12-million-year-old fossil found in Pakistan raises questions for evolutionists

[XenoEnsi-14]

I don't know anything that you're talking about !

I simply copy pasted nuggets of information on Evolution that I had !

But one thing is certain; its accepted by almost every biologist out there so it must add up !

So far as the Koran is concerned; it supports the theory of evolution as well !

The Koran, bible, and Tanakh etc. are vague, so that through hindsight it looks like it supports such things as evolution.
Just because something is accepted by a majority makes it true? I don't see why people use that kind of argument still.

Yaar let me start of with this
if evolution existed dont you think morons on this planet would have gone extinct or evolved to be better people? That isnt even high level evolution i think...


G animal level....But development of the brain is a totally different context...having a "mutation" which will cause the brain to function as a man not an animal and then having that mutation passed to the next generation and stable is a big big wow!

Why havent more animals (lets go with apes ) evolved to become humans?


again animals....I wanna see 1 evolutionary change which is persistent in humans to make them i dont know evolve into animals....since no other animal is becoming human....


Dear God! Do you know yeast is a single cellular organism so far you can do easy experiments with it but nothing complex! So yes basic systems yes but development of a whole brain....development of thinking and language.....I havent heard the yeast speaking to us yet


lolz


This one I totally believe in and rely on for my experiments.....But microevolution vs creation of an organ or a system is 2 separate stuff....if it was that easy evolution wouldnt be a theory....

You do know that some animals shed their skins, many have many teeth in their lives(snakes) why were these selected and retained?

organ to system level evolution is really questionable! Try fitting a dog's kidney into human and see if the function is similar....or if it can sustain or even an ape's kidney!


lolzz......what did the Physicist say about biology? why didnt he compare physics from the Quran? :-o


I can go with that....by demanding to show me evolutionary stages (in fossil proves) between organs to system level proofs!! Heck even ape common ancestor level proof without the missing link

Bro all these also point to a common creator?

Why are plant leaves green and not black, would that be an engineering process or evolutionary?

 

[Armstrong]

The Koran, bible, and Tanakh etc. are vague, so that through hindsight it looks like it supports such things as evolution.
Just because something is accepted by a majority makes it true? I don't see why people use that kind of argument still.

They are not books of Science so they don't make scientific discoveries the basis of discussion. The only touch on those matters because they are books dealing with mankind and mankind deals with scientific facts hence why they even bother to mention them.

But I didn't really find anything vague when the Koran talked about 'creating us in stages' and 'creating every living thing from water' amidst other things. Which is precisely why medieval Muslim polymaths (who were scientists as well as theologians) supported evolution even before Darwin came up with the idea in its coherent form. It is only recently that with this debate of Creationism raging on in the West did Muslim Creationists, an hitherto unknown and unheard of group, came into being.

 

[jaunty]

Lets patent it before a certain country adds this one to their list of pre historic inventions.

Coming from you it is not a surprise but how do you "patent" a fossil?

 

[Windjammer]

Evolution is not just a theory its a theory backed by a lot of evidence !

You did evolve from Apes !

I evolved from Angels !

The question that comes to mind is, if one was to believe the theory of mankind's evolution is from Apes, then forgive me for asking this, in what shape did Hazrat Adam and Bibi Houva also known as Adam and Eve, appeared as. ??

 

[Armstrong]

The question that comes to mind is, if one was to believe the theory of mankind's evolution is from Apes, then forgive me for asking this, in what shape did Hazrat Adam and Bibi Houva also known as Adam and Eve, appeared as. ??

The way I see it they were the first sentient men and women; the cut-off point between a hominid and a human !

 

[Windjammer]

The way I see it they were the first sentient men and women; the cut-off point between a hominid and a human !

They were indeed the first species of human race.....before that it would just have been the Jurassic period.

 

[Armstrong]

They were indeed the first species of human race.....before that it would just have been the Jurassic period.

Science tells us a different story; before the first man were hominids !

Religion doesn't contradict that !

I dunno what the fuss is all about honestly !

 

[Windjammer]

Science tells us a different story; before the first man were hominids !

Religion doesn't contradict that !

I dunno what the fuss is all about honestly !

My dear, excuse my ignorance but i'm only trying to learn since science and religion both tell us that Adam and Eve were the first for mankind's race, however from religious point, we are also told that there was a period when the sinners were cursed and turned into hominids.
Science can be rather conflicting, for it tells us that the Dinosaurs were wiped out when a giant Meteorite crashed into the Earth, yet in the same breath we are also told that Crocs and Whales are also from Jurassic period, yet the Meteor took a liking to them. !!

 

[Armstrong]

My dear, excuse my ignorance but i'm only trying to learn since science and religion both tell us that Adam and Eve were the first for mankind's race, however from religious point, we are also told that there was a period when the sinners were cursed and turned into hominids.
Science can be rather conflicting, for it tells us that the Dinosaurs were wiped out when a giant Meteorite crashed into the Earth, yet in the same breath we are also told that Crocs and Whales are also from Jurassic period, yet the Meteor took a liking to them. !!

The sinners turning into apes is a metaphorical expression 'Contrary to many of the commentators who take this reference to "apes and swine" in a literal sense, the famous tabi'i Mujahid explains it as a metaphorical description (mathal) of the moral degradation which such sinners undergo: they become wildly unpredictable like apes, and as abandoned to the pursuit of lusts as swine (Manor VI, 448). This interpretation has also been quoted by Tabari in his commentary on 2:65. - As regards the expression "powers of evil" (at-,taghut), see surah 2, note 250.' (Message of the Koran by Leopold Weiss, pg.160)

 

[Windjammer]

The sinners turning into apes is a metaphorical expression 'Contrary to many of the commentators who take this reference to "apes and swine" in a literal sense, the famous tabi'i Mujahid explains it as a metaphorical description (mathal) of the moral degradation which such sinners undergo: they become wildly unpredictable like apes, and as abandoned to the pursuit of lusts as swine (Manor VI, 448). This interpretation has also been quoted by Tabari in his commentary on 2:65. - As regards the expression "powers of evil" (at-,taghut), see surah 2, note 250.' (Message of the Koran by Leopold Weiss, pg.160)

Damn, am i debating with Dr Naik.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Um, Earth is 6000 years old, bye.

 

[Mythal]

Yaar let me start of with this
if evolution existed dont you think morons on this planet would have gone extinct or evolved to be better people? That isnt even high level evolution i think...

Wow.. people who do not have knowledge about something should not comment on it.
P.S. This is not my field of study but I believe I have a respectable amount of knowledge on this topic. There may be a few errors in what I say.
Let me try to describe evolution by natural selection to you in layman terms.
The basic idea is that individuals who have more useful characteristics are more likely to survive and create offsprings and pass on their traits. So after generations characteristics that are more likely will survive and the unfavorable characteristics will fade out.
So now coming to your point, does being a moron have something to do with genes that can be passed from generations to generations? Or does it have more to do with the upbringing and education of an individual?

G animal level....But development of the brain is a totally different context...having a "mutation" which will cause the brain to function as a man not an animal and then having that mutation passed to the next generation and stable is a big big wow!

I am not sure what you are trying to say here, but it seems like you are claiming that we have a mutation that is passed on from generation to generation that makes us humans and if that mutation is removed we would act as animals.
Well that is not true. Human DNA is like a blueprint. Think of it as a design of a building, it started off (billions of years ago) as a piece of brick, but now over time it has evolved into a 100 storey building. We pass on the design of this 100 storey building to the next generation, a few bricks here and there would not make us a completely different building.

Why havent more animals (lets go with apes ) evolved to become humans?

Because humans are not the goal of evolution. Living beings evolve into a form of themselves that is more likely to survive and not into humans.

again animals....I wanna see 1 evolutionary change which is persistent in humans to make them i dont know evolve into animals....since no other animal is becoming human....

ahh.. first of all evolution takes many generations, secondly, why would humans evolve into any other animal. Humans if needed will evolve into a better form of themselves, one that is more likely to survive, but even this change will take generations to be noticeable.

Dear God! Do you know yeast is a single cellular organism so far you can do easy experiments with it but nothing complex! So yes basic systems yes but development of a whole brain....development of thinking and language.....I havent heard the yeast speaking to us yet

Why does a yeast need to communicate? Will it help it survive, is it worth all the overload that will come with the development of a brain?

This one I totally believe in and rely on for my experiments.....But microevolution vs creation of an organ or a system is 2 separate stuff....if it was that easy evolution wouldnt be a theory....

It is not just a theory, it is a scientific theory. Read what a scientific theory is. A scientific theory is not just an idea, it is basically a scientific fact unless proven false. The theory of evolution will not change into a law, because laws and theories are two entirely different things.

You do know that some animals shed their skins, many have many teeth in their lives(snakes) why were these selected and retained?

I am not sure why this happens but I can say that no creature has reached their evolutionary peak and they never will. There is no perfect state, may be these characteristics will eventually fade out, or may be these characteristics are a better more efficient choice than any other alternative.

organ to system level evolution is really questionable! Try fitting a dog's kidney into human and see if the function is similar....or if it can sustain or even an ape's kidney!

Try fitting in a human kidney that is not compatible with your body, even that will not work

 

[Pakistani E]

They are not books of Science so they don't make scientific discoveries the basis of discussion. The only touch on those matters because they are books dealing with mankind and mankind deals with scientific facts hence why they even bother to mention them.

But I didn't really find anything vague when the Koran talked about 'creating us in stages' and 'creating every living thing from water' amidst other things. Which is precisely why medieval Muslim polymaths (who were scientists as well as theologians) supported evolution even before Darwin came up with the idea in its coherent form. It is only recently that with this debate of Creationism raging on in the West did Muslim Creationists, an hitherto unknown and unheard of group, came into being.

Ibn Khuldun in my eyes was the first to state the possibility of the human evolution from archaic ancestors. The West and the non Muslims, unfortunately together with the Muslims have forgotten their own contributions to the world of science.

I recommend everyone to read Ibn Khuldun's works, one of the greatest minds to put pen to paper in my view.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

They are not books of Science so they don't make scientific discoveries the basis of discussion. The only touch on those matters because they are books dealing with mankind and mankind deals with scientific facts hence why they even bother to mention them.

But I didn't really find anything vague when the Koran talked about 'creating us in stages' and 'creating every living thing from water' amidst other things. Which is precisely why medieval Muslim polymaths (who were scientists as well as theologians) supported evolution even before Darwin came up with the idea in its coherent form. It is only recently that with this debate of Creationism raging on in the West did Muslim Creationists, an hitherto unknown and unheard of group, came into being.

23:14 ? No mention of an egg and fertilization is skipped, went straight from sperm to a clot. Sperm is known because it can be observed and the clot can be assumed as a first step and observed from a women's period. Going from a lump of flesh to bones covered in flesh based off the observation that a newborns baby bones harden as time goes by so it's logical to assume that soft things form first then hard things such as bone. No mention of internal organ development besides bones. Then there's the birth.

The books are vague when it comes to science, they deal with morals and other mankind issues. That doesn't mean that they don't support science neither does it mean that they don't support science.

Science can be rather conflicting, for it tells us that the Dinosaurs were wiped out when a giant Meteorite crashed into the Earth, yet in the same breath we are also told that Crocs and Whales are also from Jurassic period, yet the Meteor took a liking to them. !!

Meteors don't wipe out every species, dinosaurs were large and large animals are usually the first to go. Whales would have been safer since the oceans weren't affected as catastrophically. Other species besides dinosaurs went extinct also. And scientists don't think it was just the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, it's possible they were already dying off and some may have lived for a time after the meteor and other catastrophes finally wiped them out.

 

[Mythal]

Meteors don't wipe out every species, dinosaurs were large and large animals are usually the first to go. Whales would have been safer since the oceans weren't affected as catastrophically. Other species besides dinosaurs went extinct also. And scientists don't think it was just the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, it's possible they were already dying off and some may have lived for a time after the meteor and other catastrophes finally wiped them out.

To add to your point, the impact of meteor is not the main reason given for extinction, the climate change that followed, the dust clouds that formed is considered the main cause of extinctions. It is believed that 3/4th of species that existed at that time went extinct because of that.