You ain’t no middleman: EU and NATO slam China’s bid to be a Ukraine peacemaker

[etylo]

The younger Russian population especially identifies with Western values, not Chinese. If the Russians get fed up of the war , Putin gets toppled and free elections are held, Navalny, who leans towards Western democracies, may well come to power. It may look unlikely now, but so did the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The West doesn't want to balkanize Russia. For them, a friendly regime will suffice. For America, the real strategic rival is China. Russia is just a nuisance.

They definitely dont want Russia to have hugh stock pile of nukes that can threaten the survival of the West. Otherwise, they would already fully accepted Russia in the time of Yeltsin and Putin early days.

 

[Paji]

They definitely dont want Russia to have hugh stock pile of nukes that can threaten the survival of the West. Otherwise, they would already fully accepted Russia in the time of Yeltsin and Putin early days.

Well, they had accepted Russia to a large extent. Russia received huge IMF loans and was even included into the G-8. Russia was only expelled from there after the annexation of Crimea.

Yeltsin had a good personal rapport with Clinton and Putin with Bush and Schroeder. Europe agreed to become completely dependent on Russian gas. If Putin did not have imperialist ambitions, Russia would have been on very friendly terms with Europe and at least have a working relationship with the US. In fact, even in his wargaming for the Ukraine invasion, Putin expected Europe to broadly stick with him.

 

[etylo]

Well, they had accepted Russia to a large extent. Russia received huge IMF loans and was even included into the G-8. Russia was only expelled from there after the annexation of Crimea.

The West never truly accepted Russia becos Russia always had independent policy from US and EU. Given some IMF loans and G 8 status were just token gestures to Russia for ending the cold war. Russia was expecting much more, it was expecting the West to bail out or save its failing economy. Also, NATO keeps expanding to Russian borders against its promise not to, and that threathens Russia. Thats why Putin and Russians feel cheated by the West and got really pissed off in the end.

 

[etylo]

All countries that are not client states have independent foreign policy. Even close allies like the US and UK don't agree on everything and the EU and US disagree often. The point is that under Yeltsin and the early part of the Putin regime, Russia had a symbiotic relationship with the West - even close partnerships with certain countries like Germany. Russian oligarchs were welcome in London and other Western capitals. There was even talk of Russia eventually joining NATO.

Russia had lost the cold war and the US expected to have a somewhat similar relationship with Russia as it developed with Germany and Japan after WW2. Many Russians, including Yeltsin, were willing to trade their Soviet Empire for economic prosperity and freedoms enjoyed by Western society. Putin , though, still nursed the grievance of losing the cold war and wanted to rebuild the empire he felt had been lost. In exchange, ordinary Russians are paying the price in terms of lost decades of economic progress and having to live under an authoritarian regime. Not all Russians might share Putin's vision for their country, especially once he is no longer in power.

Russia has too much pride and stake to be treated as Germany or Japan, Russians will never accept such arrangement. Also, Putin has over 70% Russians support consistently.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

STFU bitch, at least appreciate the effort.