Featured 10 soldiers martyred, 1militant killed and 3 apprehended when BLF attacked military check post in Balochistan's Kech district

[Signalian]

My thoughts exactly. It is the strategy of post rush, like keep building posts after posts and slowly creep towards the epicenter of enemy activity. Much similar to US firebases in Vietnam, but those bases were virtual fortresses designed to soak in waves after waves.If Pakistan wants to wrest control of vast Baluchistan territory back, it needs to essentially create a few doomsday bunkers, where vast number of defending troops can hunker down for months if need be.If we have such strong fortifications, PAF and PAA could take their own sweet time and provide danger close support when they can. And of course such based could act as ELINT pickets to support offensive ops as well.

No, its not like that. Seems you have no understanding at all. These are not fire bases of Vietnam era. FC and Levies are policing entities.

Failed* Strategy being...

Let the poor chaps on patrols and in checkposts at or around the borders die as long as cities are relatively safe.

Shun intel modernization and reform so we have no sophisticated way to raise the cost for RAW/Doval's operations (e.g., fear of consequences, tit-for-tat attacks, threats that can actually be followed up, etc.)

Stay defensive and follow a non-sensical denial based strategy that even Doval acknowledges was India's mistake for decades since it simply doesn't work. The only thing that works is pressure and introducing heavy costs for actions. All else is bullshit.

Failed strategy keeps the country relatively unstable but has no negative impact on DHAs and pensions/perks/privileges/plots of general officers. Hence it stays.



Insurgencies and terrorist movements with foreign support cannot be defeated, especially in difficult terrain and with porous borders (fencing doesn't change that much), without raising the cost for the foreign backers of the insurgency.

All tactics by "strategists" on PDF revolve around domestic measures whereas the very foundation of deterrence theory and strategic stability is based on the fear of consequences. If the enemy has none (i.e., if Doval and RAW believe they can keep supporting proxies that kill our men, women, and children with minimal personal and national consequences for them, then we are essentially rolling out the red carpet for them).

The ONLY thing that can work is when they know the same will happen in India (proper --- not just IOK, even though we sadly can't even achieve tit-for-tat in IOK, which used to be our backyard). Without fear of consequences, no playground bullies stop. No amount of hollow threats can help (like "befitting response" or "don't mistake our restraint for weakness.") Nobody 'mistakes' it for anything --- if you're having to 'clarify' this, you've already lost.

People need to understand how power really works and flows.

My 2c. Peace.

If such was the case then measures like these would have been taken decades ago during tenures of different COAS's. There are strong reasons why your ideas are flawed and not are not put in action on the ground.

 

[White privilege]

No, its not like that. Seems you have no understanding at all. These are not fire bases of Vietnam era. FC and Levies are policing entities.

We are not conductiong police actions against BLA, are we?? FC units were previously referred as Militia, Rifles and Scouts, each with their own roles,but now they had to evolve into combat formations depending on the threat, including artillery and armor. It's time to evolve. Of course support from PA is always the core basis of such upgradation.What I meant was this strategy is similar to the firebases strategy, and would only work properly with required logistics.Isolated, less fortified posts can't hold out forever against sustained attack waves with sniper support.

 

[Signalian]

We are not conductiong police actions against BLA, are we??

Whats an IBO ?

 

[White privilege]

Whats an IBO ?

A form of dialed down offensive op against discreet enemy hideouts, even so it is by no means a regular police op, because we never expect these rats to surrender and a vicious gunfight is always around the corner.

 

[Signalian]

A form of dialed down offensive op against discreet enemy hideouts, even so it is by no means a regular police op, because we never expect these rats to surrender and a vicious gunfight is always around the corner.

IBOs are conducted against different factions including BLA. These are conducted based on different intel reports and using different forces including Police CTD. FC is not just deployed for sake of BLA, FC has an array of different other responsibilities including policing where required and border management.

 

[R Wing]

No, its not like that. Seems you have no understanding at all. These are not fire bases of Vietnam era. FC and Levies are policing entities.


If such was the case then measures like these would have been taken decades ago during tenures of different COAS's. There are strong reasons why your ideas are flawed and not are not put in action on the ground.

My ideas are based on the fundamentals of deterrence.

You are suggesting that COAS's act blindly in the long-term national interest. I wish this were true.

The key difference is that many in the army are satisfied with the present status quo (in terms of violence levels, deterrence deficit with India in the subconventional space and deniable gray zone, etc.). People pat themselves on the back at the ISI for simply maintaining this 'new normal' versus opening up to the best and brightest of the country to actually conceive creative ways to improve things.

The above has nothing to do with many of the great sacrifices and impressive achievements in some domains by the org. But it doesn't excuse a pathetic strategy with limited vision.

 

[Pak Nationalist]

Failed* Strategy being...

Let the poor chaps on patrols and in checkposts at or around the borders die as long as cities are relatively safe.

Shun intel modernization and reform so we have no sophisticated way to raise the cost for RAW/Doval's operations (e.g., fear of consequences, tit-for-tat attacks, threats that can actually be followed up, etc.)

Stay defensive and follow a non-sensical denial based strategy that even Doval acknowledges was India's mistake for decades since it simply doesn't work. The only thing that works is pressure and introducing heavy costs for actions. All else is bullshit.

Failed strategy keeps the country relatively unstable but has no negative impact on DHAs and pensions/perks/privileges/plots of general officers. Hence it stays.



Insurgencies and terrorist movements with foreign support cannot be defeated, especially in difficult terrain and with porous borders (fencing doesn't change that much), without raising the cost for the foreign backers of the insurgency.

All tactics by "strategists" on PDF revolve around domestic measures whereas the very foundation of deterrence theory and strategic stability is based on the fear of consequences. If the enemy has none (i.e., if Doval and RAW believe they can keep supporting proxies that kill our men, women, and children with minimal personal and national consequences for them, then we are essentially rolling out the red carpet for them).

The ONLY thing that can work is when they know the same will happen in India (proper --- not just IOK, even though we sadly can't even achieve tit-for-tat in IOK, which used to be our backyard). Without fear of consequences, no playground bullies stop. No amount of hollow threats can help (like "befitting response" or "don't mistake our restraint for weakness.") Nobody 'mistakes' it for anything --- if you're having to 'clarify' this, you've already lost.

People need to understand how power really works and flows.

My 2c. Peace.

Make this a separate thread, please. More need to read it. Tag me when you do as well. I would speak there.

 

[Signalian]

My ideas are based on the fundamentals of deterrence.

You are suggesting that COAS's act blindly in the long-term national interest. I wish this were true.

The key difference is that many in the army are satisfied with the present status quo (in terms of violence levels, deterrence deficit with India in the subconventional space and deniable gray zone, etc.). People pat themselves on the back at the ISI for simply maintaining this 'new normal' versus opening up to the best and brightest of the country to actually conceive creative ways to improve things.

The above has nothing to do with many of the great sacrifices and impressive achievements in some domains by the org. But it doesn't excuse a pathetic strategy with limited vision.

The Ops you mentioned- Afghanistan, not India yet. And this has been happening since many years now.

 

[livetracker]

Really sad news.

 

[Kao Boy]

Retaliate with a attack on Indian military post in IOK.

How does attack on Indian forces will resolve this issue its an pakistan's internal matter. they should resolve it within their territory

 

[sur]

Came across another footage
With two rocks used to mark the spot, probably to help the person who was going to detonate it remotely.
. . .

More examples where I think a white rock or whitish landmark was used to help terrorist spotter


Some sort of antennas like things are visible on vehicle, could be jammers or radio antennas?
@RescueRanger @Signalian
I feel that the starter placed meters away to avoid being jammed by jammers?




You see that ditch, there seems to be fireballs appearing along length of the ditch and plume of smoke travelled from far left of ditch towards right end triggering what looks like a rocket

Does it look like some sort of line of gunpowder that was laid along length of ditch, that fused the rocket?

Then rocket? can be seen hitting the vehicle.

I assumed it's a rocket because clearly something ignited & lunged towards vehicle from left side.

just Before attack​

blue rectangle is where fuse went off fraction of second prior to plume travelling (orange arrow) along the ditch
red circle is white landmark where rocket? is embedded

red circles of fireballs, blue rectangle is rocket? launching towards vehicle, red sausage is plume along the length of ditch

​

 

[RescueRanger]

More examples where I think a white rock or whitish landmark was used to help terrorist spotter


Some sort of antennas like things are visible on vehicle, could be jammers or radio antennas?
@RescueRanger @Signalian
I feel that the starter placed meters away to avoid being jammed by jammers?




You see that ditch, there seems to be fireballs appearing along length of the ditch and plume of smoke travelled from far left of ditch towards right end triggering what looks like a rocket

Does it look like some sort of line of gunpowder that was laid along length of ditch, that fused the rocket?

Then rocket? can be seen hitting the vehicle.

I assumed it's a rocket because clearly something ignited & lunged towards vehicle from left side.

just Before attack​

blue rectangle is where fuse went off fraction of second prior to plume travelling (orange arrow) along the ditch
red circle is white landmark where rocket? is embedded
View attachment 907607

red circles of fireballs, blue rectangle is rocket? launching towards vehicle, red sausage is plume along the length of ditch
View attachment 907608
View attachment 907606
View attachment 907605
​

My friend this is called Daisy Chaining. And the actual device is called a splatter charge also known as an EFP(explosively formed penetrator). It was used with lethal effect in Iraq and was a tactic taught by Hezbollah militants.

Different versions exist, some are command operated others use a hardwired sensor such as a PIR(Motion Sensor) that is primed manually or remotely by command.

Abrams vs EFP Basra:

Daisy chaining is nothing new, it’s a method used by engineers and miners to blast things since the invention of gunpowder. EFPs have been used by BLA militants for many many years, as early as 2003 BLA militants were using shaped charged to blow holes in gas pipelines - see image below:

BLA militants using shaped charges to blow up gas pipelines in Sui.
—

But the use of splatter charges is more recent and points to BLA militants receiving advanced IED training from Iran who are experts in EFP manufacture and deployment as seen in Iraq.

The threat from EFPs is present in Pakistan:

Above photo is an EFP disarmed and seized in Balochistan by security forces after an IBO.

Here is another example of a EFP from Balochistan:

you will notice that both are command operated, one is connected to a PMR(walkie talkie), whilst the other has a det cord leading to the primer.

This is what makes countering EFPs so difficult because jammers don’t work, as militants will add failsafes to defeat traditional ECIED equipment such as jammers by using more traditional command operated devices by daisy chaining det cord and using pressure plates, trip wires or motion sensors.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Why Pakistan is such an impotent state? Why? Kahan sai aayi hai yeh buzdali? Kia buzdali hai yeh?

Virus. Corruption.
Corruption = kam chori, chori, na-ahli, rishwat, oppression. Or usper bhi bazid rehna keh ham sb se oper hain.
Virus = kam chor, chor, na-ahl, rishwatkhor, oppressors.

Ilaj= na chori karo, na kerny do, na chor ka sath do. Or her chor, chor hi hai, chahy Imran Khan ho ya aapka saga bhai.

Pakistani qom theek nai hopaeygi. Hamara ilaj next year March se June k dermian hojaeyga. InshaAllah.

 

[fitpOsitive]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1486071992260472840

View attachment 811607

اس چیز کا حل آسان ہے. جس میر اور وڈیرے کے علاقے میں یہ کام ہوتا ہے اسکا علاقہ کسی اور میر کو دے دیا جائے.
اسکے لئے زرا پولیٹیکل انجینیرنگ کی ضرورت ہے، اور میرا خیال ہے کہ جو لوگ خود کو دنیا کا سب سے عقلمند ادارہ سمجھتے ہیں وہ اتنی سی پلاننگ تو کر ہی سکتے ہیں.

 

[kingQamaR]

It's very tough to defeat an IED of that type and it's equally tough to design one.

Regular HE IEDs can be defeated by using a V-bottom for deflecting the blast and adding multiple layers of protection for the vehicle bottom.

Explosively Formed Penetrators can overcome such defenses and cause massive damage to the vehicle and it's occupants. However, the most common type used by insurgents is the Shaped charge kind and MRAPs can withstand hits and protect its occupants.

Tanks use ERA for protection on top and sides. But ERA isn't used on the bottom of vehicles to protect them from such IEDs. EFPs are employed on the CBU-97/105 cluster bombs to target the thin Armour on top of tanks. The only way to defeat them is to destroy the launch platform.

But for an IED, there is no launch platform. It's deployed on the ground and the vehicle has to run directly over it. This ensures that no countermeasure can be employed and the vehicle will surely be destroyed. Tanks and other armored vehicles will be crippled by such an IED and a heavy MRAP will be able to protect its occupants just barely.

The only way to protect yourself is to avoid it