Why Donald Trump never could be elected in China.

[ChineseTiger1986]

No thanks, only Murica deserves him.

 

[gambit]

Seriously, you are reading too much into the fact that some Chinese move to US.

Why should I have to 'read' into that when I have personal testimonies from plenty of Chinese engineers that I work with who became US citizens ? You think ideology and politics played no part in their decisions ? If so, you are insulting their intelligence.

In vino veritas = In wine, truth.

Am a bourbon man myself. Knob Creek. A few shots and I hear plenty of political reasons why my Chinese friend raised his hand earlier during the day swearing allegiance to the US.

First of all, not too many Chinese are moving to the US if you take their population into consideration. Those who moved are not necessarily giving up their Chinese citizenship. Many of them actually treat US as their 2nd home.

This tells me you do not understand the citizenship process at all. Or very little.

If a Chinese immigrant becomes a US citizen, that does not mean the US government sent a letter to the Chinese government telling China that so-and-so is no longer a Chinese citizen. The man is making a public statement more to the US than to China. So if China still considers him a Chinese citizen, there is nothing the US government can do about it, and we will do nothing about it. We hold the person responsible to his oath.

The point that you completely missed, as usual with the PDF Chinese, is that the oath is a public statement of allegiance. Essentially, he is saying that he pledges to place the US over all.

https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenshi...ization-oath-allegiance-united-states-america

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;...

It is a public statement to US, not to China. We do not care about how China views him as long as his actions are true to the US.

If it is only a matter of living a good economic life in the US, why bother with the oath of citizenship ?

Secondly, people who choose to have their babies born in US mainly because it is lot of easier to get to good universities in the US then from China. Some of them are actually mistress of rich people, and a home in the US servers as a contingency plan.

Spin it anyway you want.

Thirdly, Chinese citizenship is THE most difficult one to get, so the "inferior" part is BS.

Your China wants to remain racially and ethnically homogeneous as possible. Just admit the racial part of it.

Curb your hatred to China, and you will be a better "Professional".

I do not hate China. But as a political person, I see nothing wrong with criticizing the Chinese government, the same way you PDF Chinese see nothing wrong with criticizing the US government. You PDF Chinese insists the two, country and government, are separate entities. But why are they the same when it comes to China ?

 

[Dungeness]

We are ?

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2013-09/17/content_16975662.htm

Study, stay, marry, and become US citizens.

While this might be true for Chinese came to the US in 80's and 90's, it not longer valid.

Graduate students from US universities could land a job paid them $40K-50K a year then, while their Chinese counters managed only $20-50 per month. So staying the US and having a family seemed to make a lot economic sense. Many did choose to stay.

20-30 years past, while US is still same old same old and graduate students may now make $50-60K, their Chinese counterpart can easily make $1000-1500 per month with high possibility to get 30% more 2nd year. So the same choice is not that attractive anymore. I personally know quite a few people in China who are making $100K or more, which not too many Americans can claim.

Chinese is in the fast lane, so you need to update your information more frequently.
　

Why should I have to 'read' into that when I have personal testimonies from plenty of Chinese engineers that I work with who became US citizens ? You think ideology and politics played no part in their decisions ? If so, you are insulting their intelligence.

Now I can tell, you are into your retirement age now.

 

[greenwood]

We knew the poor support Trump and the rich support Clinton. Society determines the election.

 

[Dungeness]

If a Chinese immigrant becomes a US citizen, that does not mean the US government sent a letter to the Chinese government telling China that so-and-so is no longer a Chinese citizen. The man is making a public statement more to the US than to China. So if China still considers him a Chinese citizen, there is nothing the US government can do about it, and we will do nothing about it. We hold the person responsible to his oath.

The point that you completely missed, as usual with the PDF Chinese, is that the oath is a public statement of allegiance. Essentially, he is saying that he pledges to place the US over all.

Silly, have you heard of "Green Card"?

When China is the subject, you suddenly can't find the basic part of "critical thinking", objective. And you will never admit you may make mistake, just like a few PDF Vietnamese-Americans here. You may be good in military hardware though.

 

[gambit]

While this might be true for Chinese came to the US in 80's and 90's, it not longer valid.

It will continue to be valid. In the future, there will be less Chinese immigration to the US for all the current reasons, but that will be because of an aging China.

 

[Dungeness]

It will continue to be valid. In the future, there will be less Chinese immigration to the US for all the current reasons, but that will be because of an aging China.

Don't worry, we can always open the door to Vietnamese and turn them into Chinese. I think they can blend into one of 55 ethnic minorities （Gin) in China just fine. There are a few hundred thousands Vietnamese living in China right now, legally or illegally, maybe a lot more.

 

[gambit]

Silly, have you heard of "Green Card"?

When China is the subject, you suddenly can't find the basic part of "critical thinking", objective. And you will never admit you may make mistake, just like a few PDF Vietnamese-Americans here. You may be good in military hardware though.

What 'mistake' have I made ? What about the green card ? I was talking about citizenship. I fully understand that many come to the US for economic reasons with no intentions of citizenship.

I GET THAT.

But what about those who made ideologies and politics primary considerations ? What about those who changed their minds after a few yrs in the US ? They tossed their green cards and chose citizenship. You cannot dismiss them, especially when your China have nothing comparable. You cannot argue away with the lame argument that Chinese citizenship is so difficult to get.

This is about culture and culture contains INESCAPABLE political aspects. You cannot live anywhere and not encounter politics, local and national. It is impossible, no matter how much you want to deny it. So for the Chinese who came here for economic reasons and decided to stay permanently for political ones, it is an indictment against China as much as the few Americans who renounce their US citizenship became indictments against the US. People on this forum cheered every time they found an American who either renounced or threatened the same against his/her US citizenship.

Don't worry, we can always open the door to Vietnamese and turn them into Chinese.

Hey...That is a good joke...Allow me to laugh...

 

[Dungeness]

But what about those who made ideologies and politics primary considerations ? What about those who changed their minds after a few yrs in the US ? They tossed their green cards and chose citizenship. You cannot dismiss them, especially when your China have nothing comparable. You cannot argue away with the lame argument that Chinese citizenship is so difficult to get.

This is about culture and culture contains INESCAPABLE political aspects. You cannot live anywhere and not encounter politics, local and national. It is impossible, no matter how much you want to deny it. So for the Chinese who came here for economic reasons and decided to stay permanently for political ones, it is an indictment against China as much as the few Americans who renounce their US citizenship became indictments against the US. People on this forum cheered every time they found an American who either renounced or threatened the same against his/her US citizenship.

Are you talking about those "Political Asylum Seekers"? Sure there are, especially those from Fujian in 90's who later open up Chinese Buffets everywhere in the US. Many lawyers in NY made fortune "helping" them to get qualified. I think it was last year, FBI raided NY China Town and arrested quite a few lawyers on document fault charges. There are even a few political parties by Chinese turn this "Asylum" into a profitable business.


Are there any genuine Political Asylum Seekers? Sure, but they are in minority. We are talking about a trend, not individual cases, as counter examples also exist (eg Edward Snowden).

As for your statement "This is about culture and culture contains INESCAPABLE political aspects. You cannot live anywhere and not encounter politics, local and national. It is impossible, no matter how much you want to deny it.", you obviously tried to play a trick of disguised displacement of concept, it is not a successful one. Shame on you.

Sure there will still be some Chinese to move to the US and become US citizens, I am sure there are many Americans would love to have a chance to move to China too if China opens up its immigration policy. The point is, just because you see some Chinese moving to the US for some personal reasons, doesn't mean "Chinese Citizenship is inferior" in anyway.

By the way, China has never been a country of immigration historically, so attacking it as a "racist country" based on this fact is uncalled for and it reflects your deep biases/hatred towards China and Chinese. Japan, South Korean, Vietnam maybe India are on the same boat in regards to immigration policy.

 

[gambit]

Are you talking about those "Political Asylum Seekers"?

No, I am not.

I am talking about the many Chinese who came to the US and after a few yrs decided to become Americans. They did not became US citizens on whims. Their decisions contains thought out calculations. They know what they would gain vs what they would lose. Going to the extreme of 'asylum seekers' is a feeble attempt to ignore what I have been saying all along.

Sure there will still be some Chinese to move to the US and become US citizens, I am sure there are many Americans would love to have a chance to move to China too if China opens up its immigration policy. The point is, just because you see some Chinese moving to the US for some personal reasons, doesn't mean "Chinese Citizenship is inferior" in anyway.

Of course inferiority is there. It is not implied. Even if it is perceived, that perception did not came from nothing.

If you chose a BMW over a Chevrolet, it is not because you believe/perceive that the two are parallel in quality, sophistication, and assorted tangible and intangible characters. You chose the BMW because the BMW is superior to the Chevrolet, which means the Chevrolet is inferior to the BMW.

If you chose to bank with the Swiss or the Bahamas over the Americans, it is because you believe/perceive the Swiss and the Bahamas bankers value your privacy in superior ways than the American bankers.

The world is filled with such binary choices and the political world is no different. You PDF Chinese admitted often enough that Chinese came to the US for SUPERIOR education choices. That means Chinese education choices are inferior.

You chose to work for Google over Amazon is because somehow you believe/perceive Google offers superior employment benefits than Amazon.

What you believe/perceive came from experience, not only of yourself but from your investigation of others' experiences.

When a Chinese chose US citizenship, he compared himself against other US citizens and what he found of China is lacking. You cannot deny that no matter how much you try.

By the way, China has never been a country of immigration historically, so attacking it as a "racist country" based on this fact is uncalled for and it reflects your deep biases/hatred towards China and Chinese. Japan, South Korean, Vietnam maybe India are on the same boat in regards to immigration policy.

And I have no problems calling those countries as tinged with racism regarding their desire to remain as homogeneous as possible. If the white folks in England and other European countries have colors in their citizenry, surely these Asian countries can do the same, no ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fatmata-abusenesie/a-foreigner-in-my-own-cou_b_6698956.html

I’m German, but I don’t look like most Germans. My parents come from Sierra Leone, which is why my skin is so dark. I was born here and I have a German passport. Germany is my home. But I still sometimes feel like a foreigner.

I’m German. I’m 23 years old. I went to school here. I study here. I fell in love for the first time here. And I get just as worked up as anybody when the German national soccer team plays a game. I love this country.

China has never been 'a country of immigration historically' ? It is funny that you PDF Chinese can say that with straight faces especially when you so often boasted how China absorbed other ethnicities, like the Mongols, and made them 'Chinese', or how often you said that the Koreans and the Japanese should admit their heritage and 'return' to China.

China is an immigrant country when it is convenient for you to characterize her so.

 

[Dungeness]

No, I am not.

I am talking about the many Chinese who came to the US and after a few yrs decided to become Americans. They did not became US citizens on whims. Their decisions contains thought out calculations. They know what they would gain vs what they would lose. Going to the extreme of 'asylum seekers' is a feeble attempt to ignore what I have been saying all along.


Of course inferiority is there. It is not implied. Even if it is perceived, that perception did not came from nothing.

If you chose a BMW over a Chevrolet, it is not because you believe/perceive that the two are parallel in quality, sophistication, and assorted tangible and intangible characters. You chose the BMW because the BMW is superior to the Chevrolet, which means the Chevrolet is inferior to the BMW.

If you chose to bank with the Swiss or the Bahamas over the Americans, it is because you believe/perceive the Swiss and the Bahamas bankers value your privacy in superior ways than the American bankers.

The world is filled with such binary choices and the political world is no different. You PDF Chinese admitted often enough that Chinese came to the US for SUPERIOR education choices. That means Chinese education choices are inferior.

You chose to work for Google over Amazon is because somehow you believe/perceive Google offers superior employment benefits than Amazon.

What you believe/perceive came from experience, not only of yourself but from your investigation of others' experiences.

When a Chinese chose US citizenship, he compared himself against other US citizens and what he found of China is lacking. You cannot deny that no matter how much you try.


And I have no problems calling those countries as tinged with racism regarding their desire to remain as homogeneous as possible. If the white folks in England and other European countries have colors in their citizenry, surely these Asian countries can do the same, no ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fatmata-abusenesie/a-foreigner-in-my-own-cou_b_6698956.html

China has never been 'a country of immigration historically' ? It is funny that you PDF Chinese can say that with straight faces especially when you so often boasted how China absorbed other ethnicities, like the Mongols, and made them 'Chinese', or how often you said that the Koreans and the Japanese should admit their heritage and 'return' to China.

China is an immigrant country when it is convenient for you to characterize her so.

You are repeating your points. For all those "Inferior or superior" BS, let two American girls living in China answer you. Enjoy！

 

[gambit]

You are repeating your points.

Because you avoided them.

For all those "Inferior or superior" BS, let two American girls living in China answer you. Enjoy！

So what ? When non-Asians can become Chinese citizens as easily as Chinese can become US citizens, we will dispense with the comparison. Until then...

 

[Dungeness]

Because you avoided them.


So what ? When non-Asians can become Chinese citizens as easily as Chinese can become US citizens, we will dispense with the comparison. Until then...

You have been repeating those trivial things and refuse to see the big picture. It is no point of discussion anymore. I'd rather talking to some sensible people.

No offence, of course. I will still read your posts regarding military hardware, as you do have good qualification on this regard.

Discussing with you regarding anything China, is just a waste of time, as you are an old guard stuck in the cold war mentality, who will never have an open mind again anyway. Just sit and watch how China transform into something you have never seen before, while receiving your social security check with 3% annul adjustment. Just joking. Maybe you are still working as a professional.

 

[gambit]

You have been repeating those trivial things and refuse to see the big picture. It is no point of discussion anymore. I'd rather talking to some sensible people.

Precisely because I have been around that I can see the big picture. Better than you think.

Discussing with you regarding anything China, is just a waste of time, as you are an old guard stuck in the cold war mentality, who will never have an open mind again anyway.

That is what Obama said to Romney, then Putin proved Obama wrong.

There will ALWAYS be a Cold War. Russia and your China will ensure that. We old guards will have the last laugh.

 

[Dungeness]

That is what Obama said to Romney, then Putin proved Obama wrong.

There will ALWAYS be a Cold War. Russia and your China will ensure that. We old guards will have the last laugh.

Damn, I was so right!

It doesn't have to be this way, buddy, maybe it is time let others try? Like old Chines saying, "if you are constipated, don't hold up the potty". Anyway, who knows, after the "last laugh" of cold war old guards, this world may be more about peace and prosperity than bombs and destruction.