Y. The big Why?

[masterchief_mirza]

Whether it was or was not is moot. What is of import today is that religion in public space is a recipe for disaster. USA was born with a certain constitution that actually excluded good % of it's population. Over time they have changed according to time and experiance.

The problem is religion is every man, every mullah, every jihadi begins to think that he is following the path of Allah and some are prepared to kill and die for Allah. This leads to dozen interpretations fighting and clashing. this creates disunity in a country. The Shia-Sunni scism has not been healed for 1,000 plus years. Countries that want to succeed cannot afford to get caught in this theological minefield.

It creates a wholly arbitrary basis for political decision making - as you said - based on variable interpretation, where none can be decisively proved wrong.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

What r u talking about, go to big cities and ull see no difference in dressing and culture to the west. Institutes like lums are more westernized than west. Having bg gf is getting common in city families, see the couple dancing in marriages, see how punjabi and other women threw away dupatta, what culture are u talking about???
The ONLY western values we Pakistanis dont/cant adopt are the ones like honesty, hard work, being truthful, respect, equality, justice. Otherwise whisky and beer are fav of Pakistanis too.

It's not about Western or Islamic values. It's about IQ. Those nations who have a high average IQ are also those nations who have historically been the most successful. Those countries who have a low average IQ also happen to be the countries who have historically been the least developed, most primitive and most barbaric:

IQ by Country - World Ranking of Countries by their Average IQ

What to know what country has the highest average IQ? â What is the average IQ of your country? â Full list of countries by their average IQ - more than 180 countries! â â Find answers about IQ by country here! â¦

new-iq-test.com

 

[masterchief_mirza]

It's not about Western or Islamic values. It's about IQ. Those nations who have a high average IQ are also those nations who have historically been the most successful. Those countries who have a low average IQ also happen to be the countries who have historically been the least developed, most primitive and most barbaric:

IQ by Country - World Ranking of Countries by their Average IQ

What to know what country has the highest average IQ? â What is the average IQ of your country? â Full list of countries by their average IQ - more than 180 countries! â â Find answers about IQ by country here! â¦

new-iq-test.com

Oversimplification.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Success and prosperity is in the DNA. It's caused by a high IQ:

IQ by Country - World Ranking of Countries by their Average IQ

What to know what country has the highest average IQ? â What is the average IQ of your country? â Full list of countries by their average IQ - more than 180 countries! â â Find answers about IQ by country here! â¦

new-iq-test.com

Look at the nations that have a high IQ. Look at those who have a low IQ. What general trend do you see? Explain those generalities. Do not explain the odd outliers or anamolies.

Oversimplification.

It's not bro. It's the truth. Success and IQ are interlinked.

 

[TNT]

It's not about Western or Islamic values. It's about IQ. Those nations who have a high average IQ are also those nations who have historically been the most successful. Those countries who have a low average IQ also happen to be the countries who have historically been the least developed, most primitive and most barbaric:

IQ by Country - World Ranking of Countries by their Average IQ

What to know what country has the highest average IQ? â What is the average IQ of your country? â Full list of countries by their average IQ - more than 180 countries! â â Find answers about IQ by country here! â¦

new-iq-test.com

Well you said Pakistanis dont get westernized and i showed u we are more western than west, in terms of those things i mentioned. Here high class families all act like westerners, talk like them but then lack the honesty of westerners and would never be down to earth like westerners. They just like to showoff.
I would put it on education, training and culture of hard work rather than IQ. Pakistanis are a mixed race and one of the smartest, yet see the situation.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Well you said Pakistanis dont get westernized and i showed u we are more western than west, in terms of those things i mentioned. Here high class families all act like westerners, talk like them but then lack the honesty of westerners and would never be down to earth like westerners. They just like to showoff.
I would put it on education, training and culture of hard work rather than IQ. Pakistanis are a mixed race and one of the smartest, yet see the situation.

We are not smart. Our average racial IQ is 84. Only those nations who have an average IQ of around 100 have historically been successful. We are 16 IQ points short. We need to somehow overcome this:

IQ by Country - World Ranking of Countries by their Average IQ

What to know what country has the highest average IQ? â What is the average IQ of your country? â Full list of countries by their average IQ - more than 180 countries! â â Find answers about IQ by country here! â¦

new-iq-test.com

 

[TNT]

We are not smart. Our average racial IQ is 84. Only those nations who have an average IQ of around 100 have historically been successful. We are 16 IQ points short. We need to somehow overcome this:

IQ by Country - World Ranking of Countries by their Average IQ

What to know what country has the highest average IQ? â What is the average IQ of your country? â Full list of countries by their average IQ - more than 180 countries! â â Find answers about IQ by country here! â¦

new-iq-test.com

And i am sure u know how accurate averages are? Or how accurate the methods of calculating IQ are?? When was the last time any such survey was conducted?
Many scholars even term the IQ as just one part and not representative of the human intelligence. Do u think a person born with low IQ can improve with education and training?? If yes then its all in the education and training.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It creates a wholly arbitrary basis for political decision making - as you said - based on variable interpretation, where none can be decisively proved wrong.

Beautifully said. Because it is question of faith it is impossible to prove otherwise. To the Taliban their version of Islam is true and unlike many their belief in that is so strong that they are prepared to die for it. But does that make their interpretation the Islam? Every Eid and you will see differant dates being set. You can't run countries involving such open, conflicting ideas. Everything will just get bogged down. Then there is the ever prsent descent to madness. Who defines Islam? Yeh corrupt politicians in the assembly. Then where do you stop? Soon one side also wants Shia's to be wiped out. And you know where you end up with. Bombs, mosques being blown up, exploding vests and target killing of each others mullahs. I am always amused about how Muslims are blowing Muslims in Islamic Republic.

In London there is Ahmedi;s on this street corner praying, Shia's across the other street, Sunni in another street all in peace.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

And i am sure u know how accurate averages are? Or how accurate the methods of calculating IQ are?? When was the last time any such survey was conducted?
Many scholars even term the IQ as just one part and not representative of the human intelligence. Do u think a person born with low IQ can improve with education and training?? If yes then its all in the education and training.

They can but not significantly. Tell me, why do nations who have a high IQ have historically been the most successful? While those who have a low IQ also happen to be the most primitive, backward and barbaric nations?

Beautifully said. Because it is question of faith it is impossible to prove otherwise. To the Taliban their version of Islam is true and unlike many their belief in that is so strong that they are prepared to die for it. But does that make their interpretation the Islam? Every Eid and you will see differant dates being set. You can't run countries involving such open, conflicting ideas. Everything will just get bogged down. Then there is the ever prsent descent to madness. Who defines Islam? Yeh corrupt politicians in the assembly. Then where do you stop? Soon one side also wants Shia's to be wiped out. And you know where you end up with. Bombs, mosques being blown up, exploding vests and target killing of each others mullahs. I am always amused about how Muslims are blowing Muslims in Islamic Republic.

In London there is Ahmedi;s on this street corner praying, Shia's across the other street, Sunni in another street all in peace.

Would also help if they did not have a low IQ:

IQ by Country - World Ranking of Countries by their Average IQ

What to know what country has the highest average IQ? â What is the average IQ of your country? â Full list of countries by their average IQ - more than 180 countries! â â Find answers about IQ by country here! â¦

new-iq-test.com

 

[Indus Pakistan]

We are not smart.

I believe we had higher IQ. But century of desi culture of inbreeding has produced physical rejects and mental tards with exceptions being the rule. That is why we excel at weakling sports like cricket but not a chance in footbal, boxing, gymastics etc.

 

[313ghazi]

Also I'd like to say that @Indus Pakistan created a great topic and so far the replies have been great to read. I might not agree with them all but it's nice to read some thought out ideas.

Personally I'm not as pessimistic as OP. The depth of the problem is huge. We have an uneducated, lazy, unmotivated society, the people with the capacity to bring change are those who benefit from the status quo.

I see glimmers of hope. Look at us having this conversation. Look at the slow rise of a middle class. Overseas Pakistanis investing back home rather than supporting families. I think with the rise of an educated middle class and by ending illiteracy we can finally create the environment for change to happen.

The same useless pendus sat in white salwar kameez driving motorcycles and tiktoking all day in Mirpur, become hard working successful people in the UK.

There is nothing to fear but fear itself. We should enable each other rather than hold anyone back. We have huge potential we will succeed inspite of our problems, not fail because of them. We just need encouragement, opportunity and role models.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Personally I'm not as pessimistic as OP.

Don't mind me. I am getting on with years and I guess in hurry to see a developed Pakistan where the name "Pakistan" carries respect. Where I don't see some of my unlucky brothers being shot on the Greek border trying to get to Europe to have a chance at a decent life./

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I believe we had higher IQ. But century of desi culture of inbreeding has produced physical rejects and mental tards with exceptions being the rule. That is why we excel at weakling sports like cricket but not a chance in footbal, boxing, gymastics etc.

Hence we need good breeding and freedom from the shackles of primitive low IQness.


PS What on earth is "desi" culture? Is it a code word for Pakistanis try to act and behave like those from the East of us?........

Don't mind me. I am getting on with years and I guess in hurry to see a developed Pakistan where the name "Pakistan" carries respect. Where I don't see some of my unlucky brothers being shot on the Greek border trying to get to Europe to have a chance at a decent life./

Bro, I love your threads and your way of thinking. You say it how it is and you get right in to the nitty gritty. No political correctness or side steping........

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Bro, I love your threads and your way of thinking. You say it how it is and you get right in to the nitty gritty. No political correctness or side steping

Thanks. I am not here to make friends. I am here to think aloud my thoughts derived from lifetime of reading and considering without the constraints imposed in real life. They call me racist. If that means I think the peoples of the land that birthed Pakistan are superior. Then so be it. Despite all the problems. My frustration is precisely because I think Baloch, Sindhi, Punjabi, Pakhtuns, Kashmiri's or the peoples of the Indus Valey are intrinsically superior then Gangus and could do better.

 

[TNT]

What some people here fail to understand is that we are not true muslims in reality. Yeah we show off being very religious but even kids are raped in madrassahs. Does Islam allow us to do corruption, take bribes, do forgery, lie, cheat, steal, kill???? Islam even tells ur responsible if ur neighbor is hungry. Religion gives u clear orders about halal and haram earnings, do we care? Islam even tells u not to spread a claim unless uve seen proof. Islam tells u not to earn a shred of haram earning and corruption is widespread in the religious country that u ppl think is religious? We are not following Islam in any way.
Now what western values are there that so many here appreciate and want in Pakistan? Having lived in west for long, i know what values they have and those are exactly the values Islam want muslims to have too. Westerners are mostly very truthful and hate liars, they are down to earth, honest, upright, law abiding, hard working, loyal, isnt that all Islam asks u to have as well?
Blame our hypocrisy, because we show off as religious and ready to kill for it but we dont follow the religion at all. We can develop only by shunning hypocrisy and having those qualities, be it through religion or westernization.