Why liberalism is actually the biggest threat which Pakistan faces apart from insurgencies

[CLUMSY]

Yes thats a union Jack I've heard this joke a thousand times you can be the first to the two thousand count. If you look at rape statistics u will get your answer

Apparently the Liberal clowns who have had the power circle for 5 decades plus are washed in the Ganga the same liberal who screams no wheat when he scams his local kissan these lot run your education system from top to down. But ill let that slide please do explain how conservatism restricts expansion of economy.

Yeah, the problem when it comes to statistics is when it comes to Pakistan many women are afraid to come out about such a traumatic event in fear of "losing their honor" in front of their family or being blamed for it instead. Many men who suffered sexual abuse in their early age are afraid to come out about it too. This is a country where a police constable blamed a woman who got raped in front of her kids to be the one responsible. Dont fool yourself.

It is funny to me that you think the western states don't brainwash people when they use suppression tactics against every other ideology that's not pro-liberalism

The ideology you follow is largely influenced by what the elites propogate using a bunch of buzzwords and leveraging moral highgrounds. They suppress other ideologies in covert manners.

You can't really be anti-liberalism in the west because they directly attack your character, attack your conscious, reputation, cancel you in many ways - block you out of society - they indirectly force you to submit if you are to be accepted in society.

"Misogynist", "sexist", "homophobic", "radical extremism", "facist" - all words loosely thrown around to tackle any ideology that goes against theirs

For example they literally cancelled Andrew Tate for using the same free speech by propogating anti-liberalism and deplatformed him.

This is no different to what China does and they don't even try to hide it

UK: Schools developing lessons to re-educate teens brainwashed by Andrew Tate's misogynistic content

Teachers at a school in south London decided to give a presentation to a group of 14-year-olds after learning that some of the students were expressing opinions they had learned from Tate

www.google.com

UK Schools Re-Educating Teens Brainwashed by Andrew Tate Sparks Outrage: “Schools Are Brainwashing for the Second Time?”

Schools in the United Kingdom deciding to educate young teens on controversial social media star Andrew Tate sparks outrage from fans.

www.google.com

Some of the more extreme liberal ideologies make sexual assault much easier to take place so it can be linked to liberalism

Secondly the way you allow Islam to be propagated, if it goes unchecked and anyone can attempt to have a monopoly on it - then yes it can also produce rapists

If the rapists are a direct product of religious madrassas then that has to be addressed and many in Pakistan are run by uneducated locals who don't have much of a clue themselves and take advantage of children.

I would attribute the above to not properly regulating institutions with rules and requirements but not directly to Islam.

I do believe you have a right to voice your opinion against LGBT and have a radically different stance as long as you are not threatening anyone. I do agree that it is wrong and childish to jail or "rehabilitate" people due to their beliefs. Also i dont really have much freedom to voice my opinion in Pakistan either lol.
I dont see how liberalism can lead to rape as by definition it aims to maximize human autonomy as long as no harm is done to others

 

[Olympus81]

I believe Pakistan in its current form is fine.

A moderate Islam outlook with a constitution that does not go in conflict of Quran and its teachings.

Certainly laws pertaining to blasphemy needs amendment. Pakistan’s current predicament is little do with the leanings of constitution and more to do with twisting it to suit a certain section of society.

 

[ThunderCat]

I consider myself a classical liberal. It's neo-liberalism that's the problem.

Neo-liberals give popularity Islamists as well. Force everyone to learn English. Ban capital punishment. Give a free pass to criminals just because Westerners do it. Don't regulate alcohol.

Live and worship the phenomenon of climate change because the white Westerners do it.

Eat, live and sleep white Western habits.

Promote India & Bangladesh as examples of "development."

Meantime mullahs exploit this neo-liberal fear and promise Islamitization as a "salvation."

And we classical liberals get described by these salafist types as being neo-liberal types.

 

[TheSolution]

I do believe you have a right to voice your opinion against LGBT and have a radically different stance as long as you are not threatening anyone. I do agree that it is wrong and childish to jail or "rehabilitate" people due to their beliefs. Also i dont really have much freedom to voice my opinion in Pakistan either lol.
I dont see how liberalism can lead to rape as by definition it aims to maximize human autonomy as long as no harm is done to others

That's my point, freedom only exists within the scope of the said society's ideology.

Perhaps only libertarian societies or smth are truly free

 

[El Sidd]

Enough of name calling guys.

Is that a cultural or a religious practice?

 

[Great Janjua]

Lets re-frame this argument. Both cultures you have mentioned here are foreign to us. Islam did not originate in Pakistan, nor did Western Culture.
So the question is, which culture should we emulate

This right here is the problem he thinks islam is the culture Islam is a way of life culture are from your regions from your Ethnic backgrounds when Islam came to the subcontinent it developed immensely the local languages and way of life it basically improved upon the already present format.

This is what happens when u get into Pak education system it turns u into a mole.

these same "liberals" beat up a girl in scarsdale, lahore, for refusing to drink alcohol, and for comlpaining about it. the video went viral on the internet. these people are not liberals, they are anti-religion, adn are extremists of the worst sort. the so called liberals here on this forum have repeatedly expressed their desire to destroy masajid madaris adn kill anyone with a beard. oscar (nowadays SQ8) wanted to destroy the ship on which ulema were offering prayers. this is their real face. they are full of hate.

This is sad liberals really want some rural Panjabi to shoot their brains out. Next war in Pakistan will be against these libbus hate is building up.

no, my response is to you, not to blowing up mosques. classic idiot liberal. engaging in whataboutism. i pointed out examples of liberal lunacy, and the best you could respond with was the atrocities committed by another group of extremists. jackass. first learn to understand what the other person is saying.


no... you only care about forcing people to leave their religion and adopting a lifestyle that is to your liking. you yourself have a corrupt agenda.


that is the issue, you dont believe in Islam. you just believe in liberalism, a muslim liberal is an oxymoron. you cant be both at the same time. either you believe in Islam, and want the guidelines and rules and punishments laid out in Quran and Sunnah to be implemented, or you are a liberal and dont believe in those things. but do believe in killing others if they go against liberalism.

Liberals have a fall back mechanism its worldwide just the other day some American libbu was saying "Ohhh all the pedos are Christians see we Libbus are way more cultured" its literally a cope mechanism.

 

[Great Janjua]

I consider myself a classical liberal. It's neo-liberalism that's the problem.

Neo-liberals give popularity Islamists as well. Force everyone to learn English. Ban capital punishment. Give a free pass to criminals just because Westerners do it. Don't regulate alcohol.

Live and worship the phenomenon of climate change because the white Westerners do it.

Eat, live and sleep white Western habits.

Promote India & Bangladesh as examples of "development."

Meantime mullahs exploit this neo-liberal fear and promise Islamitization as a "salvation."

And we classical liberals get described by these salafist types as being neo-liberal types.

There is no thing as Islamist although i do respect your opinion but this whole degrading of Molvis and the coin word Islamist is a liberal invention they throw it around like its child play whenever the see a Muslim living by the book they call him a Islamist its a double sham meant downplay their point of views.

 

[ThunderCat]

There is no thing as Islamist although i do respect your opinion but this whole degrading of Molvis and the coin word Islamist is a liberal invention they throw it around like its child play whenever the see a Muslim living by the book they call him a Islamist its a double sham meant downplay their point of views.

Sorry but neo-liberals being bad doesn't make molvis are right. They are also hypocrites and toxic for society.

 

[Great Janjua]

Yeah, the problem when it comes to statistics is when it comes to Pakistan many women are afraid to come out about such a traumatic event in fear of "losing their honor"

Its a universal thing not limited to Pakistan.

Sorry but neo-liberals being bad doesn't make molvis are right. They are also hypocrites and toxic for society.

Thats your opinion Molvis who abide by the Sunnah and Quran shouldn't be a problem. Liberalism cannot correlate with Religion any way it will always be a tussle.

 

[ThunderCat]

Thats your opinion Molvis who abide by the Sunnah and Quran shouldn't be a problem. Liberalism cannot correlate with Religion any way it will always be a tussle.

Very few. The majority of them are monsters as far as I can see. Liberalism has it's own religious subcultures, even in Pakistan.

Some people think of Greta Thunberg as a role model because of liberalism rather than somebody educated/knowing such as Daniel Quinn.

 

[Great Janjua]

Some people think of Greta Thunberg as a role model because of liberalism rather than somebody educated/knowing such as Daniel Quinn.

I think everyone would be fine as long as they dont start imposing stuff and insult the majority.

 

[AZMwi]

Why liberalism is actually the biggest threat Pakistan faces apart from insurgencies...

(liberals please read and give your opinions down below!)

Many may think that I am an Islamist of sorts, and assume I am writing this thread for fearmongering purposes, but hear me out

To understand why the above statement is true, we must look at the founding ideology of Pakistan, and the basis of its formation:

Two-nation theory is the founding ideology which paved the way for the establishment of Pakistan. In basic terms, it proposed that subcontinent India cannot be considered a single nation but rather two nations – the Muslims and the Hindus. This is due to the polar opposite values, way of life, and ideal societies which both religious groups demanded.

Where Muslims wanted to create a society allowing to prioritise their Islamic values such as modesty, celibacy, condemnation of queer ideology, promotion of the nuclear family structure, etc and were strictly against the idol worshipping of the Hindus. On the other hand, the Hindus wanted to create a polar opposite society which was largely individualistic and open - where they societally normalise premarital companionship, sexual liberation, queer ideology, propagate extreme narratives of feminism as seen today.

India - A copy of western culture with Hindu aesthetic and Indian local cultural touch.

Pakistan - Islamic influenced society with local cultural touch.

The first esssentially encompassing the values of modern day liberalism and standing against everything which the Muslims wanted to be discouraged from society as it goes against their Islamic principles.

This brings me back to my original point – if liberalism continues to spread in mass throughout society till the majority see such concepts of queer ideology, sexual liberation, radical feminism, individuality, anti-celibacy, anti-modesty, anti-nuclear family structure, as acceptable and something that should be normalised, then it negates the very foundation of Pakistan and the two-nation theory. It blurs the societal line which divided Pakistan and India, it removes the purpose of divisions when both societies seek to largely be shaped in the same way.

Some may use ethnicity as an argument to say only a minority of Indian Panjabis have a common ethnicity with Pakistan, hence that is valid enough - but you must remember India itself is incredibly diverse of many ethnicties and states, where many share cultural proximity regardless. Hence the line between India and Pakistan then becomes non-existent and serves no real purpose but rather hinders their overall national power.

There is no difference between Indian society and in the clip seen below:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616835716113395713

If this is normalised in society - what really is the conflict with India for, what really is the purpose of forming Pakistan when you want the same thing? What's the difference?

Which brings me to the conclusion that widespread liberalism defeats the purpose of Pakistan.

And it actually promotes ethno-nationalism due to state ideology and national identity/conscious becoming weak – whereas the Indians have a centralised national identity based on cultural proximity as well as historical events!

This is something Pakistan has barely touched upon only briefly using M.A Jinnah and Allama Iqbal but hasn’t fostered a strong powerful centralised independent identity.

Which begs the question - what kind of society or civilisation is Pakistan trying to be? Is it just trying to be another India, which defeats it's purpose, or an actual Islamically influenced civilisation as its founder set it out to be?

@Sayfullah @_NOBODY_ @Rusty2 @epebble @Menace2Society @villageidiot

Completely agree with you on that one. Liberalism preaches individual liberty. Look at the western civilization. Feminism, homosexuality, killing babies in womb, gender neutrality, hyper sexualised society and all the similar filth is a gift of liberalism isn't it.

 

[Great Janjua]

Completely agree with you on that one. Liberalism preaches individual liberty. Look at the western civilization. Feminism, homosexuality, killing babies in womb, gender neutrality, hyper sexualised society and all the similar filth is a gift of liberalism isn't it.

Completely agree with you on that one. Liberalism preaches individual liberty. Look at the western civilization. Feminism, homosexuality, killing babies in womb, gender neutrality, hyper sexualised society and all the similar filth is a gift of liberalism isn't it.

white people are going back to their traditionalist setting especially in Eastern Europe Liberalism literally is cancer for the world.

 

[AZMwi]

The entire ruling class of Pakistan is liberal. Liberal generals, liberal judges, liberal politicians, liberal bureaucrats, liberal journos etc. And look what they have done with this country

white people are going back to their traditionalist setting especially in Eastern Europe Liberalism literally is cancer for the world.

The new conservative Italian government openly denounced homosexuality in the parliament few weeks back. Even in other western countries including US, people are speaking up against the WOKE culture.

 

[TheSolution]

The entire ruling class of Pakistan is liberal. Liberal generals, liberal judges, liberal politicians, liberal bureaucrats, liberal journos etc. And look what they have done with this country


The new conservative Italian government openly denounced homosexuality in the parliament few weeks back. Even in other western countries including US, people are speaking up against the WOKE culture.

While I'm against liberalism I'm not going to say the state of this country is attributed to liberalism.

It's the lack of meritocracy and nepotism/corruption. Goofs running a country will create an absolute circus.

The thing with Islamic leaders is that they are all reactionary and quite frankly unintelligent - take a look at TLP threatening to bomb France, utter stupidity.

You have to be Islamic but also educated and intelligent. Unfortunately in Pakistan the Islamic are all radicals and extremely reactionary without any sense of pragmatism or geopolitics.

I wish Islamic teachings and curriculum about Pakistan's national identity & history were refined and produced more pragmatic nationalist thinkers who also valued Islamic morals and values in society.

An ideology of Pakistani Islamo-nationalism.