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With JSF we give control of N.Australia air space to Indonesia and India

Abingdonboy

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The Australian's foreign editor, Greg Sheridan, has revealed for the first time the choice Australian defence chiefs plan to put before Defence Minister Stephen Smith in a few months.

Smith will be asked to decide whether to buy more F-18 Super Hornets or buy the F-35 – the so-called the Joint Strike Fighter.

Confirming Sheridan’s disclosure, Australian defence officials presented a similar choice to a briefing at the weekend Avalon airshow.

Sheridan and the defence officials gave the same answer to that specific question: If it’s a choice between the Hornet and the JSF, Australia must buy the JSF because the Hornet has limited use in modern warfare.

If only life was so simple.

When Australia’s defence minister is presented with the stark choice of buying the Hornet or buying the JSF, Smith needs to ask another and more important question.

Indonesia plans to buy an incredible 180 of the Russian/Indian Sukhoi fighters, almost certainly including the T-50 PAK-FA T-50 and Su-35S. So the question is not whether the JSF is better than the outdated Hornet, but whether it is better than Indonesia’s Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA T-50 and Su-35S.

Smith should, of course, first ask defence chiefs for an answer but he needs to remember that the answer will come from officials in both Australia and the US who have staked their careers on the JSF. They can only give one answer.

Smith must get opinions from defence experts outside the US and Australian defence officials. There are plenty of people to go and see. Smith will soon discover that the latest defence slogan – 'first look, first shoot, first kill' – works against the outmoded Hornet but not against the Sukhoi. The Sukhoi is just too good.

For example, the JSF can operate effectively only to a maximum of around 40,000 feet (it can fly higher but loses operation impact at higher levels). By contrast the Sukhois can operate at full capacity at much higher levels and with that advantage they have systems and weapons that could blast an Australia JSF and its pilot out of the sky before they had a chance to 'first look, first shoot, first kill'. No dogfight required.

If Australia and the US chose the JSF we give control of northern Australian air space to Indonesia, and India in the 2020s. China also has an aircraft that looks better than the JSF. It’s not a question of predicting invasion but rather the knowledge that the countries to our north have air power, which we cannot match.

So Smith’s next question should be: ‘Is there any other alternative or are we doomed to be less than second rate?'

Thank goodness there is. The US has a magnificent aircraft the F-22A Raptor, which was mothballed when it was believed that the JSF would be more effective. If the software systems that have been developed for the JSF were incorporated in an aircraft of the calibre of the F-22 we would be back in business.

Both political parties share responsibility for the JSF. To risk dooming Australia to being a second rate air power a few months before the next election is really unfair. Smith should take it out of politics and appoint a joint party committee to get to the truth.

Both political parties will have to come to grips with what to do in the post-2015 era when our neighbours are going to have air power capabilities, both airborne and surface based, designed specifically to be competitive with (if not overmatch) the F-22A Raptor and, by default, annihilate the Super Hornet and the JSF.


Stephen Smith's 11th-hour flight option | Business Spectator


Funny stuff!
 
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Oh please.

180 MKIs in the Indonesian Air Force? There goes all the credibility of this article.

I can tell you from a limited first hand knowledge that the F-35 is far from inferior to anything the Indos can field. The sensor, avionics etc package that the F-35 wields will ensure continued Australian (and allied) air superiority in the region.
 
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Oh please.

180 MKIs in the Indonesian Air Force? There goes all the credibility of this article.

I can tell you from a limited first hand knowledge that the F-35 is far from inferior to anything the Indos can field. The sensor, avionics etc package that the F-35 wields will ensure continued Australian (and allied) air superiority in the region.

What region? Oceania/Austrialaisa?

If so I tend to agree. And i don't think Indonesia or India have any "evil" plans for Australia.
 
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What region? Oceania/Austrialaisa?

If so I tend to agree. And i don't think Indonesia or India have any "evil" plans for Australia.

Considering that Australasia/Oceania consists of a few Pacific Island nations, New Zealand and Australia, certainly. I can also assure you that the RAAF are more than capable of meeting any threats that neighbouring nations outside of our traditional sphere of influence, might pose.
 
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Considering that Australasia/Oceania consists of a few Pacific Island nations, New Zealand and Australia, certainly. I can also assure you that the RAAF are more than capable of meeting any threats that neighbouring nations outside of our traditional sphere of influence, might pose.

Well sure, as long as these "neighboring nations outside of our traditional sphere of influence" CHOSE to stay away. "Home advantage" always plays its part but it would be illogical to imagine the RAAF could, alone, match the future might of,say, the Chinese and Indians plane to plane, gun to gun and missile to missile. Indonesia is a bit of an unknown but given their apparent animosity with Australia I'd say down the road (2030 and beyond) they could pose a serious threat to Australia.


As such the best course of action is Dipomacy.







oh and relying on "big bro" the US!
 
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So according to him India is going to look to control N. Australian skies. That's like 5000 miles away right. Heights of Paranoia :cheesy:
 
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^ How or why either the IAF or the PLAAF would send their aircraft to a mostly barren country thousands of miles from their respective mainlands is beyond me.

Our country while large in size is vastly underpopulated, but we have always punched far above our weight. I am no fool to claim that we would be able to match far larger countries, as you put it, "plane to plane, gun to gun and missile to missile".

We are going to be inducting 100 new F-35s while keeping our classic and 'super' Hornets in the point defense role. We don't plan to invade any of our neighbours so these aircraft will be well supported by ground based radars and SAM systems.

Trust me, the RAAF will inflict attrition upon any adversary that they will simply lose the will or the ability to maintain their war fighting ability over the Australian mainland.

That being said, every Australian soldier is trained to fight like a guerilla, even those of us who are in non-combat roles (Aeronautical Engineer). We know when faced with a much larger enemy, the choices will be either to disperse into the vast outback and fight and harass the enemy in a guerilla fashion or to be quickly decimated by a superior force.
 
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Oh please.

180 MKIs in the Indonesian Air Force? There goes all the credibility of this article.

I can tell you from a limited first hand knowledge that the F-35 is far from inferior to anything the Indos can field. The sensor, avionics etc package that the F-35 wields will ensure continued Australian (and allied) air superiority in the region.

Nowhere in the article it is written Indonesia is going to purchase MKIs. It is clearly written Su 35 or PakFa/T-50 or combination of both. From where you drew that conclusion.
 
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Nowhere in the article it is written Indonesia is going to purchase MKIs. It is clearly written Su 35 or PakFa/T-50 or combination of both. From where you drew that conclusion.

I assumed so because of this:

Indonesia plans to buy an incredible 180 of the Russian/Indian Sukhoi fighters

The only Indo-Russian Sukhoi fighter currently active is the MKI, is it not?
 
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I assumed so because of this:



The only Indo-Russian Sukhoi fighter currently active is the MKI, is it not?

It is not mentioned that Indonesia is going to buy in the next few weeks. The course is for post 2020. T-50/PAKFA is a Indo-Russian fighter.
 
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It is not mentioned that Indonesia is going to buy in the next few weeks. The course is for post 2020. T-50/PAKFA is a Indo-Russian fighter.

My point still stands, 180 Sukhois? Not happening anytime in the near future.
 
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Indonesia will buy over 180 Pak Fa??its like way greater number that what we'll buy..Pak-Fa will be exported,but I doubt that it'll be sold in greater number than what India/Russia will buy actually.while Russia will buy somewhat near 250 aircrafts,and India somewhat around 150-200 jets,no way Indonesia will buy 180.and F-35 isn't a bad jet either.don't forget,USA itself will buy this jets in large numbers and as they set their trend,they wants only top of the line product,nothing else.no way USA will risk to degrade its airforce's quality by inducting substandard/inferior jets..
 
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Indonesia will buy over 180 Pak Fa??its like way greater number that what we'll buy..Pak-Fa will be exported,but I doubt that it'll be sold in greater number than what India/Russia will buy actually.while Russia will buy somewhat near 250 aircrafts,and India somewhat around 150-200 jets,no way Indonesia will buy 180.and F-35 isn't a bad jet either.don't forget,USA itself will buy this jets in large numbers and as they set their trend,they wants only top of the line product,nothing else.no way USA will risk to degrade its airforce's quality by inducting substandard/inferior jets..

The IAF will be getting 200-250 PAK-FA/FGFA for sure.
 
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