120,000 Indian troops for Afghanistan or hot air

[el nino]

India will tell the world its para military troops.

But don,t be surprised if it includes special forces from both india and Israel.

I think india is readying to fight covert operations againt taliban both in Afghanistan & Pakistan..

THIS WITH USA BLESSING

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

IF true (no credible sources yet), Indian troops will not operate on Pakistani soil, as El Nino suggests - they would get bombed to smithereens as soon as they set foot.

Deploying these troops will take away from Indian forces in the East, and these troops will not have the support required to really do much in the West, in case of hostilities between India and Pakistan - the terrain will not allow for rapid movement, occupation or assaults, except heliborne (which then become susceptible to air defenses), so not necessarily a huge change in terms of tangible danger to Pakistan.

 

[el nino]

iTS ONLY SPECULATION

But covert sprecial forces against terrorists is a real possiblity.

India special forces are far better trained and aclimtised to fighting in afghan/pak border conditions than any USA ISRAELI or brit.

With regards transport india helicopter and transport fleets dwarfS UK..

OVER 140 TRANSPORT PLANES IL76, AN32 soon C130J

and 300 helicpoters MI17 MI8 & DHRUV

and induians are usede to the weather terrain.

They will prove to be useful;

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

iTS ONLY SPECULATION

But covert sprecial forces against terrorists is a real possiblity.

India special forces are far better trained and aclimtised to fighting in afghan/pak border conditions than any USA ISRAELI or brit.

With regards transport india helicopter and transport fleets dwarfS UK..

OVER 140 TRANSPORT PLANES IL76, AN32 soon C130J

and 300 helicpoters MI17 MI8 & DHRUV

and induians are usede to the weather terrain.

They will prove to be useful;

I disagree that Indian soldier conditioning is superior to that of NATO. You have also not conducted combat operations in this terrain or environment against this type of foe before.

Indian troops, if deployed, will not be useless, but they will not be providing the spectacular improvement or successes you are claiming, except in terms of 'success' that any increase in well trained troops in Afghanistan would provide.

On the issue of heli transport - I am not questioning your heli or fixed wing transport capabilities, just pointing out that the terrain will not allow for these troops to be utilized very successfully on Pakistan's Western border in case of conflict with Pakistan.

Therefore the forces deployed in Afghanistan take away from overall Indian capabilities in the event of a conflict with Pakistan.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

iTS ONLY SPECULATION

But covert sprecial forces against terrorists is a real possiblity.

India special forces are far better trained and aclimtised to fighting in afghan/pak border conditions than any USA ISRAELI or brit.

With regards transport india helicopter and transport fleets dwarfS UK..

OVER 140 TRANSPORT PLANES IL76, AN32 soon C130J

and 300 helicpoters MI17 MI8 & DHRUV

and induians are usede to the weather terrain.

They will prove to be useful;

Do they also use guns of WWII?

 

[Salahadin]

Its a WIn win situation for pakistan

 

[zombie]

well this might cause pak army to focus again on eastern border. Anyways without the nato arranging for alternate supply line any increase in numbers is a waste.

 

[phoenix80]

Do they also use guns of WWII?

are you really sure IA uses world war II guns?

 

[phoenix80]

Hi
I read this post and am active after a reaaaalllllllly long time, what withhaving been kicked out for taking on off topic nonsense and daring people to base on facts.

Anyways few points for discussion as recommended by Ratus Ratus in post 1:

1. The Indian Army has been active in Afghanistan covertly for over a decade now, ever since the rise of Taleban under the tutelage of ISI and PA post Soviet withdrawl. This was necessiated by the fact that the very nature of the "mujaheddin" movement, by its fundamentals being based on jihad and holy war, was misused in first place by ISI and CIA to lead a successful campaign against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan from 1979-88 and the success of the same and improved ability and control of ISI over the same, allowed ISI to direct the same towards Jammu & Kashmir in order to draw out Indian Armed Forces in a long protracted war at minimal costs to Pakistan. India recognised the potential fallout and as such supported the Northern Alliance under Ahmed Shah Masood actively in terms of training, logistics, weapons, funds and supplies and at times with Special Forces elements and SigInt personnel.

2. Indian Special forces elements as also SIGINT is as of today operating within Afghanistan albeit covertly. Majority of visible Indian presence is in the form of Indo-Tibetian Border Police, which is no less a potent force having been reorganised and retrained on lines of IA.

3. The plans for troop placement in Afghanistan has been lngering for about 6-8 years within Indian establishment and is nothing new. It was drawn after the then NDA government gave go ahead for deployment in Iraq with US forces during second gulf war (which later was not formalised and troops despatched were recalled midway due to political indecision). It envisaged introduction of Special Forces and air elements in afghanistan to conduct strikes at groups which may threaten India as also to strengthen Afghan government to ensure that afghanistan is no more a strategic depth tool for pakistan.

4. Another aim is to threaten western border of Pakistan thus forcing it to divert resources (mujaheddin elements) from eastern border of kashmir and sending them into afghanistan thus relieving the pressure in J&K and permitting India to fight in Pakistani backyard and not own territory.

5. No offer for introduction of troops has been made although there have been talks going on informally between Indian and US military planners and politicians for the same for quite some time. Its not because of fear of antagonising Pakistan, but because of Indian indecision for fears of backlash from Muslims in India over such move. (same reason why GoI is criticising Israeli strikes)

6. Incase India decides to move in, there shall be about 4 divisions worth of troops inducted overall (about 60-68 thousand) with strong air and armor element for support. The logistical problem may not be that major now with the Ayani airbase in Tajikistan being operationalised and routes being created from there. This will give a launching pad for any Indian move into Afghanistan.

7. The IA has been involved in CI ops for over 2 decades now extensively and most of the higher echelons till the chief have extensive exposure in the same. As such IA is trained and equipped for such type of operations in such terrain and in fact has been conducting joing maneuvers with British and US forces pre-induction in Ladakh to expose them on how to fight in Afghanistan as part of indoctrination due to similarity in terrain and climate.

8. With development of alternate route through CARs and Russia at advanced stages of negotiations (here Russian interest is similar to NATO-control of muslim fundamentalists who are active in Chechnya too), there shall not be much delay in development of alternate routes rendering Pakistan as a liability.

 

[phoenix80]

I disagree that Indian soldier conditioning is superior to that of NATO. You have also not conducted combat operations in this terrain or environment against this type of foe before.

Indian troops, if deployed, will not be useless, but they will not be providing the spectacular improvement or successes you are claiming, except in terms of 'success' that any increase in well trained troops in Afghanistan would provide.

On the issue of heli transport - I am not questioning your heli or fixed wing transport capabilities, just pointing out that the terrain will not allow for these troops to be utilized very successfully on Pakistan's Western border in case of conflict with Pakistan.

Therefore the forces deployed in Afghanistan take away from overall Indian capabilities in the event of a conflict with Pakistan.

actually , i dont see any scope for conflict with PA in afghanistan until and unless PA initiates it. As long as IA is in afghanistan (if that is) then PA itself will ensure not one militant rests in NWFP and instead goes out to fight IA in afghanistan. Safe haven will be there but ISI would not let anyone rest especially if Indian forces get advantage.

actually you are incorrect. india is considered as a master of high altitude operations and US and UK have been sending troops regularly to india to train and study the techniques for operations in ladakh. also the russian delegation has come to study indian techniques in high altitude and winter warfare to incorporate necessary changes. a high altitude war fighting is way different from the technologically oriented plains fighting. here all advantage in terms of air supremacy etc are negated. also the experience of fighting an insurgent and militant without air and artillery coverage (gained by IA over 25 years now) is something that NATO lacks especially US.

the expansion of forces in arms in terms of Assam Rifles (reorganisation) and Rashtriya Rifles as also ITBP has allowed these units to be trained and equipped like a usual Infantry Unit and AR and RR are officered by regular army officers. As such it has allowed india to raise about 60 additional brigades of 3 units each. as such these forces may see deployement to bolster a comparatively small number of IA units IF AT ALL.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Yes Indians have been developing the Afghan Infrastructure for quit a long time .They have made bridges roads and are planing to build dams. Along with these activities India also wants to be the policeman of Afghanistan like today US is.
The amount of manpower and Money thrown in Afghanistan Did not brought Profit as it did in case of IRAQ but instead The Afghan Buiseness is becoming a loss for the US.
If in the future US or its Allies leave the reagion they want to hand it over to a trustworthy and a strategick partner which is without any dought the Indians.
They donot trust the Pakistan or Iran and Chinese either.

Most likely i think in this case US will provide India All the milletary and Economic Support which we are witnessing to fullfil not only its milletery needs but also its economic plans.
By doing so US will
1. Have influence in the reagion
2. Include a emerging globel power in its loby.
3. It will be a in a position to Have a strategick uperhand over China in this reagion of SouthAsia both in terms of Milletary and Economy.
4. Will prevent tho loss of lives of its soldiers at which alot of people in US are pointing their fingers .
5. Will be able to weken the only Muslim Nuclear Power Pakistan and its worst enemy Iran

US is engaged in breifing the Indians that what will be the dificulties and challanges faced in Afghanistan to Indian Forces.
US is also preparing to workout a deal with Talibans in which US will agree to leave the Reagion But only when the Taliban agree to let Indian forces get fully mechanized in the Afghan reagion. India has good ties with talibans for example the Baitullah Mehsood scenario.
India will provide supplies to its forces through the air base in Tajikistan and will hire transport contractors there.

US CONGRESS will launch milletery and economic deals worth trillion dollars for INDIA

By Sending Forces to Afghanistan India will achieve following objectives :
1. Modranize its massive Armed Forces
2. Become equivalent to that of China
3. Become an Asian Economic Tiger
4. Earn Permenet membership of Security Council
5. Can Defeat and weken its traditional Enemy PAKISTAN
6. Emerge as a ferociuos Global Power In terms of Economy and Milletery

After this US will engage itself at full throtel in CIA covert operations in IRAN PAKISTAN SYERIA YEMEN AND CHINA.

Its my guess the Indians are willing to through their forces in the bloody quicksand of Afghanistan for their dream.
It will be a dream come true for India if that happens But still this plan is on papers and under extensive discussion and we have witnessed its intial stage of execution only.

Its my guess only but it appears logical to some extent.

To me the countries are like peices on chess board on which the game of world dominion is being played out

Lord Curzon Vice Roy of India Speakin out for Afghanistan in 1898

 

[phoenix80]

actually H2O3C4 the whole scenario is a totally theoretical one and has no basis as such for no political party will allow troops to enter en-masse into Afghanistan to be stuck as regional policeman. there is a theoretical question and indian forces will NOT enter afghanistan overtly. covertly operations have been ongoing and will increase in scope.

taliban and India??? are you talking about taliban ---- the one which is brainchild of ISI and which India has opposed in Afghanistan by backing Northern Alliance militarily and still is fighting? The americans strike a deal with them, they accept it to allow india in? That is toooooooo far-fetched. Taliban elements have been pushed into valley also by so called freedom fighters whom Pakistan gives moral support ..... and they have fought with savagery only at the same time killing both soldiers and civilians alike even though they are "fighting" for "freedom" for latter And do you think ISI will let that happen?

Too far fetched and its an open document that ISI backed Taliban overtly till 9/11 and still does till date.

India will enter ONLY as UN force on HUMANITARIAN grounds and will do everything short of overt military intervention to support the Karzai government.

As for modernisation, its well underway and we do not need US to help ..... there are companies dying to enter indian defence market ..... the economy is doing comparatively well (comparision to china) even in todays troubled economic times, and there is progress on economic and social front which is allowing India to enter into defence expansion without thinking about costs. In long run Indian market is simply too huge to ignore and is worth billions even for US companies so they are willing to do business with India.

 

[phoenix80]

in summation ...... the whole thing is hot air .... the listing for field formations in the orbat.com are also incorrect as the formations mentioned can NOT be withdrawn and said general is commanding a corps in J&K

 

[Lockheed F-16]

are you really sure IA uses world war II guns?

Well, Bombay police does

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

taliban and India???

Actually thre is strong evidence gov has, of Indian involvement in supporting Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan led by Baitullah-Mehsood and the miscreants in Balochistan .

And India got that billion dollar nuclear deal from US not just to fullfill its energy demands.
India also obtaining Patriot Missile defence system and long rang Reconisance boing Aircrafts for its navy not just to show off .
There are some extreem concerns not just in Pakistan but Also in Iran and China over recent US-Indian Deals
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149034
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HH12Df01.html
http://web.mit.edu/stgs/pdfs/IndiaAbroadOCR2_October21,2005_2.pdf


You cant deny that Phoenix80