Fukuoka
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2014
- Messages
- 3,035
- Reaction score
- -8
- Country
- Location
Why China will “reclaim” Siberia
- Thread starter Fukuoka
- Start date
Alienoz_TR
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2012
- Messages
- 4,170
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
China has never in history set its foot on Siberia. Claiming, maybe. Reclaiming, not possible.
Appereantly border agreement, which happened a few years back, didnt suffice, i see.
Appereantly border agreement, which happened a few years back, didnt suffice, i see.
Pangu
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2014
- Messages
- 1,501
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
An American prophecy, yeah right 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why China Will Reclaim Siberia
Frank Jacobs, the author of "Strange Maps: An Atlas of Cartographic Curiosities," blogs at Big Think.
Updated July 4, 2014, 12:32 PM
Joe Burgess/The New York Times
“A land without people for a people without land.” At the turn of the 20th century, that slogan promoted Jewish migration to Palestine. It could be recycled today, justifying a Chinese takeover of Siberia. Of course, Russia's Asian hinterland isn't really empty (and neither was Palestine). But Siberia is as resource-rich and people-poor as China is the opposite. The weight of that logic scares the Kremlin.
Moscow recently restored the Imperial Arch in the Far Eastern frontier town of Blagoveshchensk, declaring: “The earth along the Amur was, is and always will be Russian.” But Russia's title to all of the land is only about 150 years old. And the sprawl of highrises in Heihe, the Chinese boomtown on the south bank of the Amur, right across from Blagoveshchensk, casts doubt on the “always will be” part of the old czarist slogan.
Like love, a border is real only if both sides believe in it. And on both sides of the Sino-Russian border, that belief is wavering.
Siberia – the Asian part of Russia, east of the Ural Mountains – is immense. It takes up three-quarters of Russia's land mass, the equivalent of the entire U.S. and India put together. It's hard to imagine such a vast area changing hands. But like love, a border is real only if both sides believe in it. And on both sides of the Sino-Russian border, that belief is wavering.
The border, all 2,738 miles of it, is the legacy of the Convention of Peking of 1860 and other unequal pacts between a strong, expanding Russia and a weakened China after the Second Opium War. (Other European powers similarly encroached upon China, but from the south. Hence the former British foothold in Hong Kong, for example.)
The 1.35 billion Chinese people south of the border outnumber Russia's 144 million almost 10 to 1. The discrepancy is even starker for Siberia on its own, home to barely 38 million people, and especially the border area, where only 6 million Russians face over 90 million Chinese. With intermarriage, trade and investment across that border, Siberians have realized that, for better or for worse, Beijing is a lot closer than Moscow.
The vast expanses of Siberia would provide not just room for China's huddled masses, now squeezed into the coastal half of their country by the mountains and deserts of western China. The land is already providing China, “the factory of the world,” with much of its raw materials, especially oil, gas and timber. Increasingly, Chinese-owned factories in Siberia churn out finished goods, as if the region already were a part of the Middle Kingdom's economy.
One day, China might want the globe to match the reality. In fact, Beijing could use Russia's own strategy: hand out passports to sympathizers in contested areas, then move in militarily to "protect its citizens." The Kremlin has tried that in Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and most recently the Crimea, all formally part of other post-Soviet states, but controlled by Moscow. And if Beijing chose to take Siberia by force, the only way Moscow could stop would be using nuclear weapons.
There is another path: Under Vladimir Putin, Russia is increasingly looking east for its future – building a Eurasian Union even wider than the one inaugurated recently in Astana, the capital of Kazakhstan, a staunch Moscow ally. Perhaps two existing blocs – the Eurasian one encompassing Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization – could unite China, Russia and most of the 'stans. Putin's critics fear that this economic integration would reduce Russia, especially Siberia, to a raw materials exporter beholden to Greater China. And as the Chinese learned from the humiliation of 1860, facts on the ground can become lines on the map.
Why China Will Reclaim Siberia - NYTimes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why China Will Reclaim Siberia
Frank Jacobs, the author of "Strange Maps: An Atlas of Cartographic Curiosities," blogs at Big Think.
Updated July 4, 2014, 12:32 PM
“A land without people for a people without land.” At the turn of the 20th century, that slogan promoted Jewish migration to Palestine. It could be recycled today, justifying a Chinese takeover of Siberia. Of course, Russia's Asian hinterland isn't really empty (and neither was Palestine). But Siberia is as resource-rich and people-poor as China is the opposite. The weight of that logic scares the Kremlin.
Moscow recently restored the Imperial Arch in the Far Eastern frontier town of Blagoveshchensk, declaring: “The earth along the Amur was, is and always will be Russian.” But Russia's title to all of the land is only about 150 years old. And the sprawl of highrises in Heihe, the Chinese boomtown on the south bank of the Amur, right across from Blagoveshchensk, casts doubt on the “always will be” part of the old czarist slogan.
Like love, a border is real only if both sides believe in it. And on both sides of the Sino-Russian border, that belief is wavering.
Siberia – the Asian part of Russia, east of the Ural Mountains – is immense. It takes up three-quarters of Russia's land mass, the equivalent of the entire U.S. and India put together. It's hard to imagine such a vast area changing hands. But like love, a border is real only if both sides believe in it. And on both sides of the Sino-Russian border, that belief is wavering.
The border, all 2,738 miles of it, is the legacy of the Convention of Peking of 1860 and other unequal pacts between a strong, expanding Russia and a weakened China after the Second Opium War. (Other European powers similarly encroached upon China, but from the south. Hence the former British foothold in Hong Kong, for example.)
The 1.35 billion Chinese people south of the border outnumber Russia's 144 million almost 10 to 1. The discrepancy is even starker for Siberia on its own, home to barely 38 million people, and especially the border area, where only 6 million Russians face over 90 million Chinese. With intermarriage, trade and investment across that border, Siberians have realized that, for better or for worse, Beijing is a lot closer than Moscow.
The vast expanses of Siberia would provide not just room for China's huddled masses, now squeezed into the coastal half of their country by the mountains and deserts of western China. The land is already providing China, “the factory of the world,” with much of its raw materials, especially oil, gas and timber. Increasingly, Chinese-owned factories in Siberia churn out finished goods, as if the region already were a part of the Middle Kingdom's economy.
One day, China might want the globe to match the reality. In fact, Beijing could use Russia's own strategy: hand out passports to sympathizers in contested areas, then move in militarily to "protect its citizens." The Kremlin has tried that in Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and most recently the Crimea, all formally part of other post-Soviet states, but controlled by Moscow. And if Beijing chose to take Siberia by force, the only way Moscow could stop would be using nuclear weapons.
There is another path: Under Vladimir Putin, Russia is increasingly looking east for its future – building a Eurasian Union even wider than the one inaugurated recently in Astana, the capital of Kazakhstan, a staunch Moscow ally. Perhaps two existing blocs – the Eurasian one encompassing Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization – could unite China, Russia and most of the 'stans. Putin's critics fear that this economic integration would reduce Russia, especially Siberia, to a raw materials exporter beholden to Greater China. And as the Chinese learned from the humiliation of 1860, facts on the ground can become lines on the map.
Why China Will Reclaim Siberia - NYTimes.com
Open your eyes wide, it is a view from an article by some street-side reporter outside China
Kamikaze Pilot
BANNED
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Messages
- 5,241
- Reaction score
- -66
- Country
- Location
What do Russians think of it?
AgentOrange
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2014
- Messages
- 1,247
- Reaction score
- 4
- Country
- Location
It's always been a favorite Western conceit that "China will take Russian territories", as if this exonerates the West from their own penchant for backstabbing Russia, looking down on Russia, or slowly encircling Russia while interfering in Russia's traditional spheres of influence.
But let's all be realistic. How much blood and treasure would it cost for China to invade, hold, and exploit Russian territory against the will of the Russian people? China would be bled dry assuming China isn't nuked into oblivion first. The Chinese are the ultimate pragmatists. It simply doesn't make sense to "invade" and conduct large scale land grabs of populated areas like Europeans did in the past. The same people that are projecting their absurd ideas onto China now.
Also, Russia is willing to sell China natural resources at a mutually agreed upon price. It's a thing known as trade and provides China with everything China needs from Russia.
No, for the forseeable future and a long time after that, Russia and China will maintain good relations while Russia's hatred for Western European hypocrisy increases. Deal with your own problems and kindly leave China out of your crazy plans.
applesauce
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2009
- Messages
- 3,579
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
this is beyond stupid.
first lets establish where this article came from, NYTimes, hardly neutral.
second, war involves a lot of death and loss of treasure much more so when both are thermo-nuclear powers
third, why fight for it when you can simply buy what you need, no like china fears a land invasion from anyone now or in the forseeable future anyhow.
forth, siberia is unpopulated for the same reason that western china is unpopulated, the environment doesnt suit a large population, the whole 200million chinese on one side/15 million russians on the other side argument makes little sense.
fifth, unlike say the disputed area with japan/india china, whatever the cause of the current border, the PRC has accepted the current borders with russia leaving no land disputes, and PRC has never once in its entire history expanded its claims, only contracted as various disputed areas are solved through negotiation.
so basically.
china will buy what resources it needs
siberia is not a nice place to live in
nuclear wars are bad
first lets establish where this article came from, NYTimes, hardly neutral.
second, war involves a lot of death and loss of treasure much more so when both are thermo-nuclear powers
third, why fight for it when you can simply buy what you need, no like china fears a land invasion from anyone now or in the forseeable future anyhow.
forth, siberia is unpopulated for the same reason that western china is unpopulated, the environment doesnt suit a large population, the whole 200million chinese on one side/15 million russians on the other side argument makes little sense.
fifth, unlike say the disputed area with japan/india china, whatever the cause of the current border, the PRC has accepted the current borders with russia leaving no land disputes, and PRC has never once in its entire history expanded its claims, only contracted as various disputed areas are solved through negotiation.
so basically.
china will buy what resources it needs
siberia is not a nice place to live in
nuclear wars are bad
JSCh
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 13,235
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
A blog called ChinaDailyMail by some guy named Craig Hill.
Monday, 1 April 2013
Scam Alert - Craig Hill & China Daily Mail Are Fraud Fronts
Hello All,
I am writing this "unusual" blog only to warn you about someone I have known for over 12 years in Australia and 2 years here in China. In fact, he was the one who persuaded me to come to China to teach. He claims to be a "corporate trainer" and an "Editor" (of his own blog called the China Daily Mail) but here is the truth, and why he is not to be trusted nor believed...
In reality, Craig is a former prison guard from down under and if you ask him why he lost that job he will change the subject. If you ask what qualifies him to be a "corporate trainer" he will show you a phony resume that does not mention he was a prison guard or a citizen who had "problems" with the authorities in Brisbane and Sydney - in fact the true reason why he came to China. In Australia he used different names including Craig Hillier, Kenneth Craig Hill, Ken Hill, Craig Hill, and Greg Hill. Here in China he became "Craig Hill" and for all I know he uses other names as well.
As the self-proclaimed editor of China Daily Mail he cuts and pastes dozens of articles from Xinhua, Asia News Service, Reuters, Bloomberg, etc. and publishes them under his own name after adding only one or two sentences and changing less than a dozen words in a 500 word news brief. In most countries this is called Plagiarism But in China we all know it is called "normal"
Before I explain why I am turning against my former friend and exposing his deceitful ways, you should also know that he goes by the names of "Traveler" at EChinaCities.com and as "Chaofan" at thebeijinger.com (two forums in China).
If you read his blog and take screen capture prints as I did, you will see that he also talks about "doing business" with "Mona" and a few other people. What kind of business? Well Craig had an affair in the past with a woman known as Rebecca Tang who is the owner of the infamous China ESL agency which has a horrible reputation for exploiting foreign teachers in China. You can Google "Rebecca Tang, scam, Beijing, China ESL" and read the horror stories for yourself or you can click on these links for a quick overview and see her signature on a contract that take 66% of a teacher's salary and her own written post, admits that she charges money for invitation and release letters (a blatant violation of China law)
BEWARE CHINAESL--SCAM ALERT, Rebecca Tang will rip you off! | the Beijinger
http://www.tefl.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5784
http://www.thebeijinger.com/node/1592803
.......
(And near the end, there is this, oh boy...)
SIGNIFICANT UPDATE - May 5th, 2013:
As "Kenneth Craig Hill" Craig Hill was official found by a Queensland Court in Australia "to suffer from disabling mental disorders" and he even admitted it in his bid to collect on a fraudulent worker's compensation claim. Details can be found below and by Googling "Kenneth Craig Hill, QLD". So either Craig really is mentally disturbed, or his first scam attempt was against the government of Australia. Read below...
Link: Scam Alert! China Daily Mail & Craig Hill Are Frauds
Monday, 1 April 2013
Scam Alert - Craig Hill & China Daily Mail Are Fraud Fronts
Hello All,
I am writing this "unusual" blog only to warn you about someone I have known for over 12 years in Australia and 2 years here in China. In fact, he was the one who persuaded me to come to China to teach. He claims to be a "corporate trainer" and an "Editor" (of his own blog called the China Daily Mail) but here is the truth, and why he is not to be trusted nor believed...
In reality, Craig is a former prison guard from down under and if you ask him why he lost that job he will change the subject. If you ask what qualifies him to be a "corporate trainer" he will show you a phony resume that does not mention he was a prison guard or a citizen who had "problems" with the authorities in Brisbane and Sydney - in fact the true reason why he came to China. In Australia he used different names including Craig Hillier, Kenneth Craig Hill, Ken Hill, Craig Hill, and Greg Hill. Here in China he became "Craig Hill" and for all I know he uses other names as well.
As the self-proclaimed editor of China Daily Mail he cuts and pastes dozens of articles from Xinhua, Asia News Service, Reuters, Bloomberg, etc. and publishes them under his own name after adding only one or two sentences and changing less than a dozen words in a 500 word news brief. In most countries this is called Plagiarism But in China we all know it is called "normal"
Before I explain why I am turning against my former friend and exposing his deceitful ways, you should also know that he goes by the names of "Traveler" at EChinaCities.com and as "Chaofan" at thebeijinger.com (two forums in China).
If you read his blog and take screen capture prints as I did, you will see that he also talks about "doing business" with "Mona" and a few other people. What kind of business? Well Craig had an affair in the past with a woman known as Rebecca Tang who is the owner of the infamous China ESL agency which has a horrible reputation for exploiting foreign teachers in China. You can Google "Rebecca Tang, scam, Beijing, China ESL" and read the horror stories for yourself or you can click on these links for a quick overview and see her signature on a contract that take 66% of a teacher's salary and her own written post, admits that she charges money for invitation and release letters (a blatant violation of China law)
BEWARE CHINAESL--SCAM ALERT, Rebecca Tang will rip you off! | the Beijinger
http://www.tefl.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5784
http://www.thebeijinger.com/node/1592803
.......
(And near the end, there is this, oh boy...)
SIGNIFICANT UPDATE - May 5th, 2013:
As "Kenneth Craig Hill" Craig Hill was official found by a Queensland Court in Australia "to suffer from disabling mental disorders" and he even admitted it in his bid to collect on a fraudulent worker's compensation claim. Details can be found below and by Googling "Kenneth Craig Hill, QLD". So either Craig really is mentally disturbed, or his first scam attempt was against the government of Australia. Read below...
Link: Scam Alert! China Daily Mail & Craig Hill Are Frauds
American_Millenium
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2013
- Messages
- 747
- Reaction score
- 1
- Country
- Location
Wouldn't be surprised if Gordon Change was just some random Chinese scammer trying to make a buck
Similar threads
