12th Oct; Black day in Pakistan's political history !

[Jungibaaz]

never given a chance?

))))) the issue is that coups have been made with support of democratic political parties.

True. But it hasn't been given a chance.

When talking about governance of an entire nation, with the multitude of problems Pakistan has had to deal with in it's history... there is no quick fix, and this is what's wrong with the average Pakistani's mentality, they always want a free ride, no effort and no pain. Truth is, no pain, no gain.

Democracy is no quick fix, it takes a very long time, and needs to be aided and done properly. Pakistanis never gave it chance to blossom and the time it had, it was corrupted by greedy folk.

I understand why folks don't like democracy, but I reserve my view.

 

[Spring Onion]

True. But it hasn't been given a chance.

When talking about governance of an entire nation, with the multitude of problems Pakistan has had to deal with in it's history... there is no quick fix, and this is what's wrong with the average Pakistani's mentality, they always want a free ride, no effort and no pain. Truth is, no pain, no gain.

Democracy is no quick fix, it takes a very long time, and needs to be aided and done properly. Pakistanis never gave it chance to blossom and the time it had, it was corrupted by greedy folk.

I understand why folks don't like democracy, but I reserve my view.

Th everage Pakistani mentality had given and has given chance to democracy and democratic forces by voting for them. Its the elite mentality which had supported the military hands for quick fixes for own interests.

We do not expect anything from military as far as governance is concerned but we do expect from civilian govts and thats why onus is on civilian govts whatever time period they got.

Even this time Nawaz and Co tried best to overthrow zardari through Kiyani but the military refused to be part of such a plan

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Yes you are correct in the sense that their is a overt/covert consensus(charter of democracy 06 en all) among the political parties that democracy should prevail but the civil-GHQ divide is still there and we have the kerry lugar bill as a helper to democracy,things could change post 2014-15 .

Still ISI is not under the PM in actual sense ,FP and indo-afgan issues are still handled by pindi.

Btw i would like to know what steps mush took that no further coup could be done ?



Thanks

Contrary to his initial couple of years of rule, he cut loose any restraints on media.

Reconstruction and developments of the national security council,which was aimed to develop trust between the military and political regime.Though PM Gillani abolished the National Security Council in 2009, i think it was a suitable platform.

He tried to make judiciary his puppet which later on turned against him.Which as a reaction made judiciary independent.And hence another pillar of democracy got strengthened to defend itself and the democracy at large.


Today the parliament is strong,thanks to the confidence shown by the masses.The media is free.Judiciary is independent.There is a nice working relationship between the military leadership and the political regime.All of these constituents & the recipe show that the food will be tasty unless it's overcooked.

 

[Armstrong]

And I suppose We - the People - go scot free in all of this....right !

We - the People - were, after all, the first in line to support every Dictator that saw it fit to dismiss what he & we believed to be an incompetent & thoroughly corrupt government after all !

 

[S.U.R.B.]

And I suppose We - the People - go scot free in all of this....right !

We - the People - were, after all, the first in line to support every Dictator that saw it fit to dismiss what he & we believed to be an incompetent & thoroughly corrupt government after all !

I agree with Jungibaaz.You "the people" were never given the chance to relish the fruit of democracy both by the so called Babas of democracy "the politicians" and the military dictators.Had you people have developed the taste for it you would have seen the resistance against such an act with your own eyes & felt that in your own heart and mind.
That is in fact most unfortunate.

 

[F.O.X]

Democracy was never given a proper chance.

You can't plant a trees and uproot them before they grow properly and then ask, why aren't they baring fruits yet?

Democracy had equal chance .. in fact Politicians ruled the country more then the Army .. so the fact about not getting a chance is nothing more then a BS .. who Appointed Musharaf ( even though he was not legally capable for it ) Who Appointed Zia ( even though he was a Junior ) .. Politicians screwed every time & Blamed it on Army .. even today what happened Last Five Year .. what is Happening Now .. what do you think will happen in Next 5 years ? ...

So Please Spare me the old mambo jambo that Politicians never had a chance .. they got plenty of Chance .. and they messed it up every time . even now .. 7/10 people in the streets want Army to come & Kick these Politicians out ..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Today on 12th october 1999, the military general pervaiz musharraf over threw the people's elected representative govt of Mian M. Nawaz Sharif and sat himself as the military dictator and ruled the country illegal and then rectified himself through the PCO order till was sent forcefully out by lawyer's movement.

his rule over the country, despite economic progress made under his dictatorship, is marked as dark period of the country, as dictators have always coup the elected governments in Pakistan by the force of military institution.

hoping for democracy to continue and the military to learn its lesson and donot repeat its mistakes and let the system run.

It was the right thing to do and the nation was behind the General.

Black days was when NS committed treason

Th everage Pakistani mentality had given and has given chance to democracy and democratic forces by voting for them. Its the elite mentality which had supported the military hands for quick fixes for own interests.

We do not expect anything from military as far as governance is concerned but we do expect from civilian govts and thats why onus is on civilian govts whatever time period they got.

Even this time Nawaz and Co tried best to overthrow zardari through Kiyani but the military refused to be part of such a plan

A lot has changed over the years.

Yes you are correct in the sense that their is a overt/covert consensus(charter of democracy 06 en all) among the political parties that democracy should prevail but the civil-GHQ divide is still there and we have the kerry lugar bill as a helper to democracy,things could change post 2014-15 .

Still ISI is not under the PM in actual sense ,FP and indo-afgan issues are still handled by pindi.

Btw i would like to know what steps mush took that no further coup could be done ?



Thanks

Who the ISI is or isn't under isn't your business or concern

By the way there are both civvy and military intel services in the country. And they are answerable to parliament.

 

[Armstrong]

I agree with Jungibaaz.You "the people" were never given the chance to relish the fruit of democracy both by the so called Babas of democracy "the politicians" and the military dictators.Had you people have developed the taste for it you would have seen the resistance against such an act with your own eyes & felt that in your own heart and mind.
That is in fact most unfortunate.

Dude lets face it - We the People - are hypocritical to the core !

We welcomed the first Dictator because we were getting rid of an incompetent & corrupt government ! Then a year or two into his reign we wanted him out as well because he wasn't up-to-the-mark either ! Later when welcomed a transition into democracy & when we found out 'Oi yeh tou Dictator hiii isss sei behtaaar thaaa' we welcomed another dismissal of that civilian Government & allowed another Dictator to come in ! And then so on & so forth with the '90s being the most fun era of them all - more dismissals with a big one to top it up & then 2-3 years into the reign 'Dictator Bad - Democracy Good'...another year into Civilian Hands & we were saying 'Yaaar Mushy hii behtaaar thaaaa' & so the cycle continues !

 

[batmannow]

It was the right thing to do and the nation was behind the General.

Black days was when NS committed treason



A lot has changed over the years.

nation is still behind, that genrl, if not why not fight him so called democratic politics?
no the cant, cause he can bring the real sunami of change, with his proven slogan?
yes pakistan comes frist!

 

[Leader]

Death to anyone who harms this country , Be it Democracy or Marshal law ... isn't this better ?

Democracy doesnot harm, so yes death to dictators and their marshall laws.

It was the right thing to do and the nation was behind the General.

Black days was when NS committed treason



A lot has changed over the years.



Who the ISI is or isn't under isn't your business or concern

By the way there are both civvy and military intel services in the country. And they are answerable to parliament.

r


The only traitors are Dictators who kept on destroying the STATE.

Death to dictators and their marshall laws.

 

[Leader]

I agree with Jungibaaz.You "the people" were never given the chance to relish the fruit of democracy both by the so called Babas of democracy "the politicians" and the military dictators.Had you people have developed the taste for it you would have seen the resistance against such an act with your own eyes & felt that in your own heart and mind.
That is in fact most unfortunate.

Its in these people's gene to be slave of some medieval King or Caliph; new form dictators. they cannot change because they never moved to know they are enchained generation after generation after generation, they have lived as slaves and hence hail the king/dictator all the time and their uneducated minds glow only limited sense of how to evolve into better persons and better societies !

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Dude lets face it - We the People - are hypocritical to the core !

We welcomed the first Dictator because we were getting rid of an incompetent & corrupt government ! Then a year or two into his reign we wanted him out as well because he wasn't up-to-the-mark either ! Later when welcomed a transition into democracy & when we found out 'Oi yeh tou Dictator hiii isss sei behtaaar thaaa' we welcomed another dismissal of that civilian Government & allowed another Dictator to come in ! And then so on & so forth with the '90s being the most fun era of them all - more dismissals with a big one to top it up & then 2-3 years into the reign 'Dictator Bad - Democracy Good'...another year into Civilian Hands & we were saying 'Yaaar Mushy hii behtaaar thaaaa' & so the cycle continues !

You may be my friend but i'm not. (Never mind armstrong will stay strong against any of such shots)

It's not that simple.We were tamed.Tamed by the stick.We were an immature nation (if you talk of democracy and the coups) to be knowing any fine details that could alter our fate to such an extent.
So, what do you do then?
You find refuge under an eligible leadership, that can hold your rein towards success.Behaviors are developed.Nations are trained for the rainy days and not tamed for obedience.
So, we have learned the hard way around and that young child has grown old now to be subdued by another "mere aziz bewaqofoo".

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Its in these people's gene to be slave of some medieval King or Caliph; new form dictators. they cannot change because they never moved to know they are enchained generation after generation after generation, they have lived as slaves and hence hail the king/dictator all the time and their uneducated minds glow only limited sense of how to evolve into better persons and better societies !

In a sense you agree to the fact that the weapon of these wadera come politicians to keep the masses uneducated was used against them.Had they did their homework.Or have they availed their chance to strengthen the democratic norms, develop the nation and educate them to strive for their right.It would've been another story for them.

 

[jaibi]

They're a very real threat, Leader.

So did when musharrfo was thrown out.

Death to Dictators and their marshall law!



bunch of mountain guerrillas are no threat to the mighty state of Pakistan.

and yes, I believe too that it was the last time marshal law ever took place in Pakistan. InshAllah..

 

[Panther 57]

Today on 12th october 1999, the military general pervaiz musharraf over threw the people's elected representative govt of Mian M. Nawaz Sharif and sat himself as the military dictator and ruled the country illegal and then rectified himself through the PCO order till was sent forcefully out by lawyer's movement.

his rule over the country, despite economic progress made under his dictatorship, is marked as dark period of the country, as dictators have always coup the elected governments in Pakistan by the force of military institution.

hoping for democracy to continue and the military to learn its lesson and donot repeat its mistakes and let the system run.

Today Duniya TV showed a documentary on 12th October. As expected it was a pep talk on behalf of NS. In the trailer they claimed that they will unveil the untold. But nothing except crap. Whole documentary was worded in such a fashion as if Gen Mush was the culprit, but those who can correlate what was said in that documentary will agree that it clearly showed NS was wrong. E.g. They portrayed that Mush was invited at Raiwind where Abaji acted as mediator and NS embraced Mush. The dinner ended on a confidence building note, yet within few days Mr NS decided to fire him, his visit to Dubai with Gen Zia Butt. NS, Hamza and Gen Zia talking against Gen PM. Only evidence which was shown during the whole program was the cockpit recording, which definitely goes in favour of Gen PM. It was actually Gen Zia who was along with NS were conspiring against Gen PM.

I think Gen PM was lenient with him, NS should have been tried under army act or article 6. I wonder what will happen after 29th Nov when a new person comes in, people already fed up of inflation and taxation and One eyed boxer on his way out. Like people recall good days under Gen PM, NS will remember his leniency.

All politicians including IK are men of straw.