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Why Bangladesh overtook Pakistan

Just happens to be a very important one for most people in South Asia. If its in decline in BD (i.e not a bad data artefact of some sort), that is serious cause for concern given its already not at great level and should be charging towards 2500 calories per capita at least...not seeing a decline.

I said same thing during quick survey consumption studies that came out for India, but some better calibrated data ones have come out since that show growth (though not as good as I would like). I would assume Bangladesh HIES should be of the qualitative level of the latter.

Consumption reduces in sense if people used to consume 15 days beef/mutton now they have reduced to few days. However they now consume chicken from farm which are risky for health. They have substituted foods at home. But at the same time people are eating out as well. It’s combination of everything. You are raising something but lowering something else and adding something with raised income. But no one is hungry anymore. Only concern is they are not getting proper nutrition.

As young Bangladeshis are eating out a lot obesity is on the rise!!

www.thedailystar.net/health/obesity-increasing-in-bangladesh-younger-generation-1637107%3famp
 
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Consumption reduces in sense if people used to consume 15 days beef/mutton now they have reduced to few days. However they now consume chicken from farm which are risky for health. They have substituted foods at home. But at the same time people are eating out as well. It’s combination of everything. You are raising something but lowering something else and adding something with raised income. But no one is hungry anymore. Only concern is they are not getting proper nutrition.

Nah if all that is going on, there is no reason for calorie intake to fall. Fall to 2200 calories per capita from 2300 is not enough for there to be "improvement" in the quality of diet to explain away. At the least there should have been a hold at 2300 level for your argument to kick in. I mean its like saying its ok for people to consume less as long as they are consuming more different kind of things....not buying it given the low base and people should be both increasing their level and diversity at same time.

But anyway your other factors will be seen here, lets see how Bangladesh does there over the coming years too:

https://foodsecurityindex.eiu.com/Country/Details#Bangladesh

Bangladesh is still at 20% for diet diversification (i.e calories that come from non-starchy sources)

India at 43%, Pakistan at 51%, Sri Lanka at 44%. @Gibbs @Pandora

World average is 53%
 
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No point sharing any thoughts on this.
  1. Liberal, progressive Pakistanis will purse their lips, say 'Good for you' in a kind but absent-minded kind of way, and go back to worrying about their own problems;
  2. Pakistani jingoes will go red in the face, stutter in rage at the impertinence of bloody Bengalis pretending that they can ever equal the uber-mensch, and call in Nilgiri for a tactical nuclear strike on their own positions - anything, so long as it destroys a few Bangladeshis also;
  3. @Nilgiri will drop by, mention with facts and figures that Bangladesh is worse off today than in 1904 (the year before the First Partition of Bengal), and remind everyone that he loves Bangladesh at heart; these kind remarks are merely to keep his little friends on their little toes, so that they grow up as decent, right-wing mavens;
  4. Bangladeshis will pick themselves up from the floor, look around at their growing prosperity, try to figure out why they are found to be slipping backwards, scratch their heads in bewilderment, and go back to learning and earning;
  5. Joe will write a point-by-point analysis of the situation and go back to putting both palms on his face, all the while forgetting to take his BP medication and getting a worse headache.

Thanks for the analysis Dada. :lol:

In most cases reductionism is not such a great thing but your efforts and results are as usual - stellar. :-)

I am afraid that a lot of Bangladeshis not sharing the administration's viewpoint will go silent now and spend more time with their families. RAB (Rapid Action Battalion) has been known to show up at people's doors less than an hour after a nasty Facebook post....and people go 'missing', at least temporarily....

Did you say GDP is shrinking? Are you high?

Because of the Rupee-Dollar depreciation, not in real terms. That is what I meant. Please read the article I linked.

Real growth is going towards recreation, travel and tourism, purchasing luxury goods, maintaining higher living standard, spending more on housing, transportation, spending more on children’s education etc. Consumption of food is just one aspect of the growth.

At some point in the growth cycle I have noticed that growth becomes self-sustaining - meaning the demographic dividend pays off not only in providing workers but also voracious consumers of all sorts of electronic consumer items as well things needed for a changed lifestyle. Which is exactly what is happening in Bangladesh I believe.

The guy who invented the n11 buzzword said as much, but his predictions regarding a lot of N11 countries did not pan out....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How the “Next 11” Countries Could Power the World Economy
By Jim O’Neill
April 28, 2018


On a recent holiday in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, I couldn’t resist thinking about these countries’ economic potential and ongoing policy challenges. After all, in 2005 my Goldman Sachs colleagues and I had listed Vietnam as one of the Next Eleven, or N-11, all countries with the potential to become important economies during this century.

Vietnam reported that its real (inflation-adjusted) growth in gross domestic product growth was 7.4% in the latest quarter, outpacing China. And, according to the World Bank’s forecast, Vietnam, along with Cambodia and Laos, is on track to maintain a similar level of growth for the year.


The N-11 never acquired the cachet of the BRIC acronym, which I coined in 2001 to describe a bloc of emerging economies (Brazil, Russia, India, and China) that stood to have a significant impact on the world economy in the future. The N-11 countries weren’t at the level of the BRICs, nor was either acronym intended to be an investment theme. Rather, N-11 was simply a label we applied to the next 11 most populous, highest-potential emerging economies after the BRICs.

Around the time that we published the 2005 paper “How Solid are the BRICs?”, in which we first identified the N-11, I often joked that we chose 11 simply because it was the number of players on a soccer team. When others would point out that we had excluded more populous countries such as Congo and Ethiopia, I would muse that Ethiopia could be the N-11’s Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, in reference to Manchester United’s brilliant sub-in scorer during the 1990s.

Then as now, the N-11 comprised a mixed bag: South Korea, Mexico, Indonesia, Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Nigeria, the Philippines, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Vietnam. These countries have extremely diverse economic and social conditions, and very different levels of wealth. For example, South Koreans enjoy a standard of living similar to that in the European Union, which makes many analysts’ persistent categorization of South Korea as an “emerging economy” all the more baffling.


Meanwhile, Mexico and Turkey’s levels of wealth haven’t come anywhere near that of South Korea, yet they are considerably wealthier than the rest of the N-11, some of which remain among the poorest countries in the world.

At the same time, Asian N-11 countries such as the Philippines and Vietnam have grown significantly since 2005, while Mexico’s performance has been somewhat disappointing, and Egypt’s even more so.

Collectively, the N-11 has some 1.5 billion people, and its nominal GDP is around $6.5 trillion. In other words, while its population is slightly larger than that of China or India, its economy is about half the size of China’s, but larger than Japan’s and more than twice the size of India’s.


These divergences help explain why a number of new acronymic groupings have since been carved out of the N-11, including the MINT (Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria, Turkey) and the MIST (swapping in South Korea for Nigeria).


I didn’t devise these groupings, but I have come to be associated with them, having produced a BBC radio documentary on the MINT countries in 2014. At any rate, they were in keeping with earlier points I had raised: namely, that by 2010, Mexico, Indonesia, South Korea, and Turkey would each account for more than 1% of global GDP.

Eight years later, the MIST economies still have a chance to account for around 2% to 3% of world GDP in the future. None is likely to reach the size of any of the BRIC economies, except, perhaps, Russia. Owing to its problems, Russia’s GDP is around the same size as South Korea’s. If it doesn’t sort itself out soon, its GDP could fall below that of Mexico, or even Indonesia.

Of the other seven N-11 economies, Nigeria, Vietnam, and perhaps Iran stand out for having the most potential. Still, each faces serious obstacles to becoming a $1 trillion economy, never mind accounting for 2% to 3% of world GDP.

Looking beyond each of these countries’ individual prospects, what is important for economic observers and investment professionals to understand is that the N-11 as a bloc has grown by around 4.5% so far this decade, after growing by almost 4% in the previous decade. Given the size of its output, the N-11’s growth is contributing significantly to the world economy, alongside the primary drivers of China and India.

I kept reminding myself of this fact while traveling around Vietnam, where my tranquility was repeatedly interrupted by blaring headlines about President Donald Trump’s tweets and escalating violence in the Middle East.


Before heading to Vietnam, I had the privilege of writing a review for Nature of Factfulness: Ten Reasons We’re Wrong About the World—and Why Things Are Better Than You Think, a brilliant book by the late physician Hans Rosling, which his daughter published posthumously this year. Factfulness is one of just a few recent works to focus on the remarkably positive things happening in the world. Rosling, along with Harvard University’s Steven Pinker, was right to be optimistic. An unblinkered view of the world reveals many promising signs, especially for the global economy.

Jim O’Neill, a former chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management and former Commercial Secretary to the U.K. Treasury, is Honorary Professor of Economics at Manchester University.

Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2018.



 
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Thanks for the analysis Dada. :lol:

In most cases reductionism is not such a great thing but your efforts and results are as usual - stellar. :-)

I am afraid that a lot of Bangladeshis not sharing the administration's viewpoint will go silent now and spend more time with their families. RAB (Rapid Action Battalion) has been known to show up at people's doors less than an hour after a nasty Facebook post....and people go 'missing', at least temporarily....



Because of the Rupee-Dollar depreciation, not in real terms. That is what I meant. Please read the article I linked.



At some point in the growth cycle I have noticed that growth becomes self-sustaining - meaning the demographic dividend pays off not only in providing workers but also voracious consumers of all sorts of electronic consumer items as well things needed for a changed lifestyle. Which is exactly what is happening in Bangladesh I believe.

The guy who invented the n11 buzzword said as much, but his predictions regarding a lot of N11 countries did not pan out....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How the “Next 11” Countries Could Power the World Economy
By Jim O’Neill
April 28, 2018


On a recent holiday in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, I couldn’t resist thinking about these countries’ economic potential and ongoing policy challenges. After all, in 2005 my Goldman Sachs colleagues and I had listed Vietnam as one of the Next Eleven, or N-11, all countries with the potential to become important economies during this century.

Vietnam reported that its real (inflation-adjusted) growth in gross domestic product growth was 7.4% in the latest quarter, outpacing China. And, according to the World Bank’s forecast, Vietnam, along with Cambodia and Laos, is on track to maintain a similar level of growth for the year.


The N-11 never acquired the cachet of the BRIC acronym, which I coined in 2001 to describe a bloc of emerging economies (Brazil, Russia, India, and China) that stood to have a significant impact on the world economy in the future. The N-11 countries weren’t at the level of the BRICs, nor was either acronym intended to be an investment theme. Rather, N-11 was simply a label we applied to the next 11 most populous, highest-potential emerging economies after the BRICs.

Around the time that we published the 2005 paper “How Solid are the BRICs?”, in which we first identified the N-11, I often joked that we chose 11 simply because it was the number of players on a soccer team. When others would point out that we had excluded more populous countries such as Congo and Ethiopia, I would muse that Ethiopia could be the N-11’s Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, in reference to Manchester United’s brilliant sub-in scorer during the 1990s.

Then as now, the N-11 comprised a mixed bag: South Korea, Mexico, Indonesia, Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Nigeria, the Philippines, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Vietnam. These countries have extremely diverse economic and social conditions, and very different levels of wealth. For example, South Koreans enjoy a standard of living similar to that in the European Union, which makes many analysts’ persistent categorization of South Korea as an “emerging economy” all the more baffling.


Meanwhile, Mexico and Turkey’s levels of wealth haven’t come anywhere near that of South Korea, yet they are considerably wealthier than the rest of the N-11, some of which remain among the poorest countries in the world.

At the same time, Asian N-11 countries such as the Philippines and Vietnam have grown significantly since 2005, while Mexico’s performance has been somewhat disappointing, and Egypt’s even more so.

Collectively, the N-11 has some 1.5 billion people, and its nominal GDP is around $6.5 trillion. In other words, while its population is slightly larger than that of China or India, its economy is about half the size of China’s, but larger than Japan’s and more than twice the size of India’s.


These divergences help explain why a number of new acronymic groupings have since been carved out of the N-11, including the MINT (Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria, Turkey) and the MIST (swapping in South Korea for Nigeria).


I didn’t devise these groupings, but I have come to be associated with them, having produced a BBC radio documentary on the MINT countries in 2014. At any rate, they were in keeping with earlier points I had raised: namely, that by 2010, Mexico, Indonesia, South Korea, and Turkey would each account for more than 1% of global GDP.

Eight years later, the MIST economies still have a chance to account for around 2% to 3% of world GDP in the future. None is likely to reach the size of any of the BRIC economies, except, perhaps, Russia. Owing to its problems, Russia’s GDP is around the same size as South Korea’s. If it doesn’t sort itself out soon, its GDP could fall below that of Mexico, or even Indonesia.

Of the other seven N-11 economies, Nigeria, Vietnam, and perhaps Iran stand out for having the most potential. Still, each faces serious obstacles to becoming a $1 trillion economy, never mind accounting for 2% to 3% of world GDP.

Looking beyond each of these countries’ individual prospects, what is important for economic observers and investment professionals to understand is that the N-11 as a bloc has grown by around 4.5% so far this decade, after growing by almost 4% in the previous decade. Given the size of its output, the N-11’s growth is contributing significantly to the world economy, alongside the primary drivers of China and India.

I kept reminding myself of this fact while traveling around Vietnam, where my tranquility was repeatedly interrupted by blaring headlines about President Donald Trump’s tweets and escalating violence in the Middle East.


Before heading to Vietnam, I had the privilege of writing a review for Nature of Factfulness: Ten Reasons We’re Wrong About the World—and Why Things Are Better Than You Think, a brilliant book by the late physician Hans Rosling, which his daughter published posthumously this year. Factfulness is one of just a few recent works to focus on the remarkably positive things happening in the world. Rosling, along with Harvard University’s Steven Pinker, was right to be optimistic. An unblinkered view of the world reveals many promising signs, especially for the global economy.

Jim O’Neill, a former chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management and former Commercial Secretary to the U.K. Treasury, is Honorary Professor of Economics at Manchester University.

Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2018.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/pimco-favors-japanese-and-european-stocks-1442943637

 
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@Nilgiri Could you tell me the definition of narcissism? I don't want to cause some-one high blood pressure, so asking you instead. Last time I had a chat with a person and the attitude was 'You are beneath me you lowly scum, you who have only 500 posts dare challenge me'. Feel like some people here have very inflated ego's. And the only achievement, they could brag on here is the number of their posts. Situation is/was funny and sad at the same time.

#102 Wished I could have linked @RetiredTroll but sad they got him. rip :(
 
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@Nilgiri Could you tell me the definition of narcissism? I don't want to cause some-one high blood pressure, so asking you instead. Last time I had a chat with a person and the attitude was 'You are beneath me you lowly scum, you who have only 500 posts dare challenge me'. Feel like some people here have very inflated ego's. And the only achievement, they could brag on here is the number of their posts. Situation is/was funny and sad at the same time.

#102 Wished I could have linked @RetiredTroll but sad they got him. rip :(

Narcissism is when you are in love with yourself (to the expense of everything and everyone else)....literally. It comes from the Greek story of narcissus.

Basically its the highest level/form of ego one could have (i.e the self is the ONLY existence worth anything).

Most of us have engaged in it to some degree given we all have some level of ego.

An unfettered/extreme narcissist is rarer, but they stand out and are of course very off-putting.
 
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It already came out. Bangladesh's GDP is now 313 Billion USD as of 2019 while Pakistan's GDP has dropped to 283 billion USD.

Please look at page 21 & 22 of this report to get the list:

https://cebr.com/download/5211/

Pakistan has dropped from 41st to 44th on the list this year in 2019. Pakistan's detail info can be found at page 175.

It was discussed in detail here:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-2nd-largest-economy-in-south-asia.595543/

It is hard to tell this to Pakistanis without appearing like we Bangladeshis are boasting or doing one-up-manship.

I am genuinely concerned about the future of Pakistan and Pakistanis - some of whom happen to be good friends of my family.

I'm sure there are plenty of non-Pakistanis in this forum who'd be just fine with things the way they are, or even worse.

I am not one of them....
 
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