but a poor man living in a one bed house will. A good suggestion if you ask me.

 

[iPhone]

Atleast recover the gas and electricity bills from the factories, mills, households and government offices...you can do that without inflating the prices of goods.

Something which Salman Shahbaz said a few days back on Dunya TV, the subsidy on electricity is being availed by everyone, by a millionaire living in DHA to a news anchor to a politician. Similarly, it is being used by me and my relatives while the truth is that we can live without electricity subsidy. We are pretty well off but we still consume electricity on subsidy. Raiwind palace, Imran Khan house, other such places all can pay up the bills without a subsidy.

So what Salman Shahbaz proposed was a system through which only the needy and poor would get subsidy on electricity prices and not everyone, so a rich businessman won't be getting subsided rates but a poor man living in a one bed house will. A good suggestion if you ask me.

Great suggestion. I agree with you wholeheartedly. All unpaid bills from regular folks to big coorporation must be collected. But that can't happen over night. That's mid to long term plan.

You're gonna send a one big gigantic bill to a mill or a corporation or someone's house, you think they're gonna fold and pay you right away? They're gonna fight it, go to court, which could take months to years.

And meanwhile electricity shortage is NOW. Crippling the industry and economy and sleepless hot nights of the summer. I tell you this, if I had no power in my house and it was this hot, I wouldn't care if the govt made the deal with the devil to get me electricity.

That's how the average people of Pakistan are feeling right now. They couldn't care less where the damn power came from, as long as it came. That's what pmln is doing right now. If getting this 15b from Saudia is as bad as many of you are suspecting, then even then it's leaps and bounds better than taking years to fixing it yourself by going crazy on the taxes.

 

[Zarvan]

I am sorry for earlier reply as I shouldn't have targeted you by name.


Agreed that we need tax reforms and double the tax collection to get rid of budget deficits. But it is still not enough, we need institutional reforms in every sector. Major chunk of your budget will still be wiped off in repayment of foreign loans and subsidies. You will still need money/loan/private investment to generate electricity as your budget is still too little to get rid of this petty issue and then we talk about education, health, transportation, infrastructure, terrorism, security and stable economy.



If it does comes with strings attached, we will have to assess what it is. IMF loans also comes with strings attached but the only positive development of this bailout package is, it's not cash, you are not paying interest on top of it, you have 3 years to use the money and then pay off later when we are hoping to be in much better position. 3 years deferred payment means, the oil you will receive in 2013 will be paid in 2016, the oil you get in 2015 will be paid in 2018.


If that was true, PML-N wouldn't get 240 seats out of 297 in Punjab and would have been seized to Lahore only. Just like PPP was seized to Sindh. I am not their fan, just being realistic.

@ topic

If the 15 billions dollars are coming in expense of Iran-Pak gas pipeline then Saudis can keep it to themselves. If it is for other sake as a loan similar to 1998-2001 - then most welcome and highly appreciated

@Zakii this package is not rumour it was asked by nawaz even before coming to power and nusrat Javed told some shocking thing yesterday that Saudis may ask Pakistan and some other Muslim countries to send troops in Syria after bashar is taken out to maintain peace

 

[Jango]

Great suggestion. I agree with you wholeheartedly. All unpaid bills from regular folks to big coorporation must be collected. But that can't happen over night. That's mid to long term plan.

You're gonna send a one big gigantic bill to a mill or a corporation or someone's house, you think they're gonna fold and pay you right away? They're gonna fight it, go to court, which could take months to years.

And meanwhile electricity shortage is NOW. Crippling the industry and economy and sleepless hot nights of the summer. I tell you this, if I had no power in my house and it was this hot, I wouldn't care if the govt made the deal with the devil to get me electricity.

That's how the average people of Pakistan are feeling right now. They couldn't care less where the damn power came from, as long as it came. That's what pmln is doing right now. If getting this 15b from Saudia is as bad as many of you are suspecting, then even then it's leaps and bounds better than taking years to fixing it yourself by going crazy on the taxes.

Why is somebody going to go to court for getting an electricity bill? That is outrageous.

Unless we start finding faults within and collecting taxes and stand up on our feet, not even a 50 billion package will help us and we will be in slavery for eternity.

2 years down the road, people will start cursing this loan id the situation doesn't change and instead we become more of a breeding home for madrassas.

I hope that this ends well...

 

[raazh]

This is another big trap coming in for Pakistan. It is being financed by KSA but orchestrated by USA. In ex-change they would definitely want us to

1 - Cancel Iran gas pipline,
2 - Hold or neglect work on Thar coal for power generation and keep on using expensive Oil for power.
3 - Delay the Gwadar port development and Chinese energy corridor development.
4 - Allow USA to take out all its $60 billion worth of equipment from Afghanistan safely.
5 - No resistance to CIA drone attacks and meddling in Balochistan against Iran.

Now the question is what did the Chinese Premier talk with Nawaz in their private 1-1 meeting. Will the Chinese wait another 5 years and let USA play its dirty games here or will they take a more active and bold support for Pak.

 

[Elmo]

I see the swift Saudi-Sharif brother effects - winds of change?

 

[Jzaib]

its to early to saw ..they should aviod giving lolipops to the naive awaam ... they should finalize deal backdoor and then annonce it ... People are given falls hope everytime then they are disappointed ...

 

[Porus]

There is no such thing as a free lunch. What does Pak need to do to justify this huge amount of zakat?