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The difference between modern day Chinese historians and modern day Vietnamese historians is that they believe in myths and legends as a substitute for history ie texts like Shanhaijing for them would be taken at face value,am I to believe that the world consists of demons,gods and bestial humans?

I never asked for a Nguyen era source,the proof I use is already quoted from 欽定越史通鑑綱目 so why are you posting it again? Considering how the constantly claim that a certain Chinese text said this or a certain Chinese text says that,while the text itself doesn't even say this shows that they can't...

Which the 欽定越史通鑑綱目 is quite adamant that they are located in the territory of Nguyen era Vietnam. Are you blind? I've posted the passages in the 欽定越史通鑑綱目 which criticizes the size of Van Lang,would you like me to post passages where the author criticizes the veracity of Vietnamese myths? Why...

Give the exact quote in the Shangshu that the Yuechang presented Emperor Yao with a tortoise,I'm only aware of the Shangshu Dazhuan which claims the Yuechang bestowed white pheasants to the Duke of Zhou. Regardless the passage in the Shangshu Dazhuan doesn't indicate a location,while Zhou era...

In the end you are unable or unwilling to show textual or archaeological evidence that Vietnamese myths are grounded in reality,the source(欽定越史通鑑綱目) I posted dates from Nguyen dynasty where they even argue against the territory of Van Lang exceeding present day Vietnam. Except Sima Qian and Han...

京北 (今北寧地是) 古武寧部 Wuning commandery was located in Jingbei(Nguyen era Beining). 順化(今廣治之海陵至廣南之奠盤地是) 古越裳部 Yuechang commandery was located in Shunhua(Nguyen era Hailing of Guangtai province to Dian Pan of Guangnan province). 安邦 (今廣安地是) 古寧海部 Ninghai commandery was located in Anbang(Nguyen ear...

The text I posted is from the 欽定大南會典事例 which was compiled during the Nguyen dynasty. These non-Han emperors claimed to be Chinese and held sacrifices to honor the previous dynasties,I don't need to go over this again the Yuan,Qing etc all claimed to be rulers of Zhongguo. Look at Qing era...

I have already shown multiple times on this forum I have some sort mastery of classical Chinese yet every single time Vietnamese members all shirk away once I provide my sources. Taihao of the Fuxi clan,Yandi of the Shennong clan Huangdi of the Gongsun clan,Emperor Yao of the Taotang...

You are mistaken that we are engaged in a debate,an exercise in futility is hardly representative of academic rigor. Making absurd claims based on myths and legends while refusing to sources claims,this is not an exception but the norm amongst PDF Vietnamese. The Qing never called itself Man...

You're too incompetent to refute professor Kelley's points,do you have a PHD in Chinese history? The texts that he sources from were written by Vietnamese,unless you are willing to spurn your own history. The fact remains that Chinese deities were worshiped throughout Vietnamese...

I love to bash people who distort history to make themselves look superior or support a nationalistic narrative. Why would I call Vietnamese "monkeys",nationalism,chauvinism and supremacism exist throughout all cultures whether you can rise above is whole different issue. I trust the...

Sigh,you simply don't get it do you,modern day Vietnamese historiography is built on interwoven lies perpetuated by Vietnamese nationalism. You don't address any of my points,all you do is shift the goalpost when you're unable to provide a satisfactory answer. The various Yue didn't see eye to...

You claim that Vietnamese history has little to do with China yet we see a nationalist tradition that is built off distorting Chinese history and trying to pass it as Vietnamese history,ie myths located in modern day China,Chinese deities,Chinese terminology etc. There was no concept of being...

Hanzi is just a label encompassing historical scripts used by Chinese which includes the oracle bone to the simplified ones,both chu nom and chu nho are derived from Chinese. They don't trace their regions directly to the two kingdoms,they trace ancestry to the geographical area therefore the...

Han Nom is based off Hanzi,you really have no clue about Vietnamese history do you.... 嶺南摭怪,粵甸幽靈集,大越史記,大越史記全書,越史略,欽定越史通鑑綱目 etc,these are all written in Hanzi:woot: Then again your take medieval Vietnamese myths at face value,there's not much I can expect from you. The funniest part of it all...

Classic example of cognitive dissonance,this is what happens when Vietnamese can't read Hanzi.

Are you really going to engage in this nationalistic revisionism? You line of thinking reminds me of "The White Man's Burden",I suppose modern day Africans should be thankful for European colonization... Japanese invaded China for their own sake,not for the benefit of Chinese.

I applaud you for your efforts however even conversing with them is like playing lute to an ox,they will never accept that their ancestors embraced Chinese culture instead of rejecting it and are appalled that their own kings had Chinese origins. All I'm trying to state is that you shouldn't be...

It useless arguing with Vietnamese nationalists,they live in their own fantasy world that there was a concept of Vietnam prior to Han annexation and that Vietnam is the center of the world. If you read history you see that the majority of the so called Chinese "invasions" was because Vietnamese...

Ming invaded Vietnam because Vietnamese were raiding Chinese provinces(Yunnan and Guangxi) and allies(Champa),this fact always seems to be neglected by Vietnamese historians.