Why Doesn't Pakistan Issue MMRCA Tender?

[pak-yes]

Well there has been very bad news lately.With the delay/Cancellation of JF-17 French Avionics.

But one thing that has surprised me very much is the worth of the Contract.I mean 6 Billion Euros that translates into 8 Billion Dollars.

I mean this is very much money.I never even dreamed of PAF having so much money.

So the Question is why Doesn't Pakistan Issue a MMRCA like tender.I mean just put 2-3 billion Dollars more and result would be like a MMRCA tender.I mean if India can buy 126 Euro fighters for 11 Billion Dollars so why can't we buy EF too.I mean 126 EF would surely better than 400 Thunders.What you guys think?

 

[Bingo!]

I dont think you can simply buy anything just because, the country has around 10-12 billion as reserve.

If all the money in reserves are spend on defense many contries can float 4-5 times the mrca deal

List of reserves
1 People's Republic of China
2,399,000 Dec 2009[1]
2 Japan 1,074,000 Nov 2009[2]
- Eurosystem
(EU member states which have adopted the euro, incl. ECB) 648,055 Oct 2009[3]
3 Russia 447,776
4 Republic of China (Taiwan) 352,729
5 India 279,708
6 South Korea 270,660
7 Hong Kong 256,300
8 Brazil 244,159
9 Singapore 189,618
10 Germany 189,484
11 Algeria 145,363
12 Thailand 143,000
13 Italy 129,331
14 Switzerland 126,083
15 France 126,422
16 Malaysia 96,800
17 Iran 96,560
18 Mexico 94.918
19 United Kingdom 83,935
20 Poland 83,678
21 United States 83,375
22 Libya 79,000
23 Denmark 76,896
24 Turkey 70,497

25 Indonesia 64,800
26 Israel 61,196
27 Canada 56,420
28 Argentina 48,277
29 Iraq 48,779
30 Sweden 48,582
31 Norway 48,559
32 Australia 46,542
33 Romania 45,506
34 United Arab Emirates 45,000
35 Philippines 45,000
36 Hungary 45,000
37 Nigeria 43,089
38 Czech Republic 41,458
39 South Africa 40,500
40 Netherlands 39,928
41 Lebanon 38,600
42 Peru 35,444
43 Egypt 34,212
44 Venezuela 31,925
45 Ukraine 29,625
46 Spain 27,235
47 Chile 26,020
48 Colombia 25,252
49 Belgium 23,963
50 Morocco 23,911
51 Vietnam 20,700
52 Macau 17,820
53 Kazakhstan 23,270
54 Kuwait 19,630
55 Angola 19,400
56 Serbia 17,357
57 Bulgaria 18,700
58 Ireland 16,229
59 Pakistan 13,200 (Jan 2010)

includes IMF loan Pakistan $11.3 billion

60 Austria 14,855



even a country like Algeria can have a 10 times bigger MRCA.....

 

[nomi007]

i think we must contract some western engineers.who have experience in jet Avionics & jet engine making.i think through this trick we will be able to move self reliance.plz any 1 give me the id of air chief of Pakistan.

 

[pak-yes]

I dont think you can simply buy anything just because, the country has around 10-12 billion as reserve.

If all the money in reserves are spend on defense many contries can float 4-5 times the mrca deal

List of reserves
1 People's Republic of China
2,399,000 Dec 2009[1]
2 Japan 1,074,000 Nov 2009[2]
- Eurosystem
(EU member states which have adopted the euro, incl. ECB) 648,055 Oct 2009[3]
3 Russia 447,776
4 Republic of China (Taiwan) 352,729
5 India 279,708
6 South Korea 270,660
7 Hong Kong 256,300
8 Brazil 244,159
9 Singapore 189,618
10 Germany 189,484
11 Algeria 145,363
12 Thailand 143,000
13 Italy 129,331
14 Switzerland 126,083
15 France 126,422
16 Malaysia 96,800
17 Iran 96,560
18 Mexico 94.918
19 United Kingdom 83,935
20 Poland 83,678
21 United States 83,375
22 Libya 79,000
23 Denmark 76,896
24 Turkey 70,497

25 Indonesia 64,800
26 Israel 61,196
27 Canada 56,420
28 Argentina 48,277
29 Iraq 48,779
30 Sweden 48,582
31 Norway 48,559
32 Australia 46,542
33 Romania 45,506
34 United Arab Emirates 45,000
35 Philippines 45,000
36 Hungary 45,000
37 Nigeria 43,089
38 Czech Republic 41,458
39 South Africa 40,500
40 Netherlands 39,928
41 Lebanon 38,600
42 Peru 35,444
43 Egypt 34,212
44 Venezuela 31,925
45 Ukraine 29,625
46 Spain 27,235
47 Chile 26,020
48 Colombia 25,252
49 Belgium 23,963
50 Morocco 23,911
51 Vietnam 20,700
52 Macau 17,820
53 Kazakhstan 23,270
54 Kuwait 19,630
55 Angola 19,400
56 Serbia 17,357
57 Bulgaria 18,700
58 Ireland 16,229
59 Pakistan 13,200 (Jan 2010)

includes IMF loan Pakistan $11.3 billion

60 Austria 14,855



even a country like Algeria can have a 10 times bigger MRCA.....

No,No,No

you have got it all wrong.I am saying that PAF already has 8 billion dollars so why not put 2-3 Billion dollars more and float a global tender for the best Aircraft in the world.

 

[Bingo!]

i think we must contract some western engineers.who have experience in jet Avionics & jet engine making.i think through this trick we will be able to move self reliance.plz any 1 give me the id of air chief of Pakistan.

pafdpr@paf.gov.pk


Postal Address


Directorate of Media Affairs
Sector E-9, PAF Complex,
Air HQs, Islamabad

 

[Awesome]

Pakistan's strategy will benefit us in the long run. We are losing our dependency upon western aircrafts and yet our AF is improving from its dismal 90s state.

JF-17s, J-10s, J-XX. Thats how our progression is going to be.

Meanwhile there will be development on Cruise Missiles, SAMs and then perhaps slow progress on Ballistic missiles.

 

[Bingo!]

No,No,No

you have got it all wrong.I am saying that PAF already has 8 billion dollars so why not put 2-3 Billion dollars more and float a global tender for the best Aircraft in the world.

Yes you can!!

But i prefer it spending in energy field and education and social upliftment and making the country strong and then buy the fancy toys.

Already PAF is a mighty force in the world. But the situation now demands its should take care of citizens as well, otherwise even smaller countries like srilanka, Bangladesh in the region will go further ahead of it.

Yes i agree a country's defense is of almost importance, but should n't come on peoples expense.
The spending should be of realistic situation not out of competition with bigger countries.

India started its buying spree after becoming economically sound.

All these hypes and news about military big buys are a recent phenomenon.

Indian people unlike Pakistan wont let the government buy big toys if the country was in a economic mess.

Development should be the "mantra" of the hour .. not 100 aircrafts and all.

This is just my opinion and please dont blast me saying an Indian have no business in pakistans affairs and we know what to do and mind ur business and all pleaaseeee....

 

[pak-yes]

i think we must contract some western engineers.who have experience in jet Avionics & jet engine making.i think through this trick we will be able to move self reliance.plz any 1 give me the id of air chief of Pakistan.

Well actually a very good suggestion i will soon make a separate thread for it to discuss.

 

[pakistantiger]

adding 2 more billions in already alotted 8 billion stil v not going for 126 fighters if india go for rafale pakistan go for euro fighter if india goes for euro fighter pakistan will go for rafale but at least 60 r 80 fighters not 126 or 110 pakistan only hav choise for euro fighter r rafale not super hornets no mor f16 n offcourse j11b also a choice

 

[navtrek]

Well there has been very bad news lately.With the delay/Cancellation of JF-17 French Avionics.

But one thing that has surprised me very much is the worth of the Contract.I mean 6 Billion Euros that translates into 8 Billion Dollars.

I mean this is very much money.I never even dreamed of PAF having so much money.

So the Question is why Doesn't Pakistan Issue a MMRCA like tender.I mean just put 2-3 billion Dollars more and result would be like a MMRCA tender.I mean if India can buy 126 Euro fighters for 11 Billion Dollars so why can't we buy EF too.I mean 126 EF would surely better than 400 Thunders.What you guys think?

Come on yar the point is do you really need it what u need is to give a boost to Pakistan's economy which is recovering from a war and more over we Indians only threaten to wage a war but till now have we ever done that ?

Well you know the answer so why such weapons ?

We Indians only threaten to wage a war or strike the terrorist camps in Pakistan coz we get frustrated with all those terrorist attacks killing innocent people who have nothing to do with Kashmir or the so called holy war(proxy war).

 

[jagjitnatt]

I highly doubt the stated deal was anywhere around $8 billion. Of $8 billion PAF could have bought Rafale. The avionics are much cheaper.

IAF upgraded its entire fleet of Mirage 2000. The upgrade was a major upgrade and still it costs us less than this.

PAF's JF-17 deal is actually 1.2 billion euros and just $1.6 billion.
The 6 billion euros number is total for all the deals including PAF, Army and Navy.
DAWN.COM | World | France says arms sale to Pakistan held up


So no MRCA.

No more speculation now please.

 

[Donatello]

Come on yar the point is do you really need it what u need is to give a boost to Pakistan's economy which is recovering from a war and more over we Indians only threaten to wage a war but till now have we ever done that ?

Well you know the answer so why such weapons ?

We Indians only threaten to wage a war or strike the terrorist camps in Pakistan coz we get frustrated with all those terrorist attacks killing innocent people who have nothing to do with Kashmir or the so called holy war(proxy war).

I am afraid that you are mistaken sir!

Remember Pakistan paid full amount for the 80 or so Peace Gate F-16s right when they were rolled off the lines. If We could pay 600 million (Un adjusted for inflation and exchange rates) then i am sure we can float a tender for any western aircraft. Floating a tender to show off that we are military power while people die from starvation, AIDs, Malnutrition, Corruption and lack of access to basic Health facilities is not a big deal. Pakistan invested 500 million USD for the JF-17 a plane which we can tailor to our needs.

The same plane can be equipped with a better sea search Radar for anti-shipping roles. The same plane can have a longer range radar for interception and act like Mini AWACs. Maybe high speed recon or something as well? Or dedicated ground attack, something that a MMRCA tender cannot full fill. Lack of French avionics means we can search else where. If India gets Rafale and rejects the Typhoon, then maybe the EuroFighter consortium can develop a AESA or something similar avionics package for JF-17s. If India goes for Typhoon then i don't see how the French cannot supply us the MDBA equipment, not to mention the Marlins SSK for the navy.

JF-17 avionics tender is for 100 aircraft valued at 1.6 billion dollars. Actually its not cheap at all. for the fact that 1.6 billion only equips the JF-17s and not mention the stockpiling of weapons/missiles which are in this case consumables. 50 Aircraft with Chinese avionics which by themselves are so much better that our F-16 pilots love it. ( You can search the forum, Sir Murad said it himself)
That still leaves 100 more aircraft to be filled with avionics. So depending on the technology, the tender is actually gonna be for 200 aircraft (if we induct 250 of them), and hence way beyond the 1.6 billion dollars, making it well above 3.2 billion USD. That's just avionics and equal to a third of the entire 126 aircraft Indian MMRCA. For a modern fighte aircraft the cost is broken down into three equal parts, which are Avionics, Engines and then the Structure/Airframe (Airframes slightly more in case of Stealth aircraft).
So do the math.

So the question of we having a war torn economy is baseless. Posting a 2.5 pct growth,while no negative effects by the recession is pretty much i think any country can do, considering we are at war since 2001.


It's about time PAF went shopping, and anything they induct in future is bound to give Indians countless shivers. Keep in mind we have operated both western and Chinese Aircrafts and our experience with them is something that is priceless and no Indian billion dollar MMRCA can achieve.


Yay, we are getting all f-16s upgraded to blk 52 and new ones 52+. Under the command of the PAF, that's heck lot of a fire power. Our F-16 capability by 2012 would be doubled.


Cheers!

 

[pak-yes]

I highly doubt the stated deal was anywhere around $8 billion. Of $8 billion PAF could have bought Rafale. The avionics are much cheaper.

IAF upgraded its entire fleet of Mirage 2000. The upgrade was a major upgrade and still it costs us less than this.

PAF's JF-17 deal is actually 1.2 billion euros and just $1.6 billion.
The 6 billion euros number is total for all the deals including PAF, Army and Navy.
DAWN.COM | World | France says arms sale to Pakistan held up


So no MRCA.

No more speculation now please.

Sardar Ji its very strange that being an Indian you haven't visited that JF-17 Avionics cancellation thread.Many Members have Posted news from multiple sources that 1.6 Billion was just the first stage of a 6 Billion Euro( 8 Billion Dollar) Contract.

 

[desiman]

Just buying the jets is not the thing, maintaining them also takes a lot of money. Even if the PAF managed to get the same amount of jets that are coming to India under the MRCA deal, the PAF would be running them on water as they would on money for fuel lol There is much more that you see behind such huge deals.

 

[Donatello]

Just buying the jets is not the thing, maintaining them also takes a lot of money. Even if the PAF managed to get the same amount of jets that are coming to India under the MRCA deal, the PAF would be running them on water as they would on money for fuel lol There is much more that you see behind such huge deals.

PAF has been supporting Western jets, like F-86, F-104 and F-16s and they certainly weren't running them on water.

There is a reason why PAF wants a low cost plane. Low here doesn't mean the low cost of purchase but rather low cost in running and maintaining.

Cheaper Chinese support/local support and one engine meaning one jet is not as fuel thirsty as a Typhoon or F-18 or Rafale.


Seriously man, why do you even bother opening your mouth!