Will Erdogan announce on July 20th the annexation of the occupied territories of Cyprus?

[hyperman]

Cyprus and Greece must now proceed to the Union, the next day, with corresponding referendums.

Isn't it the Enosis B*lls*hit that started this whole event. when Greek Nationalist zealots decided to throw away the old Cypriot constitution(which enshrined Turkish cypriots as coequal stakeholders) undemocratically and try to monopolize greek power over the island, after the court rejected they attempt to sideline Turkish Cypriots, which began the process of massacres to subjugate and eventually get rid of Turks on the Island, like what was done in Crete? The Massacres are what forced the Turkish intervention to start with.

It wasn't the Turkish Cypriots that rejected the Annan Plan, it was the Greek Cypriots(and the EU still allowed them in despite their rejection). At this point the only viable solution is a two state solution on Cyprus. Its fairly obvious from the Turkish Cypriot perspective, that any sort of solution other than absolute sovereignty, will tempt the Greeks to again try to monopolize power over time, and ultimately seek the erasure of Turkish Cypriots on the Island. They are already attempting to erase Turks in western thrace, despite treaty obligations(same as with the Cypriot case of violations of treaty obligations).

 

[Akritas]

Isn't it the Enosis B*lls*hit that started this whole event. when Greek Nationalist zealots decided to throw away the old Cypriot constitution(which enshrined Turkish cypriots as coequal stakeholders) undemocratically and try to monopolize greek power over the island, after the court rejected they attempt to sideline Turkish Cypriots, which began the process of massacres to subjugate and eventually get rid of Turks on the Island, like what was done in Crete? The Massacres are what forced the Turkish intervention to start with.

There are three key points regarding Cyprus.


Key point 1
Britain has a major stake in it. From the 1910s to 1950s, Greek Cypriots became increasingly dissatisfied with British rule and supportive of Enosis, the concept of political unification between Cyprus and Greece.
Greek and Turkish Cypriots tended to live in separate villages or neighbourhoods. But most of their history together on the island was peaceful.
British colonial rule and competing imperial interests combined to push them towards war.
Britain also encouraged ethnic divisions—it deliberately recruited Turkish Cypriots as police to crush the indipedence revolt. With support from Turkey, Turkish Cypriot political leaders set up a rival militia to fight EOKA.

Key point 2
Menderes is one that ignited the Cyprus conflict in 1956, from the Turkish side, when Nithat Erim submitted a report to him and since that day the strategy never wavered.
The Erim report clearly states that the only solution for Cyprus consists of partition under Turkish control and mentions population exchange and settlement by mainland Turks.
In 1957 Dr. Kutsiuk (the leader of Turkish Cypriots), proposed to Menderes the division of the island. That proposal is the exact Turkish line of today or 1974 invasion( with the exception of the enclosed Famagusta).
So, the Turks wanted the split of the Cyprus since 1957.
Turkey set up a rival militia to fight EOKA, eg TMT.

Key point 3
Is that you mentioned.

You do realize that apart from a few provinces, most Kurds in Turkey are totally and irreversibly assimilated into the Turkish ethnicity? I have "Kurdish" relatives who married in to our family and they're as Kurdish as you're Congolese.

They are indistinguishable from any random Turkish person. This story about Turkey turning into a Kurdish-majority country is horse reddish. If anything, we got the first generation of Kurdish youths that speaks better Turkish than Kurdish.

Also, check the fertility rate. They're down to 2 - 3 children in the poorest provinces of Turkey while the grandparents generation had 12 children per female.

The society is not set in stone; things change.

When the Kurdish Party in Turkey, with all these blockades and terrorism by the Turkish state, gets 10% in the elections, it means that the population who feel Kurdish reaches 20%.

 

[Akritas]

With the coup they organized in Cyprus in July 1974, the Greek state wanted to give the Turks a second Crete process. However, this foolish attempt backfired, causing Turkish soldiers to land on the island with their guarantor rights, and the Greek junta had to collapse at the cost of their own mistakes.

The island de-facto split in two in 1974. Turkish Cypriots were subjected to embargo and isolation. On the other hand, it was the Turkish Cypriots always who were willing to re-establish a lasting peace.

So much so that the majority of Turkish Cypriots said yes even to the Annan plan (there were also arrangements regarding land division), which would damage Turkish interests radically, while the Greek Cypriot side, with the influence of Greece(We are grateful for Greek greed), pushed back the historical opportunity by saying No. If you are asked what did Greece do even more stupid than organizing a military coup in Cyprus in 1974; the answer is definitely to throw the Annan Plan away.

All of these processes were consumed by the Greek Cypriots and Greece. The Turkish side paid all the costs. From here on, it is clear what needs to be done.

*

To refresh your memory on the subject: First plebiscite was organized by the Orthodox Church of Cyprus, it was on Enosis (unification of the island with Greece) and held between 15-22 January 1950. Only Greek Cypriots participated in the plebiscite and 96% supported Enosis. Efforts of Greece to put ENOSIS ambitions on a political level started with this plebiscite process. There is no need to rewrite the long story in between here, the conditions turned into such a frenzy after decades that Greece threw even Makarious away and tried to create a quick fait accompli on the island with the massacrer generals.

So we did not destroy the Cyprus state. The Greek junta destroyed the Cyprus state and tried to establish military rule. After 20 years of massacres and conflicts, the Turkish military, who landed on the island, ended the decades-long masacres, clashes, assassinations and arsons in 2+3 days operations and until this day peace conditions continues. (just 1, an idiot who tried to climb the Turkish flagpole died)

There are two societies that represent the state that was destroyed by the Greek coup in 1974. The Greek side is actually an extension of the pirate state established by this coup, so it cannot claim rights over the entire island, or can't see Turks as a minority element that can be pushed around at will.

According to the Greek thesis: Greeks can hold a unilateral plebiscite, carry out ethnic cleansing against Turks, openly carry out ENOSIS(Contrary to UN principles) activities, carry out a military coup, but the best option for Turks is to give up their equality rights just like reducing to a minority status, if they do not accept it, massacre, embargo and isolation. The Annan Plan referendums are a very obvious example to show this psychology.

But such a world does not exist anymore. 1974 was one of the periods when the Turkish state experienced the most impossibilities and difficulties in many ways. We did not allow this even then, there is no way to go back anymore.

We have done our self-criticism, recognizing our mistakes.
Have you done it?
But of course not, it is proven daily and over time with your constant refusal to resolve the Cyprus issue.
Just the thought of the Turkish state annexing foreign territory, occupied territory, stealing properties, destroying Greek churches and monuments, proves that Turkey never wanted the reunification of the island, in any way.
After all, since 1957 this has been Turkish policy: the division of the island.

 

[Foinikas]

Always remember, the Annan Plan was refused by the Greek side while at the same time it had the support of the UN, EU, US, TR and GR.

Because the plan wasn't in their favor.

Reasons for rejection as explained by the Greek Cypriots​

As summarised by "The Case Against the Annan Plan", from Coufoudakis and Kyriakides and the Letter by the President of the Republic, Mr Tassos Papadopoulos, to the U.N. Secretary-General, Mr Kofi Annan dated 7 June 2004

• The Turkish Cypriot constituent state, would have been integrated to Turkey making United Cyprus Republic (UCR) answerable to Turkey.[65]
• Turkey was granted rights to interfere with the Treaty between Egypt and the Republic of Cyprus on the Delimitation of the Exclusive Economic Zone. Cyprus' rights to its Continental Shelf in the south would have also been answerable to Turkey.[65]
• Turkey was granted the right of stationing Turkish troops on the island of Cyprus perpetually, again making full independence impossible.[65]
• Cyprus is 77% Greek and 18% Turkish. 5% of the population are other ethnic group. (2001) The Annan plan mandates equal representation of Greeks and Turks in the proposed Senate and in the Supreme Court, giving 50-50 representation to the two communities and therefore disproportionate representation to the Turks.[66]
• The plan created a confederation even though it utilised the term "federation" because there was no hierarchy of laws, while central authority emanated from the so-called component states. The Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot (77% of population) and Turkish Cypriot judges (18% of population), plus three foreign judges; thus foreigners would cast deciding votes.[67]
• The Plan did not include a settlement regarding the repatriation of Turkish settlers living on Greek Cypriot owned land in Northern Cyprus, while after 19 years, the possibility of abolishing the derogation of 5% of Greeks and Turkish citizens who could settle in Cyprus, is obvious, and the danger of a permanent mass settling of Cyprus by Turkey is visible.
• Nearly all the Turkish settlers would be granted citizenship or residence rights leading to citizenship. The central government would have limited control towards future Turkish Immigration. Those settlers opting to return to Turkey would be compensated by Cyprus and Greek Cypriots. Even though Turkey systematically brought in the settlers to alter the demography of the island, it had no responsibility for their Repatriation.
• The Plan simply disregarded the plain language and clear meaning of the Geneva Convention of 1949, section III, article 49, which prohibits colonisation by an occupying power. Article 49 states in its last paragraph: "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
• The Plan did not deal in full with the issue of demilitarisation of the legally invalid 'TRNC', and Greek Cypriots felt they had no reason to believe Turkish promises concerning the withdrawal of troops.
• Cyprus would be excluded from the European Common Defense and Foreign Policy, while Turkish troops would remain in Cyprus even after the accession of Turkey to the EU with intervention rights, (a military invasion – occasionally used euphemistically), in the future Greek Cypriot component state.
• Many Greek Cypriots interpreted the Right of Return policy as seriously flawed, meaning only 20% of Greek Cypriot refugees would be able to return over a time frame of 25 years, whereas Turkish Cypriots would have had full right of return. The plan denied to all Cypriots rights enjoyed by all other EU citizens (right of free movement and residence, the right to apply to work in any position (including national civil services, the right to vote).[68]
• Turkish Cypriots would have gained all their requested demands in the 24 hours following the referendum, had the plan been accepted. Greek Cypriot demands, however, were relegated to the long term – as well as being dependent on the good will of Turkey to fulfil its obligations.
• The return of the Turkish occupied land will take place in the period between three and a half months and three and a half years from the moment the solution is signed with no guarantees whatsoever that this shall be implemented. The Cypriot-Greek proposal of placing these areas under the control of the United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus and not the Turkish army has been rejected.
• The Plan did not address the issue of the British Sovereign Base Areas (SBAs) on the island, although parts of the SBAs would be transferred to the governments of the two constituent states.
• The British were granted rights to unilaterally define the continental shelf and territorial waters along two base areas and to claim potential mineral rights. Under the 1959-1960 Zürich and London Agreements, Britain did not have such rights (see the 2nd annex to the Additional Protocol to the 1959 Treaty of Establishment).
• The plan absolved Turkey of all responsibility for its invasion of Cyprus and its murders, rapes, destruction of property and churches, looting and forcing approximately 200,000 Greek Cypriots from their homes and property. The Cyprus government filed applications to the European Commission on Human rights on 17 September 1974 and on 21 March 1975. The Commission issued its report on the charges made in the two applications on 10 July 1976. In it the Commission found Turkey guilty of violating the following articles of the European Convention on Human Rights:

1. Article 2 – by the killing of innocent civilians committed on a substantial scale;
2. Article 3 – by the rape of women of all ages from 12 to 71;
3. Article 3 – by inhuman treatment of prisoners and persons detained;
4. Article 5 – by deprivation of liberty with regard to detainees and missing persons – a continuing violation;
5. Article 8 – by displacement of persons creating more than 180,000 Greek Cypriot refugees, and be refusing to allow the refugees to return to their homes.

• The plan failed to provide payment by Turkey:

1. for the lives of innocent civilians killed by the Turkish army;
2. for the victims of rape by the Turkish army;
3. for the vast destruction of property and churches by the Turkish army; and
4. for the substantial looting by the Turkish army.

• The Plan subverted the property rights of the Greek Cypriots and other legal owners of property in the occupied area:
  • by prohibiting recourse to European courts on property issues;
  • by withdrawing all pending cases at the European Court of Human Rights and transferring them to local courts;
  • by allowing Turkish Cypriots and illegal mainland Turk settlers/colonists to keep Greek Cypriot homes and property they were illegally given following Turkey's invasion of Cyprus and not having to reimburse the rightful owners of the property for 30 years of illegal use;
  • by a highly complicated, ambiguous and uncertain regime for resolving property issues and which is based on the principle that real property owners can ultimately be forced to give up their property rights which would violate the European Convention on Human Rights and international law. The Greek Cypriot property owners would have to be reimbursed by the federal treasury which would be funded overwhelmingly by the Greek Cypriots, meaning that Greek Cypriots would be reimbursing themselves.
• The Plan would have the effect of protecting those British citizens who illegally bought Greek Cypriot property from settlers or persons who are not owners; in the occupied north of Cyprus. They would, in effect, not be held responsible for their illegal action.
• The cost of economic reunification would be borne by the Greek Cypriots. The reunification cost has been estimated close to $20b[68]
• Following Annan 5 plan the Greek Cypriots would not have been allowed to make up more than 6% of the population in any single village in the Turkish controlled areas in the north thus they would have been prevented from setting up their own schools for their children and would not have even been able to give birth once this quota was reached.
• The agreement places time restrictions in the right of free, permanent installation of Greek Cypriots back to their homes and properties in them to be Turkish Cypriot state, which constitutes a deviation from the European Union practices. Those Greek Cypriot refugees that would return to their homes in regions under Turkish Cypriot administration would have no local civil rights, because the political representatives of Turkish Cypriot state would be elected only from Turkish Cypriots.[69]
• The functional weaknesses of the Plan endanger, inter alia, the smooth activity and participation of Cyprus, with one voice, in the European Union. While the Greek Cypriots have with many sacrifices achieved Cyprus accession to the European Union, the Greek Cypriots could very easily be led to the neutralization of the accession until the adoption of all necessary federal and regional legal measures or the loss of the benefits of the accession or the facing of obstacles in Cyprus participation in the Economic and Monetary Union and other European institutions.
• The economy of Cyprus would have been separate with the plan. There will be no common Monetary policy, fiscal policy and no investments by Greek Cypriot businesses shall be allowed in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state.
• Many Greek-Cypriots felt that the demand that the Cyprus issue be resolved before Cyprus' entry to the EU was so that the reunification would not have to contain elements of European law which were incompatible with certain provisions in the Annan Plan. This was further backed up by many who demanded the EU accept all derogations even if they violate European Court Decisions, European law and UN Security Council Resolutions. Both Romano Prodi and Günter Verheugen repeatedly indicated that any such derogations should only be for a short period of time and should not violate any European regulations.[70]

 

[Foinikas]

and until this day peace conditions continues. (just 1, an idiot who tried to climb the Turkish flagpole died)

So tell me,since you keep asking for the extradition of Kurdish terrorists from Sweden...when will you extradite the murderers of Solomos Solomou and Tasos Isaak?

Cold-blood executions live on camera and yet,you have the audacity of demanding extradition of asylum seekers in Greece and Kurds in Sweden.

@jamahir @PakFactor @Hydration @Ghostkiller @QWECXZ @drmeson @retaxis @IblinI @A.P. Richelieu

 

[jamahir]

So tell me,since you keep asking for the extradition of Kurdish terrorists from Sweden...when will you extradite the murderers of Solomos Solomou and Tasos Isaak?

Cold-blood executions live on camera and yet,you have the audacity of demanding extradition of asylum seekers in Greece and Kurds in Sweden.

@jamahir @PakFactor @Hydration @Ghostkiller @QWECXZ @drmeson @retaxis @IblinI @A.P. Richelieu

Sorry I won't watch these particular vids because they are age-restricted and India is going through atrocious censorship and jailings but I googled and found this photo of Solomos in his last moments :

So he was killed in front of UN "peacekeepers". I also googled for Tassos and again saw he was killed in front of UN "peacekeepers" this time by the Grey Wolves.

As Gaddafi said in 2009 in the UN General Assembly the UNO has been a failure. And the two people were killed over what ? Land dispute and nationalism. Both unnecessary and artificial. Sad.

And you are right to question dBSPL. He is a person of hypocrisy, in this issue you raised and others, like he said to me vehemently months ago that he opposes NATO and he tagged in several mods and TTAs but all he has been doing since is supporting NATO.

 

[mulj]

He should keep that card for while, when russia gets in deal with west for donbas and crimea then he should announce that formality.

 

[Foinikas]

So he was killed in front of UN "peacekeepers". I also googled for Tassos and again saw he was killed in front of UN "peacekeepers" this time by the Grey Wolves.

Exactly. His cousin was beaten to death by Grey Wolves and Turkish policemen

A few days later,Solomos Solomou climbed on a the pole to take the Turkish flag down and they shot him dead. Again,live on camera. They could have used rubber bullets,tear gas or other riot control equipment. But no,they shot him just like that.

But they nag to Sweden about Kurds.

How can Cyprus be reunited?

This was Cyprus before the war

Erdogan might try to annex it officially,but let's see how which countries will support him on that...

 

[Maula Jatt]

Phull support to Greece saar!

 

[jamahir]

Exactly. His cousin was beaten to death by Grey Wolves and Turkish policemen

View attachment 860008

Lynching a person is just so evil. Has happened in India and Pakistan not so irregularly.

A few days later,Solomos Solomou climbed on a the pole to take the Turkish flag down and they shot him dead. Again,live on camera. They could have used rubber bullets,tear gas or other riot control equipment. But no,they shot him just like that.

But they nag to Sweden about Kurds.

Indeed.

View attachment 860010

This senseless case of communal segregation, of "minority" and "majority" areas reminds me of this post of mine about Democracy.

Erdogan might try to annex it officially,but let's see how which countries will support him on that...

Greek government and Turkish government are both part of NATO and NATO heads in Western Europe and North American wouldn't want to upset Erdogan so as you said, let's see how this plays out.

 

[hyperman]

From the Turkish perspective, the Cyprus situation is resolved. Its only the Greeks who feel its "unresolved", b/c they want to control Turkish Cypriots and impose their rule over them and subjugate and if possible and opportune, wipe them out(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akritas_plan). The Island is separated, both sides are living peacefully. Turkish Cypriots will never return to the days of bloody Christmas(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1963)), people see what happened in Crete to Cretan Turks and they see whats happening in Western Thrace today.

Turkish Cypriots would rather die than return to the days of Bloody September or having Makarios III and people like him rule over them. Its only the Greek Nationalist zealots who want a war to establish control over Turkish Cypriots, and they want other Countries(France, EU, lobbying via the Greek Lobby in the US etc etc) to come and fight for them on their behalf in their to establish their rule over Turkish Cypriots. Greeks should come to terms with the fact that Turkish Cypriots don't want to live under them, they see whats happening in Western Thrace, so if the Greeks succeed in establishing control over them, sooner or later, there will be an erosion or rights(despite any treaties signed, the Greeks will break the treaties and the EU might make a comment officially but look the other way and tacitly support the subjugation as usual). Its a huge comedy when you see Greek Nationalists with a straight face say that such things are not going to happen, and then at the same time justify things that happened in Crete or what is happening in Western Thrace.

 

[Kedikesenfare2]

There are three key points regarding Cyprus.


Key point 1
Britain has a major stake in it. From the 1910s to 1950s, Greek Cypriots became increasingly dissatisfied with British rule and supportive of Enosis, the concept of political unification between Cyprus and Greece.
Greek and Turkish Cypriots tended to live in separate villages or neighbourhoods. But most of their history together on the island was peaceful.
British colonial rule and competing imperial interests combined to push them towards war.
Britain also encouraged ethnic divisions—it deliberately recruited Turkish Cypriots as police to crush the indipedence revolt. With support from Turkey, Turkish Cypriot political leaders set up a rival militia to fight EOKA.

Key point 2
Menderes is one that ignited the Cyprus conflict in 1956, from the Turkish side, when Nithat Erim submitted a report to him and since that day the strategy never wavered.
The Erim report clearly states that the only solution for Cyprus consists of partition under Turkish control and mentions population exchange and settlement by mainland Turks.
In 1957 Dr. Kutsiuk (the leader of Turkish Cypriots), proposed to Menderes the division of the island. That proposal is the exact Turkish line of today or 1974 invasion( with the exception of the enclosed Famagusta).
So, the Turks wanted the split of the Cyprus since 1957.
Turkey set up a rival militia to fight EOKA, eg TMT.

Key point 3
Is that you mentioned.



When the Kurdish Party in Turkey, with all these blockades and terrorism by the Turkish state, gets 10% in the elections, it means that the population who feel Kurdish reaches 20%.

You don't know anything about the internal Turkish dynamics and still you talk as if you're a politicial correspondent working from Ankara for the last 30 years.

HDP got the votes from Turkish leftists because the party had represented itself as a generally left alternative by radically dialing down its Kurdish profile. This was the secret to its success. They got votes from Turkish provinces for the first time in their history.

 

[Foinikas]

From the Turkish perspective, the Cyprus situation is resolved. Its only the Greeks who feel its "unresolved", b/c they want to control Turkish Cypriots and impose their rule over them and subjugate and if possible and opportune, wipe them out(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akritas_plan). The Island is separated, both sides are living peacefully. Turkish Cypriots will never return to the days of bloody Christmas(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1963)), people see what happened in Crete to Cretan Turks and they see whats happening in Western Thrace today.

Turkish Cypriots would rather die than return to the days of Bloody September or having Makarios III and people like him rule over them. Its only the Greek Nationalist zealots who want a war to establish control over Turkish Cypriots, and they want other Countries(France, EU, lobbying via the Greek Lobby in the US etc etc) to come and fight for them on their behalf in their to establish their rule over Turkish Cypriots. Greeks should come to terms with the fact that Turkish Cypriots don't want to live under them, they see whats happening in Western Thrace, so if the Greeks succeed in establishing control over them, sooner or later, there will be an erosion or rights(despite any treaties signed, the Greeks will break the treaties and the EU might make a comment officially but look the other way and tacitly support the subjugation as usual). Its a huge comedy when you see Greek Nationalists with a straight face say that such things are not going to happen, and then at the same time justify things that happened in Crete or what is happening in Western Thrace.

Greek Cypriots don't want to "subjugate" the Turkish Cypriots. They just lament the loss of their houses,lands and they don't want to live with the Turks,just like the Turks don't want to live with the Greeks.

And tell me,hyperman,what exactly is happening in Western Thrace? You keep talking about "Greek nationalists" and imagine some kind of Greek takeover of Cyprus.

 

[Mujahid Memon]

I hope they do

 

[dBSPL]

Isn't it the Enosis B*lls*hit that started this whole event. when Greek Nationalist zealots decided to throw away the old Cypriot constitution(which enshrined Turkish cypriots as coequal stakeholders) undemocratically and try to monopolize greek power over the island, after the court rejected they attempt to sideline Turkish Cypriots, which began the process of massacres to subjugate and eventually get rid of Turks on the Island, like what was done in Crete? The Massacres are what forced the Turkish intervention to start with.

It wasn't the Turkish Cypriots that rejected the Annan Plan, it was the Greek Cypriots(and the EU still allowed them in despite their rejection). At this point the only viable solution is a two state solution on Cyprus. Its fairly obvious from the Turkish Cypriot perspective, that any sort of solution other than absolute sovereignty, will tempt the Greeks to again try to monopolize power over time, and ultimately seek the erasure of Turkish Cypriots on the Island. They are already attempting to erase Turks in western thrace, despite treaty obligations(same as with the Cypriot case of violations of treaty obligations).

Thank you for your unbiased perspective.

For anyone who interprets the processes by comparing them with historical documents and information, not social media or the populist statements of funded senators, the situation is crystal clear.