Where is the line between criticism and propaganda?

[313ghazi]

Mods - if this is the wrong forum to post this in please move it.

@The Eagle This is not directed at you and our exchange, but it is based upon conversations in the same thread. I'd welcome your thoughts.

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So with the recent uptick of violence in Balochistan, the criticism of armed forces and govt has increased on this forum. This isn't new, this is just a recent wave of it. When I was on Pakistanidefenceforumdotcom there was an almost zero tolerance policy to criticism of the armed forces, one which I actively applied. I used to be an ardhent supporter of Pervez Musharraf, I was full of praise for his every decision until the NRO. Even went as far as defending his coverups of US drone strikes on madrasahs when he claimed was done by PA Cobras. Heck i even defended him when he told the nation to cook with less tomatoes if prices were too high, or when he implied that Mukhat Mai who was gangraped was playing it up for a foreign visa.

We live and we learn, we hope for forgiveness for out mistakes.

I've long been a critic of our judicary who gives terrorists an easy ride, our law enforcement agencies for their inaction and poor cases, our political leadership for giving terrorists political legitimacy and not challenging and shutting down their supporters. I've also been critical of our media, parts of which are totally sold out and put money ahead of national interest. Many are paid propagandists for the enemy now. Now more recently, i've been critical of our senior military leadership. Perhaps it was reactionary after seeing so many other posts on the subject, idk. Since then i've had a thread deleted, a post deleted, and accused of being a propagandist by fellow members. @sparten says in his opinion i do it unintentionally, but I am doing it.

So I'd like to discuss where we personally draw the line between criticism and propaganda.

I myself have in the recent past criticised others for being too negative, for too much rhona thona over military losses. I believe that a big part of the effort of the enemy is to distrupt morale, to create a slippery slope where support for the operations will weaken. It's worked in other countries, it can work in ours too. Wars have been lost at the opinion polls before they were lost on the battlefield.

I don't think anyone should post from a source which is referencing enemy propaganda, especially a lot of these OSINT SM accounts which just recycle content put out by terrorist organisations and present it as their own information.

I do think criticism is valid as long as it's presented in a non offensive manner, even if it is devoid of solutions. None of us are army Generals, we might have ideas, but we don't have qualifications, experience or the mandate to implement any of these ideas. This is why i took offence at a post by @Flight of falcon suggesting @Zarvan should join the front lines if he is unhappy with the performance of our military leadership.

I don't want this topic to be about military leadership, i want it to be about where people think the line should be drawn between criticism and "propaganda". @Patriot forever you also made a point about criticism for criticisms sake. Where do you think the line should be?

 

[The Eagle]

Don't have much time to spoon-fed. Search different threads in this same section and you will find the lines.

This post alone proves the ignorance & so much of elitist mindset as of those Jawans are personal servants & other nationals have no responsibility to fulfill in such times of fighting terrorism or dealing with the enemy. Anyone reading your post can understand that how you compare the martyrdoms with and that's all. It is cheap & indirect insult. If you aren't even looking at your mistake; I don't see any reason to explain anything further to you.

These discussions are not about hoping for intellectual debate rather; one keeps insisting that he/she is right and others are wrong.... read again your post.

By your logic alone, and I say the same as like you sounded; you do not pay this Forum neither the Military to claim as such. How that sounds to you now? So, if you are serious to understand, read again & again what you say and what example I did put as above to make you understand.

Asking someone to join the ranks is not something like asking you to pick up the gun and start fighting. But then again, why don't you take it like you get paid for fighting but you don't do that. The example was quoted merely to walk in the shoes of those sacrificing with their lives or risking their lives always against the enemy. Yet, you responded that it is all about pay? Don't you think that is too rude to sound like or even call it an argument. This is nothing less than those Military haters venting their frustration given their helplessness as they couldn't take us down on the ground.

Why don't you explain your position by claiming as such? Are they fighting for Pakistan because they are paid and that's it? Isn't it means that there is no difference between military and terrorists since terrorists are paid as well to attack and kill people? Where is your line to begin with?

Maybe those who get paid for the responsibility should step down if you want @Zarvan to do it?