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Who's killing India's Secularism?

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Soumitra

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Who’s Killing India’s Secularism?
To beat Hindu extremists, India’s secularists need to champion equality before the law and accept that radical Islam is a problem.


BN-TH479_dhume_GR_20170504134213.jpg


The new Chief Minister of the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh Yogi Adityanath arrives at the Parliament in New Delhi, March 21. PHOTO: ASSOCIATED PRESS
By
Sadanand Dhume
Updated May 4, 2017 2:14 p.m. ET
7 COMMENTS

Minority rights in India are under threat. Scarcely a week passes without news of an attack on Muslims by vigilantes somewhere in the country.

Yogi Adityanath, a rabble-rousing monk-cum-politician best known for founding a thuggish private militia and whipping up anti-Muslim emotions, recently took charge of Uttar Pradesh, India’s largest state. On social media and on television, a shrill new breed of Hindu culture warriors makes no distinction between ordinary Muslims and a small, radicalized minority.

Against this backdrop, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has mostly struck the responsible tone expected of his office. Last year he condemned cow protection vigilantes who assault anyone they suspect of transporting cattle for slaughter. He has publicly praised Islam as a “great religion.”


But Mr. Modi’s support for Mr. Adityanath and studied silence over a spate of recent attacks on Muslims suggest a turn toward hardline identity politics ahead of national elections in 2019. In contrast, three years ago Mr. Modi won power by emphasizing economic development.

With the BJP ascendant—most serious observers expect Mr. Modi to cruise to re-election in two years—India’s secularists face arguably their biggest challenge since independence in 1947. A country long synonymous with pluralism may end up marginalizing its 172 million-strong Muslim minority, the largest Muslim population in the world outside Indonesia and Pakistan.

Not surprisingly, many members of India’s left-leaning intelligentsia simply blame the BJP and the Hindu nationalist movement to which it belongs for the upsurge in anti-Muslim sentiment. Reality is more complex.

As a large national party, the BJP accommodates many shades of opinion—from economic conservatives armed with Harvard MBAs to cultural hardliners preoccupied with battling Muslims and Christians. Mr. Adityanath’s elevation shows that the party has done a poor job of sidelining extremists who do not distinguish between the majority of peaceful Muslims and a radicalized minority. This begs the question: Why do so many Indians prefer the BJP to its opponents?

No single reason explains this preference, but it’s safe to say that the traditional version of Indian secularism associated with Congress has lost favor. More than 212 million people voted for the BJP and its allies in 2014, compared to about 129 million who opted for the alliance led by the left-of-center Congress Party. In March, the BJP crushed its opponents in Uttar Pradesh, nearly one-fifth of whose 200 million people are Muslim, by winning more than three-fourths of the seats in the state legislature.

Simply put, Indian secularism is in freefall. Those concerned that it will be replaced by Hindu chauvinism need to come up with a viable alternative.

For starters, secularists in the media and politics need to acknowledge that their model has failed. By not taking terrorism seriously, effectively condoning backward Islamic practices such as polygamy and divorce by verbal decree, and championing special rights for minorities rather than equal rights for all Indians, secularists have lost the moral high ground to Hindu nationalists.

Take Islamic terrorism. Instead of acknowledging that the global scourge affects India too, leading secular politicians do cartwheels to dodge the issue. After the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks, which killed 166 people, Congress Party General Secretary Digvijaya Singh helped launch a book that blamed the Hindu nationalist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (National Volunteer Corps), the Central Intelligence Agency and Mossad for the carnage.

Other party leaders support wild conspiracy theories impugning a decorated police officer who died in a 2008 shootout with terrorists in Delhi. Not long after the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States, another avowedly secular Indian politician from a regional party in Bihar engaged an Osama bin Laden lookalike to appeal to Muslim voters. Last week, Mr. Singh of Congress was at it again, this time blaming cops in the southern state of Telangana for allegedly driving Muslims to join Islamic State.

Moreover, Indian secularists tend to take a lackadaisical approach to reforming backward Islamic practices such as polygamy and divorce by verbal decree. Unlike Western democracies, India allows Muslims to follow separate sharia-based laws in civil matters including marriage, divorce and inheritance.

At independence, this was meant as a stopgap measure to give Muslim reformers time to modernize their customs. The lack of progress seven decades later gives Hindu nationalists a powerful weapon—effectively they are the only ones championing the idea of equality before the law.

A retooled Indian secularism would recognize these deficiencies. Back in the 1950s, it may have made sense for the Hindu majority to tiptoe around the sensitivities of the Muslim minority. At the time, Muslims accounted for less than 10% of the population. Islamic terrorism was virtually unheard of, and Islamists, champions of sharia law, were in retreat from Turkey to Indonesia.

Today, more than 14% of Indians are Muslim, terrorism is a global problem and Islamists are ascendant in much of the Muslim world. Secularists need to be tough on both terrorism and Islamism while nonetheless striving to ensure that Muslims are treated fairly as equal citizens. Unless they can find a way to do this, they should expect to give up more ground to the likes of Mr. Adityanath.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whos-killing-indias-secularism-1493920175?tesla=y
 
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Who’s Killing India’s Secularism?
To beat Hindu extremists, India’s secularists need to champion equality before the law and accept that radical Islam is a problem.


BN-TH479_dhume_GR_20170504134213.jpg


The new Chief Minister of the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh Yogi Adityanath arrives at the Parliament in New Delhi, March 21. PHOTO: ASSOCIATED PRESS
By
Sadanand Dhume
Updated May 4, 2017 2:14 p.m. ET
7 COMMENTS

Minority rights in India are under threat. Scarcely a week passes without news of an attack on Muslims by vigilantes somewhere in the country.

Yogi Adityanath, a rabble-rousing monk-cum-politician best known for founding a thuggish private militia and whipping up anti-Muslim emotions, recently took charge of Uttar Pradesh, India’s largest state. On social media and on television, a shrill new breed of Hindu culture warriors makes no distinction between ordinary Muslims and a small, radicalized minority.

Against this backdrop, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has mostly struck the responsible tone expected of his office. Last year he condemned cow protection vigilantes who assault anyone they suspect of transporting cattle for slaughter. He has publicly praised Islam as a “great religion.”


But Mr. Modi’s support for Mr. Adityanath and studied silence over a spate of recent attacks on Muslims suggest a turn toward hardline identity politics ahead of national elections in 2019. In contrast, three years ago Mr. Modi won power by emphasizing economic development.

With the BJP ascendant—most serious observers expect Mr. Modi to cruise to re-election in two years—India’s secularists face arguably their biggest challenge since independence in 1947. A country long synonymous with pluralism may end up marginalizing its 172 million-strong Muslim minority, the largest Muslim population in the world outside Indonesia and Pakistan.

Not surprisingly, many members of India’s left-leaning intelligentsia simply blame the BJP and the Hindu nationalist movement to which it belongs for the upsurge in anti-Muslim sentiment. Reality is more complex.

As a large national party, the BJP accommodates many shades of opinion—from economic conservatives armed with Harvard MBAs to cultural hardliners preoccupied with battling Muslims and Christians. Mr. Adityanath’s elevation shows that the party has done a poor job of sidelining extremists who do not distinguish between the majority of peaceful Muslims and a radicalized minority. This begs the question: Why do so many Indians prefer the BJP to its opponents?

No single reason explains this preference, but it’s safe to say that the traditional version of Indian secularism associated with Congress has lost favor. More than 212 million people voted for the BJP and its allies in 2014, compared to about 129 million who opted for the alliance led by the left-of-center Congress Party. In March, the BJP crushed its opponents in Uttar Pradesh, nearly one-fifth of whose 200 million people are Muslim, by winning more than three-fourths of the seats in the state legislature.

Simply put, Indian secularism is in freefall. Those concerned that it will be replaced by Hindu chauvinism need to come up with a viable alternative.

For starters, secularists in the media and politics need to acknowledge that their model has failed. By not taking terrorism seriously, effectively condoning backward Islamic practices such as polygamy and divorce by verbal decree, and championing special rights for minorities rather than equal rights for all Indians, secularists have lost the moral high ground to Hindu nationalists.

Take Islamic terrorism. Instead of acknowledging that the global scourge affects India too, leading secular politicians do cartwheels to dodge the issue. After the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks, which killed 166 people, Congress Party General Secretary Digvijaya Singh helped launch a book that blamed the Hindu nationalist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (National Volunteer Corps), the Central Intelligence Agency and Mossad for the carnage.

Other party leaders support wild conspiracy theories impugning a decorated police officer who died in a 2008 shootout with terrorists in Delhi. Not long after the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States, another avowedly secular Indian politician from a regional party in Bihar engaged an Osama bin Laden lookalike to appeal to Muslim voters. Last week, Mr. Singh of Congress was at it again, this time blaming cops in the southern state of Telangana for allegedly driving Muslims to join Islamic State.

Moreover, Indian secularists tend to take a lackadaisical approach to reforming backward Islamic practices such as polygamy and divorce by verbal decree. Unlike Western democracies, India allows Muslims to follow separate sharia-based laws in civil matters including marriage, divorce and inheritance.

At independence, this was meant as a stopgap measure to give Muslim reformers time to modernize their customs. The lack of progress seven decades later gives Hindu nationalists a powerful weapon—effectively they are the only ones championing the idea of equality before the law.

A retooled Indian secularism would recognize these deficiencies. Back in the 1950s, it may have made sense for the Hindu majority to tiptoe around the sensitivities of the Muslim minority. At the time, Muslims accounted for less than 10% of the population. Islamic terrorism was virtually unheard of, and Islamists, champions of sharia law, were in retreat from Turkey to Indonesia.

Today, more than 14% of Indians are Muslim, terrorism is a global problem and Islamists are ascendant in much of the Muslim world. Secularists need to be tough on both terrorism and Islamism while nonetheless striving to ensure that Muslims are treated fairly as equal citizens. Unless they can find a way to do this, they should expect to give up more ground to the likes of Mr. Adityanath.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whos-killing-indias-secularism-1493920175?tesla=y

So basically the way to help India's secularism is to act like the anti-secular extremists and remove the lines of minority and majority? So basically become the anti-seculars?

WOW Indians fighting fire with fire, I wonder how that will turn out...
 
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As long as Indians will be politically correct and won't call spade a spade without indulging in monkey balancing we will see BJP gain electorally. I suggest Secular parties must come together and make sure that Ram Mandir along with temples at Mathura and Kashi are rebuild. This will break BJP's Hindus vote bank and secular parties will have something other than minority appeasement to sell during elections. Keep this issue hanging and we might see BJP breaking into Muslim vote bank in the name of women empowerment or sectarian divide.

Fear mongering has outlived its sell by date, we all witnessed Church attacks during Delhi elections, Award Wapsi during Bihar and now latest burning topic is cow vigilantism, this will also fade away after Gujarat elections later this year.
 
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So basically the way to help India's secularism is to act like the anti-secular extremists and remove the lines of minority and majority? So basically become the anti-seculars?

WOW Indians fighting fire with fire, I wonder how that will turn out...
In a secular society there should be no minority or majority. Everyone is equal and should follow same laws. No airbrussing of terrorist incidents. Nation should be above religion
 
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In a secular society there should be no minority or majority. Everyone is equal and should follow same laws. No airbrussing of terrorist incidents. Nation should be above religion
Why bother responding to some tom , dick & harry who is just an interloper. Ignoring them is best response.
 
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To beat Hindu extremists, India’s secularists need to champion equality before the law and accept that radical Islam is a problem.

Goons don't count as Hindu practitioners just because they are using government's policies to forward their own agenda.

Dharmic nationalism is the fabric of this country and due to that only the people in this country are tolerant.

Look at Egypt, Nigeria, Syria, Cameroon, Sudan and South SUdan and see what organised religion does.

This is plenty proof that the Hindus and we all other sister faiths need to remain in absolute majority to keep the sanity of the nation.

Organised religions are vulnerable to being hijacked.

In a secular society there should be no minority or majority. Everyone is equal and should follow same laws. No airbrussing of terrorist incidents. Nation should be above religion

Which is what is Uniform Civil Code which only one religion has a problem with as they cannot pursue their agenda here.
 
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In a secular society there should be no minority or majority. Everyone is equal and should follow same laws. No airbrussing of terrorist incidents. Nation should be above religion
Cannot happen the union in india was axeepted after india would respect yheir cultural, religious rigths

Apply that in nagaland please
 
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In a secular society there should be no minority or majority. Everyone is equal and should follow same laws. No airbrussing of terrorist incidents. Nation should be above religion

You are taking to hypocrites who will never dare ask for such special rights for Muslim minorities in the US :lol:
 
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What is Secularism?
I dont know/care about majority of Indian peoples choice but Gujarat was, is and always be a hindu Republic state just like Pakistan is an islamic Republic.

We dont have 54 Hindu countries, we have no other place to go.beside Gujarat and North India.
 
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Moreover, Indian secularists tend to take a lackadaisical approach to reforming backward Islamic practices such as polygamy and divorce by verbal decree. Unlike Western democracies, India allows Muslims to follow separate sharia-based laws in civil matters including marriage, divorce and inheritance.

Polygamy is not a backward Islamic practice. Polygamy was banned in India for Hindus in 1954 .. As per a report published in 1975, the percentage of polygamous marriages (1951 -1961) was 5.06 among the Hindus and only 4.31 among the Muslims, despite it being illegal for Hindus. Hindus are more polygamous than Muslims ... The Hindu scriptures allow polygamy ...

The Hindus, following the west, had banned polygamy believing that it was immoral.... Islam and West have moral traditions that are fundamentally different .. In many cases what the west believe is "rational" and "moral", is considered "irrational" and "immoral" by the Muslims.


Modern man is averse to polygamy, not because he wants to be content with one wife, but because he wants to satisfy his sense of variety by indulging in unlimited adultery, for which ample facilities are available. Sin and not fidelity has taken the place of polygamy. That is why modern man is opposed to plurality of wives which commits him to many duties and responsibilities, financial and otherwise.


Gustave Le Bon rightly says that no Eastern custom is so infamous in Europe as polygamy, nor has Europe misjudged any other custom to the extent that it has misjudged this ... (See Civilisation des arabes for details)


Will Durant in his book, History of Civilization, vol.17, gives an interesting account of the state of morality in Italy during the renaissance. below is a summary of what he has said under the heading 'Morals in Sexual Relations'.

In the course of his brief introduction he says that before describing the morals of the laity it may be pointed out that by nature man is polygamous. Only strict moral restrictions, an adequate amount of hard work and poverty, and a continuous vigilance of the wife can compel him to maintain monogamy.

Then he says that adultery was not uncommon during the Middle Ages, prior to the Renaissance. As during the Middle Ages the guilt of adultery was extenuated by chivalry, similarly, during the Renaissance period, it was watered down among the educated classes by the craving for the polished manners and the refined spirit of the females. Girls belonging to respectable families were, to a certain extent, kept segregated from the males not connected with their own family and were taught the merits of pre -marital chastity. Sometimes these instructions were exceptionally effective. It is reported that a young woman, after being assaulted, drowned herself. That must have been an exceptional case, because a bishop took the trouble of installing her statue after her death to commemorate her chastity.

The number of pre-marital affairs must have been considerable, because there were innumerable children born of illegitimate relations in every town of Italy. It was a matter of pride not to have an illegitimate child, but to have one was not a matter of shame. Usually a husband persuaded his wife at the time of the marriage to bring her illegitimate child with her, to be brought up along with his children. Illegitimacy was not a slur on the reputation of anyone. Furthermore, a certificate of legitimacy could easily be obtained by bribing a clergyman. In the absence of other lawful or eligible heirs, an illegitimate son could inherit property and even a crown, as Frante-I, succeeded Alfonso-I, King of Naples. When in 1459 Pius-II came to Bavaria, he was received by seven princes, all of whom were illegitimate. Rivalry between the legitimate and illegitimate sons was an important cause of a long series of commotions during the Renaissance period. As far as homosexuality is concerned, it was only a revival of the ancient Greek tradition.

San Bernardino found this sort of perversion so common in Naples that he thought it to be threatened with the fate of Sodom. Artino found the perversion equally prevalent in Rome. The same thing can be said about prostitution. In 1490, out of a total population of 90,000, there were 6,800 registered prostitutes in Rome. Of course, this figure does not include clandestine and unofficial prostitutes. According to the statistics of 1509, out of a population of 300,000 of that city, there were 11,654 prostitutes. In the 15th century, a girl who had reached the age of 15 without having a husband, was regarded as a slur on the fair name of her family. In the 16th century, the 'age of disgrace' was extended up to 17 years, to enable the girls to receive higher education. Men, who enjoyed all the facilities provided by widespread prostitution, were attracted to marriage only if the woman concerned promised to bring a considerable dowry. According to the system of the Middle Ages, husband and wife were expected to love each other and share each other's joy and grief. Apparently in many cases this expectation came true, but still adultery was rampant. Most of the marriages of the upper classes were diplomatic unions contracted for political and economic gains. Many husbands regarded it as their right to have a mistress. The wife might feel dejected, but usually connived at the situation.

Among the middle classes, some people thought that adultery was a lawful pastime. Machiavelli and his friends apparently did not feel uneasy about the stories of their unfaithfulness which they exchanged with each other. When in such cases, the wife followed the example of her husband to wreak vengeance upon him, he usually connived at her behaviour and did not feel jealous or perturbed.


This was a specimen of the life of the people who regard polygamy as an unpardonable crime of the East and have occasionally blamed its climate for this supposedly inhuman custom. As far as their own climate is concerned, it does not allow them to be unfaithful to the wives and to exceed the limits of monogamy! ...


Bertrand Russell was conscious of the fact that in the case of monogamy being the sole form of marriage, a large number of women are to be deprived of their right. He has suggested a very simple solution to the problem. He wanted women to be allowed to entice men and bear father-less children. As the father usually supports the children, the government should take his place and give a subsidy to the unmarried mothers.

Russell says that at present, in Britain, there are more than two million surplus women who cannot ever hope to have children because of the law of monogamy. This is a big privation. He says that the system of monogamy is based on the presumption of approximate numerical equality between men and women, but where no such equality exists it gives a raw deal to those women who, in accordance with mathematical law, are doomed to remain unmarried. Anyhow, if it is desired to increase the population, such a raw deal is not even in the public interest, let alone in the private interest.

This is the solution of this social problem, as suggested by a great philosopher of the 20th century. But, according to Islam, the whole problem is solved if an adequate number of men having the necessary financial, moral and physical qualifications agree to bear the responsibility of more than one legal wife showing no distinction between her and his first wife and between the children by both of them. The first wife should accept the second one cheerfully with the spirit of doing a social duty, which is most necessary and the best form of morality.

Contrary to the Islamic mode of thinking, Russel advises the deprived women to steal the husbands of other women and call upon the government to support the children born of such illicit connections.
 
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I think Hindus have lost the plot frankly.

Sadly for them they have 200 million Muslims on the other side.

Its a big joke if they think they can turn this nation of ours into a Hindu rashtra.
 
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Islam and West have moral traditions that are fundamentally different .. In many cases what the west believe is "rational" and "moral", is considered "irrational" and "immoral" by the Muslims.
If this is the case why are their millions of Muslims in the West? It is very well known that muslims considered Islam over anything else even their country. So why drop the morality and go to immoral west just to earn some $$$
Isnt it hypocrisy of the highest order.

Russell says that at present, in Britain, there are more than two million surplus women who cannot ever hope to have children because of the law of monogamy. This is a big privation. He says that the system of monogamy is based on the presumption of approximate numerical equality between men and women, but where no such equality exists it gives a raw deal to those women who, in accordance with mathematical law, are doomed to remain unmarried. Anyhow, if it is desired to increase the population, such a raw deal is not even in the public interest, let alone in the private interest.

This does not apply to India. In India the population of women is less than men. And we have too much population. So polygamy is not in public or private interest in India
 
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I really hope there are Indians who don't act as dumb as you do.

Calm down.

I am only stating facts on the basis of reports that the world gets to hear.

If you have any clarification, please do make it.

Why being so defensive?
 
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