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When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?

For those like @Hassan Al-Somal claim that they have no opinion whether the Holocaust occured, while at the same time show extremism hatred against Jews.

When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?



Contrary to popular belief this has nothing to do with Nazi records. There is this “half-myth” that floats around that the Nazis were great record keepers and thanks to these records we can accurately identify the number of Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust. This is inaccurate.

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To be clear the Nazis were great record keepers when they wanted to be. When it came to government administration, military accounting, and economic output the Nazis kept fantastic records. Moreover, many Nazi Generals survived the war and wrote extensively about their experiences before and during the war.

When it comes to the Holocaust we do have source documents that prove a lot and these documents are beyond valuable. They are exceedingly rare though and there isn’t a master list or anything like that. There is a good reason for this though.

As WW2 got going Hitler personally ordered the extermination of disabled persons in the infamous “Aktion T4”. This included a signed order from Hitler to identify, round up, and exterminate all disabled persons. There was an immediate response from the German people and the international community. So Hitler publically backtraced and canceled the order while continuing the extermination in secret. Protesting families were told that their loved ones were being transported to hospitals when really they were killed in the very vans that were supposed to take them there (the Nazis used gas vans as well as gas chambers).

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Hitler was thus never going to sign an order to kill all the Jews nor would anyone else. The entire SS high command was very hush-hush about the whole thing. They used code words, destroyed documents, bug up mass graves to burn the bodies, and very secretly went about their evil work.

There was never a list of all the Jews the Nazis killed. There were not even lists for individual concentration camps. In rare instances, we have records that show how many death certificates were sent out by the Nazis or how many inmates in a camp had died but these records are incomplete. At Auschwitz for instance there is a book that records some 70,000 who had died in the camp but this list excludes the 900,000 who were killed in the gas chambers upon arrival and the other 120,000 that died in the death marches or from various acts of brutality.


So where do we get “6 million” from and when did we identify that number?

So to answer the question the first estimate of “6 million” came about in 1945. A top SS official named Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl stated under oath that Adolf Eichmann had reported 6 million Jews killed. This was the first estimate we really had and it was based just upon a single confession.

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Past that we have to turn to data to find the answer. Prior to WW2 various nations and groups collected census data as we do today. A few examples include

  1. The Jewish Almanac in 1938
  2. The German Minority Census of 1939
  3. The Polish census of 1939
  4. Census data from the USSR from 1933–1940
Thanks to this data we have some idea of how many Jewish were alive in 1939 both globally and in Europe. Roughly speaking there were about 9 to 9.5 million Jewish in Europe and 15.5 to 15.8 million globally.

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We then know that by the time the war ended there were only about 3.5 million Jews left in Europe and somewhere around 9 million left globally.


So we have a disparity here of about 6 million. The question is how many of these people died in the Holocaust and how many died from other causes? You have to factor in death rates, birth rates, and the effect WW2 had on those statistics.

This is why figures vary because it depends on how you factor in death rates, birth rates, and what census data you use. Some historians peg the number at 5.2 million others say it could be as high as 6.2 million. Sadly we won’t ever know.

When it comes to totaling up how many were killed at the various camps we are also having to infer a bit.

Take Treblinka, an extermination camp I studied extensively. Thanks to a report from Chief SS Statistician Richard Korherr and another Telegram from top SS Offical Herman Hofle we know 713,000 Jews had perished at Treblinka by the end of 1942. The two documents had identical statistics showing that there was data being collected and kept ultra-classified. This data was related to “Operation Reinhard” which was the operation of the extermination camps and the liquidation of many Ghettos in Eastern Europe.

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The problem is that Treblinka operated into 1943 too and no records exist from this year. This is where train station controller Franciszek Ząbecki comes into the picture. This guy ran a train station right by Treblinka and noticed that trains arrived full of Jews and departed empty. He figured out what was going on, joined the Polish Resistance, and started painstakingly recording every train arrival for posterity. He also smuggled out many “way bills” that show how many were on each train. Thanks to him we can estimate how many trains arrived in 1942 and 1943. We can then do some basic math to find out how many Jews on average were on each train and come to a total estimate of 800,000ish.

Why “ish”? Well because we cannot verify exactly how many people were on each train. In 1943 Treblinka slowed considerably and while we have some “way-bills” that confirm numbers it’s hard to take these at face value. So the best estimate is 850,000 give or take. We are 100% more than 712,000 were killed there but we cannot give an exact number. Franciszek Ząbecki for his part did his own calculations based on what he saw and recorded and estimated the total at over 1 million- and he could be right.

So obviously it’s all rather complex and it took lots of serious study and research to accurately identify the number of victims. However, the numbers we do have are 100% accurate and based on mountains of evidence.

  • We have confession from top SS officials, top Nazi officials, camp commandants, camp guards, Gestapo members, Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing squad) members, and even just low ranking SS guys
  • We have eye witness testimony from hundreds of thousands of people. Many were Sonderkommandos, which were Jews forced to work in the gas chambers. Others are Polish, Soviet, Greek, German, French, and Romani camp survivors. Some witnesses were even people who managed to escape the death camps during the revolts there.
  • Census data is beyond reproach considering we have multiple sources that are all relatively close in their estimates. There is variance but we are talking about a few percentage points. Both the Nazis and Jews showed there were 9 million Jews in Europe and after the war every census ever done (and there have been hundreds) all showed that the global Jewish population shrank around 6 million
  • We have some scattered documents that fill in the blanks. For instance the mobile killing squads neatly recorded every single massacre and sent these reports into Berlin for SS leaders to see. We have hundreds of these reports.
So the crux of the estimates is the census data. That gives us a ballpark. To back up the census data we have a few confessions but very little here because if there was a “master list” for all the Jews killed, it was destroyed. So with a ball park number in mind we turn to various witnesses, confessions, and a few crucial source documents to fill in the blanks.

Based on my studies here is where the poor souls who were murdered in the Holocaust died. These are just my estimates based on my studies and certainly this is not the end all be all of estimates- but it paints a picture.

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and why not? Jews were stealing Palestine land way before Holocaust and under British mandate started stealing so off course Palestinians will look for alliance

and by the way Jews were also involved in the Holocaust the guards at Auschwitz were Jewish and so were the people doing the killing

The Waffen-SS also had high ranking Jews serving

Nazi also had a Jewish regiment just read this book

View attachment 907987
Auschwitz guards were Jewish as were those doing the killing? Do you mean the Kapos? Quite a misrepresentation. As for those doing the killing who do you mean?

Have you read the book? What does are you claiming it argues?
 
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Yes, the Nazis murdered 6 million Jews and were Europeans.

Then Europeans think they are so civilized and all that bullshit.

And Now Russia is bombing the hell out of Ukraine.
And Genghis Khan,Mao murdered even more. Does that mean Asians are not civilized and all that bullshit?

Maybe you shouldn't put all countries and ethnicities in the same basket.

Because if Mongols were brutal barbarians who slaughtered countless people,does that mean that Pakistanis are also the same,just because they are Asians too? See how flawed your logic is?
 
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65 million ??

Why are Europeans responsible for the poor immune systems of the native Americans ?



Britain arrived on the shores of India in 1600. The population of USA/Canada/Australia was 4 million in 1600.

In 1945 USA was prominent industrial power

because your disgusting and dont wash and also eat bacon, Europeans would never wash and carried all sorts of infected diseases
 
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Jews entered the land Palestine in the times of King Saul (long long after Jacob, Joseph and Moses - let alone Abraham).
After the Exodus from the Egypt and the desert,they had already reached the East Bank of the Jordan. Before Saul.

Remember the siege of Jericho?

because your disgusting and dont wash and also eat bacon, Europeans would never wash and carried all sorts of infected diseases
Ah bacon is the problem?
 
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Which just shows that you have no sense of proportion.

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The treaty when the invading criminal occupied Iran capital and kidnapped Iran king and........
If it's treaty yes and England and ussr did the killing but their weapon of choice was not xyclone it was artificially killing people of hunger

Iran is supporting a war which is much worse than the British/Soviet invasion of Iran. According to Your line of reasoning, Iran and Hitler are as bad. They both killed/are killing/helping killing innocent people.
As far as I'm aware the last date you guys managed to find on the drones was the month the war started. So there is nothing farther from the truth than your post, if anything it shows after start of war Iran stopped delivering any drone.

Does that mean that you personally are as bad as Hitler?
According to Your logic, you are, since you do not think that numbers play a role.
It show you are personally as bad as Goebbels and your mission is to distort the truth just like him.
is of course two lies, which you cannot substantiate with facts.
It is a fact that people died in famines.
It is a fact that there was a shortage of food.
And it's fact the famine was artificial and the result of Britain and ussr disturbing the distribution of foods and stealing the grains for themselves
 
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The bold part -- this is not true at all, absolutely wrong.

You should get your historical facts right.

Abraham (Peace be upon him - PBUH) had two sons, Ishaq and Ismael.
There was no evidence of Jews or Israelites at that time.

Jacob (Yaqoob) was the son of Ishaq (son of Abraham).
Jacob's title was Israel (the one closer to God).
The word Jew comes from the first son of Jacob, whose name was Yahuda (in Arabic, the name for Jews is Yahood -- and not Jews)

Jews entered the land Palestine in the times of King Saul (long long after Jacob, Joseph and Moses - let alone Abraham).

@Beny Karachun - can you confirm the above Beny?
From: https://www.britannica.com/place/Canaan-historical-region-Middle-East


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Which more or less confirms the Bible Story. Abraham and family enter Caanan 2-3000B.C. They leave for Egypt at the time of Joseph and return with Moses.
The Philistine invaders (Sea People?) arrive later by sea from the Western Mediterranean. The Israelis fight the Philistines under Saul.
 
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An Indian politician has said Winston Churchill is no better than Adolf Hitler and the two leaders have equivalent amounts of “blood” on their hands.

Dr Shashi Tharoor, whose new book Inglorious Empire chronicles the atrocities of the British Empire, said the former British Prime Minister should be remembered alongside the most prominent dictators of the twentieth century.

Dr Tharoor, a former Under-Secretary General of the UN, said the blame for the Bengal Famine rested with Churchill. In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal.

“This [Churchill] is the man who the British insist on hailing as some apostle of freedom and democracy," the author told UK Asian at a launch for his book. "When to my mind he is really one of the more evil rulers of the 20th century only fit to stand in company of the likes of Hitler, Mao and Stalin".

Churchill has as much blood on his hands as Hitler does,” the Indian MP said. “Particularly the decisions that he personally signed off during the Bengal Famine when 4.3 million people died because of the decisions he took or endorsed."

"Not only did the British pursue its own policy of not helping the victims of this famine which was created by their policies. Churchill persisted in exporting grain to Europe, not to feed actual ‘Sturdy Tommies’, to use his phrase, but add to the buffer stocks that were being piled up in the event of a future invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia”.

Ships laden with wheat were coming in from Australia docking in Calcutta and were instructed by Churchill not to disembark their cargo but sail on to Europe,” he added. “And when conscience-stricken British officials wrote to the Prime Minister in London pointing out that his policies were causing needless loss of life all he could do was write peevishly in the margin of the report, ‘Why hasn’t Gandhi died yet?'"

Talking about the Bengal famine in 1943, the Prime Minister who led Britain to victory in World War Two, said: “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”

Dr Tharoor, a former Indian government minister, rose to further prominence after his impassioned speech at the Oxford Union in July of 2015 went viral. In the address, he discussed the economic toll British rule took on India.

He said: "India's share of the world economy when Britain arrived on it shores was 23 per cent. By the time the British left it was down to below four per cent. Why? Simply because India had been governed for the benefit of Britain. Britain's rise for 200 years was financed by its depredations in India."

"In fact, Britain's industrial revolution was actually premised upon the de-industrialisation of India."

Dr Tharoor recently gained headlines for suggesting Britons suffer "historical amnesia” over the atrocities and plunder committed by the empire.

Which is an oversimplification of a very complex issue.
Possibly in order to sell books.

The treaty when the invading criminal occupied Iran capital and kidnapped Iran king and........
If it's treaty yes and England and ussr did the killing but their weapon of choice was not xyclone it was artificially killing people of hunger
It is yet to be proved that Britain and Russia tried to get Iranians killed.
As far as I'm aware the last date you guys managed to find on the drones was the month the war started. So there is nothing farther from the truth than your post, if anything it shows after start of war Iran stopped delivering any drone.

1672424604931.png

It show you are personally as bad as Goebbels and your mission is to distort the truth just like him.
The Reuters article shows who is emulating Goebbels.
And it's fact the famine was artificial and the result of Britain and ussr disturbing the distribution of foods and stealing the grains for themselves
You are welcome to show documents which proves that Britain had a goal to kill off Iranians Instead of simply proritizing other goals which were more important.
You probably should provide sources that show that there were any significant famine at all.

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From: https://www.britannica.com/place/Canaan-historical-region-Middle-East


View attachment 908518

View attachment 908519

Which more or less confirms the Bible Story. Abraham and family enter Caanan 2-3000B.C. They leave for Egypt at the time of Joseph and return with Moses.
The Philistine invaders (Sea People?) arrive later by sea from the Western Mediterranean. The Israelis fight the Philistines under Saul.

You have just confirmed what I have been saying. Please look at the later part of your post.
It confirms that Israelites were not the original people of this land. They over took the land of Philistine people.

Why Benny will confirm??? He is another zio on this forum spreading false history and misinformation.
Well ! .... I am prepared to give @Beny Karachun the respect that he will not tell a lie about his history and religion.

He has not replied so far ;)

May be he has gone to fight Palestinian children sitting in armoured vehicle.
 
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6 millions or 1 million, it must not repeat never again.

So it's not so important the exact number.

Except by the people which narrative is distract people talking about that.
Hi,

Do you have the ballz to talk about 2.5 million afghans killed by the US occupation---3 million plus Iraqis killed by US invasion / occupation---2.5 million syrians killed---close to a million Libyans killed---close to 100 million muslims made homeless by US invasions---.

As for Jews killed by gas and then incinerated---technically it was not possible to have those many jews killed by gas and then burnt in ovens---.

One imagines that they were industrial grade mega size fire pits / oven---where 100's of dead bodies be thrown in a one time and turned to ash---but as a mater of fact such was not the case----.

An average oven could take one body at a time---took hours to burn it---then the bones need to be taken out and then smashed by a hammers to turn to powder---.

But before that---dead people to be picked up from the supposed rooms where they were gassed---took to the room with the ovens---.

The american never were able to prove that---. No massive number of gas protection dresses at locations that may have been worn by the guards for self protection when they were moving dead bodies---. No large number of trollies found to move the dead from the gas chamber to the oven chamber---.

So many inconsistencies here---. There is no doubt that the atrocities did occur on a high scale---but not on the stage that has been claimed---.

Most jews would have died due to starvation---as they were the labor force---and under extreme food shortage in germany during war---became the biggest victims of food scarcity---.
 
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Hi,

Do you have the ballz to talk about 2.5 million afghans killed by the US occupation---3 million plus Iraqis killed by US invasion / occupation---2.5 million syrians killed---close to a million Libyans killed---close to 100 million muslims made homeless by US invasions---.

As for Jews killed by gas and then incinerated---technically it was not possible to have those many jews killed by gas and then burnt in ovens---.

One imagines that they were industrial grade mega size fire pits / oven---where 100's of dead bodies be thrown in a one time and turned to ash---but as a mater of fact such was not the case----.

An average oven could take one body at a time---took hours to burn it---then the bones need to be taken out and then smashed by a hammers to turn to powder---.

But before that---dead people to be picked up from the supposed rooms where they were gassed---took to the room with the ovens---.

The american never were able to prove that---. No massive number of gas protection dresses at locations that may have been worn by the guards for self protection when they were moving dead bodies---. No large number of trollies found to move the dead from the gas chamber to the oven chamber---.

So many inconsistencies here---. There is no doubt that the atrocities did occur on a high scale---but not on the stage that has been claimed---.

Most jews would have died due to starvation---as they were the labor force---and under extreme food shortage in germany during war---became the biggest victims of food scarcity---.
No one made the argument 6 million Jews got incinerated. 6 Jews million were murdered in general.

Some by bullets, some by gas, some by starvation, some by exhaustion, some by disease.

Many indeed were killed of starvation, they were put concentration camps with no food or medicine, is that not a way to murder them?
 
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