Will not order more , but OK with Export : IAF on Tejas Mk-1

[Nova2]

Who is this he-man you are all talking about? seems like the kind of guy i will get on with quite well.

Well he was guy who got something like 9-ve rating in 15 minutes ,the was bit pissimist,not that about how thing were been done in India be it in defence or manufacturing sector,he's statment many a times may not go too well Indian's aswell,but he's banned now i guess

 

[sancho]

so IAF rejected, hornets, MIG35 and Gripen but went ahead with Tejas, is that an attempt to give a "certificate of quality" to Tejas, or highlight "Incompetence of IAF"?

Just a sign that you don't understand that the L in LCA refers to light and that the M in M-MRCA refers to medium, or that LCA was never in competition with M-MRCA, since both are seperated classes of fighters, with different requirements and procured with different aims in mind.

 

[Thorough Pro]

this is a prime example of, "Sawal-e-Gundum, Jawab-e-Jo" How is your response relevant to what I posted in response to what that poster posted?

Just a sign that you don't understand that the L in LCA refers to light and that the M in M-MRCA refers to medium, or that LCA was never in competition with M-MRCA, since both are seperated classes of fighters, with different requirements and procured with different aims in mind.

 

[TimeTraveller]

What about radar of tejas....There was some news few days back that DRDO had made a prototype of the radar that can track 64 targets and the radar was to be built under 1 year......
@sancho @Nova2 @Abingdonboy and others.....

 

[mike2000]

Well he was guy who got something like 9-ve rating in 15 minutes ,the was bit pissimist,not that about how thing were been done in India be it in defence or manufacturing sector,he's statment many a times may not go too well Indian's aswell,but he's banned now i guess

Too bad, i dont have the chance to meet him.....where are you HE-MANNNNNN..

 

[TimeTraveller]

can anyone here make technical comparison between tejas and saab gripen?

Specifications (JAS 39C/D Gripen)
General characteristics

• Crew: 1 (2 for JAS 39D)
• Payload: 5,300 kg (11,700 lb)
• Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in); two-seater: 14.8 m (48 ft 5 in)
• Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
• Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)
• Wing area: 30.0 m² (323 ft²)
• Empty weight: 6,800 kg(12,600 lb)
• Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)
• Max. takeoff weight: 14,000 kg (31,000 lb)
• Powerplant: 1 × Volvo RM12 afterburning turbofan
  • Dry thrust: 54 kN (12,100 lbf)
  • Thrust with afterburner: 80.5 kN (18,100 lbf)
• Wheel track: 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in)

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 2 (2,204 km/h (1,190 kn; 1,370 mph)) at high altitude
• Combat radius: 800 km (497 mi, 432 nmi)
• Ferry range: 3,200 km (1,983 mi) with drop tanks
• Service ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft)
• Wing loading: 283 kg/m² (58 lb/ft²)
• Thrust/weight: 0.97
• Maximum g-load: +9 g

Armament

• Guns: 1× 27 mm Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon with 120 rounds (single-seat models only)
• Hardpoints: 8 (three on each wing and two under fuselage) and provisions to carry combinations of:
  • Rockets: 4× rocket pods, 13.5 cm rockets
  • Missiles:
    • 6× AIM-9 Sidewinder (Rb.74) or IRIS-T (Rb 98)
    • 4× AIM-120 AMRAAM (Rb.99) or MICA
    • 4× Meteor (under development)
    • 4× AGM-65 Maverick (Rb.75)
    • 2× KEPD.350
    • 2× Rbs.15F anti-ship missile
  • Bombs:
    • 4× GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
    • 2× Bk.90 cluster bomb
    • 8× Mark 82 bombs

Specifications (HAL Tejas Mk.1)

General characteristics

• Crew: 1
• Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
• Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
• Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
• Wing area: 38.4 m² (413 ft²)
• Empty weight: 6,500 kg (14,300 lb)
• Loaded weight: 9,500 kg(20,944 lb)
• Max. takeoff weight: 13,200 kg (29,100 lb)
• Powerplant: 1 × F404-GE-IN20 turbofan
  • Dry thrust: 53.9 kN (12,100 lbf)
  • Thrust with afterburner: 89.8 kN (20,200 lbf)
• Internal fuel capacity: 2,458 kg
• External fuel capacity: 2 x 1,200-litre drop tank at inboard, 1 x 725-litre drop tank under fuselage

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 1.6 (1,350 km/h) calibrated airspeed (CAS) at high altitude, reached in testing of IOC-I,theoretically capable of Mach 1.8
• Range: 850 km (459 nmi, 528 mi)
• Combat radius: 300 km (162 nmi, 186 mi)
• Ferry range: 3,000 km, Theoretically capable of 3,500 km (1,840 mi)
• Service ceiling: 15,000 m (49,200 ft, possibility of being raised to 60,000 ft)
• Wing loading: 247 kg/m² (50.7 lb/ft²)
• Thrust/weight: 1.07
• g-limits: +8/−3.5 g

Armament

• Guns: 1× mounted 23 mm twin-barrel GSh-23 cannon with 220 rounds of ammunition.
• Hardpoints: 8 total: 1× beneath the port-side intake trunk for targeting pods, 6× under-wing, and 1× under-fuselage with a capacity of 4,200 kg external fuel and ordnance
• Missiles:
• Air-to-air missiles:
  • Python 5
  • Derby
  • Astra
  • Vympel R-77
  • Vympel R-73
• Air-to-surface missiles:
  • Kh-59ME (TV guided standoff Missile)
  • Kh-59MK (Laser guided standoff Missile)
• Anti-ship missiles
  • Kh-35
  • Kh-31
• Bombs:
  Source:
  • KAB-1500L laser-guided bombs
  • GBU-16 Paveway II
  • FAB-250
  • ODAB-500PM fuel-air explosives
  • ZAB-250/350 incendiary bombs
  • BetAB-500Shp powered concrete-piercing bombs
  • FAB-500T dumb bombs
  • OFAB-250-270 dumb bombs
  • OFAB-100-120 dumb bombs
  • RBK-500 cluster bomb stake
• Others:[156]
  • S-8 rocket pods
  • Bofors 135 mm rocket
  • Drop tanks for ferry flight/extended range/loitering time.
  • LITENING targeting pod

Plus this, Saab is a very well known company and had a great experience in making aircrafts whereas HAL has less experience in designing and making an aircraft.....

For more info , go to this thread LCA Tejas MK 1 VS Gripen C/D ...........

 

[Hephaestus]

they are better off with cheap China fighters!!!

Did u mean inexpensive because the word cheap has a lot of connotations..

 

[Koovie]

well well well

chalo forget IAF focuson IN for Tejas give air aviation arm to IN & IA

WHAT !?

And whats "air aviation" ?

 

[sancho]

How is your response relevant to what I posted in response to what that poster posted?

By the fact that it was you who related the procurement of LCA with the rejection of MMRCAs and not GORKHALI. He just stated that the Mig and Co were rejected because of performance, but as I tried to explain the MMRCA requirements are different from those of LCAs, since both are seperate procurements, therefore the selection of LCA has nothing to do with the rejection of MMRCAs as you concluded.

 

[Koovie]

MOD needs to push Tejas MK1 down the throat of import loving IAF. 40 is too less need atleast 100 till MK2 comes online.

The IAF decides which aircraft and equipment fits their needs the best and not a bunch of bureaucrats.

If HAL does no deliver they should not be surprised that the IAF is not buying from them.

 

[sancho]

What about radar of tejas....There was some news few days back that DRDO had made a prototype of the radar that can track 64 targets and the radar was to be built under 1 year......

I guess you are refering to the EL 2052 AESA, but that if at all comes only in the MK2. The Mk1 is meant to have either the EL 2032 or a hybrid based on that radar and the DRDO MMR. That however will also be one of the limiting factors wrt export, since Israel will block the sales of their techs to any Gulf country and since they are pretty active now offering their IAI Kfir, even with the EL 2052 AESA in S. America and after Brauil will licence produce Gripen, the chances for LCA on these markets should be slim now.

 

[RKO]

Wrong Perception of your Identity.

and why is that????

Did u mean inexpensive because the word cheap has a lot of connotations..

yep!!! thats what I meant!!!

 

[TimeTraveller]

I guess you are refering to the EL 2052 AESA, but that if at all comes only in the MK2. The Mk1 is meant to have either the EL 2032 or a hybrid based on that radar and the DRDO MMR. That however will also be one of the limiting factors wrt export, since Israel will block the sales of their techs to any Gulf country and since they are pretty active now offering their IAI Kfir, even with the EL 2052 AESA in S. America and after Brauil will licence produce Gripen, the chances for LCA on these markets should be slim now.

Sir what about this one ( AESA Radar is still under development for Tejas MK-2 ).... Can we use EL 2052 on Tejas mk1...If not, then why....?

Tejas MK-2 Aesa Radar derived from Israeli EL/M-2052


According to Report in the latest issue of “VayuAerospace” Defence
Magazine , Aesa Radar for Tejas MK-2 is derivative of Israeli EL/M-2052
Active electronically scanned array fire control radar . Earlier its was
presumed that India and Israel are working on new Aesa radar based on
tried and tested variant of EL/M-2032.

Tejas MK-1 houses a Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) jointly developed by LRDE ,
HAL Hyderabad along with Israel Aerospace Industries. MMR is a Hybrid
Radar based on Indian and Israeli technology which is largely based on
Israeli EL/M-2032 pulse Doppler, multimode planar array fire-control radar.

EL/M-2032 are also used on Sea Harriers fleet of Indian navy and in 2010
first Lca Tejas (LSP-3) aircraft flew with new Hybrid EL/M-2032 radar .
once IAF had requested an AESA radar for Tejas MK-2 , it was presumed
that upgraded EL/M-2032 will be mated with Active electronically scanned
array fire control radar (AESA) Antenna developed by India’s LRDE lab .
But VayuAerospace has confirmed that an new Aesa radar will be based on
EL/M-2052 based on fully solid-state active phased array technology.
This new technology enables the radar to achieve a longer detection
range beyond 200km, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking
capability of up to 64 targets.

In air to ground mode the high resolution Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR)
is highly effective against static targets while the ground moving
target indicator (GMTI) on real Beam Map (RBM), Doppler beam Sharpening
(DBS) and SAR are valuable assets .

In Air to Sea Mode the Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar (ISAR) mode
assists target classifications . EL/M-2052 radar is also known for High
Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) immunity, ultra-low side lobe antennae
and High mission reliability .

EL/M-2052 radar for Tejas MK-2 was in contention way back in 2008, but
In 2011 Israeli defence ministry blocked possible sale or
co-development of new radar based on EL/M-2052 for Export market,
restrictions were also imposed on India. Restrictions were imposed
following pressure from the US administration .Saab had considered
offering the EL/M-2052 as part of its Gripen NG proposal for the Indian
air force’s medium multi-role combat aircraft requirement but USA vetoed
it to avoid undermining the sale of US-made systems on the international
stage. but it seems after MMRCA results it was again cleared by Israelis
who are yet to find customers for the radar .

*Features*

Pulse Doppler, all aspect, look-down shoot-down capabilities.
Solid-State, Active Phased Array technology.
Simultaneous multi-targets tracking and engaging.
Simultaneous multi-mode operation.
High ECM immunity.
Ultra-low side-lobe antenna.
Two axes monopulse guard channel.
Flexible interfaces and growth potential.
Modular hardware and software.
Spare memory and computing power.
High mission reliability (built with redundancy).

Source : Tejas MK-2 Aesa Radar derived from Israeli EL/M-2052 | idrw.org

 

[sancho]

Sir what about this one ( AESA Radar is still under development for Tejas MK-2 ).... Can we use EL 2052 on Tejas mk1...If not, then why....?

Yeah I thought so, that radar includes US techs, which is why exports require US approval and so far they rejected any possibility to us that radar on an Indian fighter (LCA or Gripen IN) or even to jointly develop a radar with the Israelis on that base. Unless that changes, the we won't get it, but AESA is only aimed on the MK2 version anyway.

 

[jugad]

Can't understand why people are gettin all worked up 40 is more than enough imo because MK2 is what IAF needs and MK1 is merely a stepping stone