When Niazis contested for throne of Delhi

[jandk]

The main issue is indians "know" the art of assimilation, they will say you have jatts we also have jats so they are same, you have rajputs (pothohar) we also have rajputs (rajasthan) , you have gujjars we also have gujjars (in many indian states), so this means we are all the "same". Well if one goes to harappdna.org, it is clear that jatts, gujjars, rajputs of pakistan are genetically quite distinct from the corresponding castes in india. You have to know indians intention behind coming up with all this BS that you have community with "X" surname , we also have the community with "X" surname so you are our children, the main purpose of such claims is always to mentally and psychologically destroy the self-respect and distinction of pakistani people.

I think you are overthinking this.

 

[Multani]

Yep, in Pakistan Punjab jat population is 20%. Also in Sindh jats make 10-15% of population if i am not wrong.

i think the figure of 20% for jatts in Pakistani Punjab is about right, may be a bit less than that, but 20% is good enough

I heard before afghan war, most of Peshawaris spoke in Hindko. Also I think most peshawari hindkowans are awans. A lot of hindkowans from Abbottabad and Kohat are also awans. Shahrukh might be an awan.

The original Peshawaris were and are Hindkowans. But that does not mean there wasn't a minority of Pashto speakers in Peshawar, Its just that due to migration, Pashto speakers are now the majority in Peshawar,

Nowshera, Peshawar, Kohat are traditional Hindko lands

Its true, we are more familiar with punjabis. Punjab and KPK are very much linked and there is large flow of people between two provinces.

yes that's very true

Aren't Araaai's native to Punjaab? Majority who migrated to Pakistan were Araai's in 47.

from some Punjabi districts for sure, but not the majority, but a sizeable minority

Some Awans definitely have qutab shahi arabic origins, but majority I believe is local to pothohar region.



I was drawing you attention that not all pakistanis jatts are related to indian jaats of haryana, rajashtan and western UP. There are only few common clans. The majority of pakistani jatt clans are quite distinct and do not have any representation among "jaats" found in neighboring indian states.



Some historians are of the view that Arains are the oldest layer of rural farmers in pakistani punjab and other farmer groups (jatts, gujjars etc. ) arrived later in punjab from neighboring areas.



Ironically most of the jatt clans (jamot) in sindh (their original ancestral land) consider themselves as baloch.

Pakistani JaTTs have the best biradaris of all JaTTs such as the Sipra of Jhang, usually called the super race

 

[Multani]

Its true, we are more familiar with punjabis. Punjab and KPK are very much linked and there is large flow of people between two provinces.

Mughals in Punjab have deep link with Peshawar

Only in central punjab maybe-35%, which include districts Gujrat, Gujrawala, Kasur, Narowal, Sialkot, Lahore, Faisalabad, Chiniot, Nankana Sahib, Okara, Vehari, Sheikhu Pura, Hafizabad, Sahiwal maybe i missed some other district. Overall in Punjab 20%, or at best 25%.

Edit: Jats only seem majority because most of land is owned by them. Even British census prove this, overall in population they are not majority.

25% is too much. Is every 4th Punjabi in Pakistan a jatt. No way.

They are 20% at the best, and i would say less than that.

In Multan we have the oldest of the Jatt clans, such as the Saangi

 

[dawn_news]

Mughals in Punjab have deep link with Peshawar



25% is too much. Is every 4th Punjabi in Pakistan a jatt. No way.

They are 20% at the best, and i would say less than that.

30% in central punjab and overall 20% in Punjab.

 

[Multani]

30% in central punjab and overall 20% in Punjab.

i agree

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

i think the figure of 20% for jatts in Pakistani Punjab is about right, may be a bit less than that, but 20% is good enough



The original Peshawaris were and are Hindkowans. But that does not mean there wasn't a minority of Pashto speakers in Peshawar, Its just that due to migration, Pashto speakers are now the majority in Peshawar,

Nowshera, Peshawar, Kohat are traditional Hindko lands



yes that's very true



from some Punjabi districts for sure, but not the majority, but a sizeable minority




Pakistani JaTTs have the best biradaris of all JaTTs such as the Sipra of Jhang, usually called the super race

Pashtuns didnt bother to settle in cities. In mughal times, peshawer was a walled city, its inhabitants were mostly camp followers of mughal army from hindostan and punjab. During sikh period, a very large number of muslims from west punjab also settled in peshawer city along with sikhs. So significant portion of hindkowans of the city are actually settlers from punjab during mughal and sikh period. Pashtuns settled in peshawer in 10th century but preferred to stay in villages as they dislike for urban life. Demographics kept on changing. Dilazak pashtuns, who colonized peshawer during mehmud ghaznavi times, no longer exist , they got expelled by invading khalil and daudzai tribes who were part of yousafzai confederation.

 

[dawn_news]

Pashtuns didnt bother to settle in cities. In mughal times, peshawer was a walled city, its inhabitants were mostly camp followers of mughal army from hindostan and punjab. During sikh period, a very large number of muslims from west punjab also settled in peshawer city along with sikhs. So significant portion of hindkowans of the city are actually settlers from punjab during mughal and sikh period. Pashtuns settled in peshawer in 10th century but preferred to stay in villages as they dislike for urban life. Demographics kept on changing. Dilazak pashtuns, who colonized peshawer during mehmud ghaznavi times, no longer exist , they got expelled by invading khalil and daudzai tribes who were part of yousafzai confederation.

I remember you said KPK hindko muslims are not natives but came with Ranjeet army. Well you are 100% wrong, the fact is pashtuns has been making majority in these areas recently. The process acclerated after 47.

 

[Shahmir]

I remember you said KPK hindko muslims are not natives but came with Ranjeet army. Well you are 100% wrong, the fact is pashtuns has been making majority in these areas recently. The process acclerated after 47.

You are right the pashtunization is taking place in north west part of pakistani since many many centuries, the british linguist Robert Grierson actually identified a remanent dardic dialect right in the middle of Tirah valley in khyber agency by some particular clans of afridis, he found strong dardic language influences on ormuri barki language spoken in south waziristan. He was of the view that the original inhabitants of the pashto speaking parts of what is modern kpk and FATA were some kind of dardic language speakers like people of chitral and gilgit but gradual pashtunization of the tribes there made it pashto speaking area , he was of the view that pashtunization in those regions was still in progress with many dardic tribes in kohistan and Dir adopting pashtun language over their native dardic dialects in 20 th century. However Pak one is right about peshawar, its population was not indigenous but rather settlers in the times of different kingdoms.

 

[dawn_news]

You are right the pashtunization is taking place in north west part of pakistani since many many centuries, the british linguist Robert Grierson actually identified a remanent dardic dialect right in the middle of Tirah valley in khyber agency by some particular clans of afridis, he found strong dardic language influences on ormuri barki language spoken in south waziristan. He was of the view that the original inhabitants of the pashto speaking parts of what is modern kpk and FATA were some kind of dardic language speakers like people of chitral and gilgit but gradual pashtunization of the tribes there made it pashto speaking area , he was of the view that pashtunization in those regions was still in progress with many dardic tribes in kohistan and Dir shifting adopting pashtun language over their native dardic dialects in 20 th century. However Pak one is right about peshawar, its population was not indigenous but rather settlers in the times of different kingdoms.

Afridis.. interesting. Panini wrote about Afridis and Mohmands 2500 years ago. Back then these two groups for sure were indo-aryan/dardic origin who were assimilated in pashtun culture just like lohani sindhi hindus.

 

[Shahmir]

Afridis.. interesting. Panini wrote about Afridis and Mohmands 2500 years ago. Back then these two groups for sure were indo-aryan/dardic origin who were assimilated in pashtun culture just like lohani sindhi hindus.

Pashtun language and ethnicity actually ows to Abdali tribal confederation who were remanents of hepthalites, all other tribes are pashtunized since the fall of hephtalite kingdom.

 

[dawn_news]

Pashtun language and ethnicity actually ows to Abdali supertribe who were remanents of hepthalites, all other tribes are pashtunized since the fall of hephtalite kingdom.

Well this explain high ASI in them contrary to popular belief. Many indigenous/ancient indo-aryan tribes across the hindu kush assimilated in to pashtun culture.

 

[Shahmir]

Well this explain high ASI in them contrary to popular belief. Many indigenous/ancient indo-aryan tribes across the hindu kush assimilated in to pashtun culture.

Yes it is indeed the case. read this,

"The Pashtuns began as a union of largely East-Iranian tribes which became the initial ethnic stratum of the Pashtun ethnogenesis, dates from the middle of the first millennium CE and is connected with the dissolution of the Epthalite (White Huns) confederacy. [...] Of the contribution of the Epthalites (White Huns) to the ethnogenesis of the Pashtuns we find evidence in the ethnonym of the largest of the Pashtun tribe unions, the Abdali (Durrani after 1747) associated with the ethnic name of the Epthalites — Abdal. The Siah-posh, the Kafirs (Nuristanis) of the Hindu Kush, called all Pashtuns by a general name of Abdal still at the beginning of the 19th century."

Reference : Gankovsky, Yu. V., et al. A History of Afghanistan, Moscow: Progress Publishers, 1982, pg 382

 

[dawn_news]

Yes it is indeed the case. read this,

"The Pashtuns began as a union of largely East-Iranian tribes which became the initial ethnic stratum of the Pashtun ethnogenesis, dates from the middle of the first millennium CE and is connected with the dissolution of the Epthalite (White Huns) confederacy. [...] Of the contribution of the Epthalites (White Huns) to the ethnogenesis of the Pashtuns we find evidence in the ethnonym of the largest of the Pashtun tribe unions, the Abdali (Durrani after 1747) associated with the ethnic name of the Epthalites — Abdal. The Siah-posh, the Kafirs (Nuristanis) of the Hindu Kush, called all Pashtuns by a general name of Abdal still at the beginning of the 19th century."

Reference : Gankovsky, Yu. V., et al. A History of Afghanistan, Moscow: Progress Publishers, 1982, pg 382

Basically Durrani is super tribe, other super tribe among pashtun is Khilji. Interesting thing is that both these tribes make vast majority of Afghanistan pashtun population.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I remember you said KPK hindko muslims are not natives but came with Ranjeet army. Well you are 100% wrong, the fact is pashtuns has been making majority in these areas recently. The process acclerated after 47.

Why do you think hindkowans exist only in cities like peshawer city, kohat city and nowshera city?. And the entire rural population of these districts is pashtun?
Here what happened.
1-The original inhabitants of KPK were hindus, with same ethnic and linguistic composition as punjab. Basically KPK was part of punjab. Its northren portion was dardic though.
2- Mehmud ghaznavi destroyed the entire hindu population of KPK. The survivors fled to other side of indus. It was a move to create buffer zone between his domain and hindostan. Dilazak pashtuns, who were serving as soldiers in his army were given these lands ( malakand division, peshawer division, hazara division along with attock.
3- The southren desert-like dry areas of KPK didnt get populated for atleast three centuries, had presence of only few pastoral nomad jats according to bannu gazetteer. Then defeated tribes from afghanistan begin to settle in these undesirable lands in 14th and 15th centuries.
4- Pashtun tribes hired craftsmen, karigar from punjab side , tarkhan, lohar, mochi, kumhar, hajam etc. They were "kami" of your punjab but were required by pashtuns for their skills. According to 1901 and 1911 census, they are as many as 20 to 30% of pashto speakers in KPK.
5- Mughals had control over cities of KPK, basically peshawer city became island/colony of mughals and their indian subjects within hostile pashtun country. The city was walled and safe from rural pashtun population surrounding the city. Sikhs , being punjabis, also brought punjabis of all three religions to the city.
5- Hindki/hindko was hindi some time ago, coined by pashtuns for the hindi population, present day punjabis, who were mostly hindus at that time.

 

[Shahmir]

Afridis.. interesting. Panini wrote about Afridis and Mohmands 2500 years ago. Back then these two groups for sure were indo-aryan/dardic origin who were assimilated in pashtun culture just like lohani sindhi hindus.

An interesting read from the work of Grierson on Tirahi language can be found in this link ...JSTOR - Tirahi language