Whats PAF thinking ?

[messiach]

1- block3 work is decisively in gears. An update planned for block2 (i do'nt have details).
2- j-31 : opinions are divided on j-31. Consensus is not the jet but on the development of fab-tech backbone.

I want to ask whats PAF thinking ? how much time they will take to decide to go for another platform like 4 or 4.5 Gen aircrafts ? how much time PAF will take to watch the moves of IAF ? you just cant sit Idle.
?

 

[MastanKhan]

2- j-31 : opinions are divided on j-31. Consensus is not the jet but on the development of fab-tech backbone.

Hi,

When you keep waiting for the best of the best---you neither get the best---nor do you get the second best---.

 

[NKVD]

I smell jealousy in your post

Lol what jealousy did it related anything other from facts

Fact is your jf-17 even with 80 aircraft's lacks decent HMDS and HOBS

 

[royalharris]

Turkey is also progressing in terms of technology. Some of the weapons and tech they have to offer is truely out of the box and very very advanced. I think that in future Turks will become a very major player in defence vendors so we could benefit from Turks in that respect as well. Turkey has western subsystems which will make the aicraft more technologically advanced. I just feel that TFX would have more brains behind it. Whereas, the chinese plane J-31 seems to be a hurried project. It does not seem very thought out.

I don't know why some parkistan member like defaming our military equipment
To be hones,I have no interest to know the reason, no interest to argue with you,especially when you are pakistan, don't want to hurt your people's feelings,most of the Chinese have very good feelings with parkistan

Remember all our new weapons are only prepared for our special friends on the other side of Pacific Ocean, now they are ahead of us, but the gap is narrower and narrower

Don't mention us others
You can buy your military equipment from whatever's country you want
But pls don't defame a friends who always open the door for you

 

[singlefighter]

Lol what jealousy did it related anything other from facts

Fact is your jf-17 even with 80 aircraft's lacks decent HMDS and HOBS

First of all raise the numbers of "Mahan teja" equal to JFT when you will reach in 50 we must surpass the 150 figure. And about HDMS , AESA,IRST ,new ECM and EW suit PAF must have a plan,just wait for block 3.and previous two blocks most probably upgraded to block 3 and then in 2022 we will be on design of block 4 or might be a new aircraft design for 5 th gen and you will be struggling with first 50 A/C of teja to keep them alive.

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

I want to add something else---.

The Paf has been the most un-focussed direction less organization that I have ever seen. It is absolutely pathetic to the level of disgusting when it comes to current planning---future planning and procurement---fall back planning and options.

Now when you see the results of this organization---it looks like this company is sawing off the trunk that it is sitting on---or the nation is sitting on---.

If I would have asked my enemy to procure something for me---they would have done a better job---.

And there will be those who will say nay to what I am stating---but that is the truth---.

Paf---needs to change its game plan----it needs to focus on one and only one 5th gen future aircraft---and that is the J31---for now---. The current aircraft being the BLK 3 JF 17 and another 4.5 gen aircraft---.

Too many option create problems---make you become un-decisive---vested / bribed interests come into the picture---like TFX project would bribe someone in the Paf to hold onto the J31 and wait for the TFX and things like that---.

Our problem has been a now problem---and we have been deceived by the pak air force for 30 years now---.

Sir I enjoy crispy and blunt statements from u, but with empty pocket u can get shit only. Bribes and kick backs are always involved in most of defense related transactions, whether money spent in the name of lobbying or gifts. Corrupt people are also present in West but they have legalized every thing. As in USA their is no hidden fact that many countries hire different firms for lobbying and spent money during Presidential and senate elections.

However I beg to differ from u on point that leadership of PAF has been involved in wrong deeds as all the transactions/deals done after approval from PM, then ministry of defense and ministry of finance. PAF is not and independent institution. As per news the current chief has met PM and Govt high ranking officials for procurement of at least one new platform but so far not proved to be fruitful, so PAF always goes for second option and that is to maximize the usefulness of resources in hand. I am with u on opinion that J31 should be ordered at once but if it that doesn't happen then PAF should at least arm the new JF17 block 3 with maximum possible best gadgets i.e HMDS, HOBS WVR,IRST and AESA along with capable ECM/ESM suit may be Italian one or improved one from Indra Spain.

 

[NKVD]

First of all raise the numbers of "Mahan teja" equal to JFT when you will reach in 50 we must surpass the 150 figure. And about HDMS , AESA,IRST ,new ECM and EW suit PAF must have a plan,just wait for block 3.and previous two blocks most probably upgraded to block 3 and then in 2022 we will be on design of block 4 or might be a new aircraft design for 5 th gen and you will be struggling with first 50 A/C of teja to keep them alive.

Lol don't tell about future

Tell me present

Even with latest block-2 it lacks decent HMDS and 3 gen HOBs missile

Wake me up when block three comes we will compare it LCAmk1A

 

[GURU DUTT]

First of all raise the numbers of "Mahan teja" equal to JFT when you will reach in 50 we must surpass the 150 figure. And about HDMS , AESA,IRST ,new ECM and EW suit PAF must have a plan,just wait for block 3.and previous two blocks most probably upgraded to block 3 and then in 2022 we will be on design of block 4 or might be a new aircraft design for 5 th gen and you will be struggling with first 50 A/C of teja to keep them alive.

so does your super duper joint fighter has 4 channel digital(like LCA MK1) fly by wire (which to my knowledge your joint fighter has three channel analog fly by wire) and does not have either OBOS or IFR probe or HMDS or HOBS missile firrin capabilty or a laser designation pod with laser guided bombs firring capability all of which it wants to have in its Blk 2 and Blk 3 variant but right now does not have but LVA MK1 was been intigrated and tested and retested in all weather and day and night conditions with it and even showed these cpalities in a baharein air show and many indian air shows now beat that wise guy

 

[Blue Marlin]

i dont see what the hoooo haa is all about.
the only c0ck up i have seen is not going for the mk2 as an extension to the rose program.
not even a strike fighter is required as the mmk2 would have had a decent load and range.

an interm solution would have helped but its a bit late for that.

only the jf-17-blk3 and the j-31 and the tfx are the next best options in that order. pakistan can get j-31 by the time india gets the lca mk2 (2025) easily, and the txf a decade later.

people are forgetting pakistan is a third world country with a limited budget not the who usa can print money at will

 

[GURU DUTT]

i dont see what the hoooo haa is all about.
the only c0ck up i have seen is not going for the mk2 as an extension to the rose program.
not even a strike fighter is required as the mmk2 would have had a decent load and range.

an interm solution would have helped but its a bit late for that.

only the jf-17-blk3 and the j-31 and the tfx are the next best options in that order. pakistan can get j-31 by the time india gets the lca mk2 (2025) easily, and the txf a decade later.

people are forgetting pakistan is a third world country with a limited budget not the who usa can print money at will

but by 2025 india will also be havng at least a full squad of FGFA and all of rafales and maybe even a couple of squads of F16 Blk70s and a few squads of MLUd super sukhoies what you gonna do about them

 

[singlefighter]

so does your super duper joint fighter has 4 channel digital(like LCA MK1) fly by wire (which to my knowledge your joint fighter has three channel analog fly by wire) and does not have either OBOS or IFR probe or HMDS or HOBS missile firrin capabilty or a laser designation pod with laser guided bombs firring capability all of which it wants to have in its Blk 2 and Blk 3 variant but right now does not have but LVA MK1 was been intigrated and tested and retested in all weather and day and night conditions with it and even showed these cpalities in a baharein air show and many indian air shows now beat that wise guy

If your mahan teja is so capable then your country is so desperate for a new single engine aircraft like F16 or saab gripen? Now don't tell both are in different category and blah blah.in reality teja is a flop idea and it's dalit of indian airforce.no one like to touch it even after more than 30 years long development process still lacking so many areas.on other hand JFT is a successful project only lack some areas which will be counter in next stage with air cooled AESA radar,IRST and new EW suits, and JFT b model has digital fly by wire.and with WS 13E engine it will be better thrust to weight ratio and more range with better load management. And the dalit of iaf has only 4or 5 aircrafts in 35 years...what a progress.[emoji14]

 

[Blue Marlin]

but by 2025 india will also be havng at least a full squad of FGFA and all of rafales and maybe even a couple of squads of F16 Blk70s and a few squads of MLUd super sukhoies what you gonna do about them

the fgfa will be inducted post 2025. the bast t-50 is not even in lrip phase yet. so a twin seat fgfa is out of the question for at least a decade. the t-50 of the shelf is a better option with local production. note these fighters will cost as much as a rafale and the desired numbers has already been nearly cut in half to about 120~ so it must be justified to locally produce them.

as for the f16 talks are just starting and tata has no facility to build them and final negoation will take 2 years at least. just look at the rafale and how long it took. and local production would take 3 years ish which in a perfect would is 5 years. now lets not forget testing and qualifying which is about a year and lrip for of the line client products would add to that andinduction would take another year at least. so the 2 years grand totaling to 7 years
which takes us to 2024. 2024 is before 2025 so credit where it due your right in part of the f16

but note when has anything ever gone to plan? and the f16 is not even selected and tata has not even got a work force capable of building the f16 let alone a factory with a runway nearby. just be realistic here pal. if india wants they can get the t-50 of the shelf before 2025 no problem, but that would eat in to the desired local amount increasing the price per unit.

 

[GURU DUTT]

If your mahan teja is so capable then your country is so desperate for a new single engine aircraft like F16 or saab gripen? Now don't tell both are in different category and blah blah.in reality teja is a flop idea and it's dalit of indian airforce.no one like to touch it even after more than 30 years long development process still lacking so many areas.on other hand JFT is a successful project only lack some areas which will be counter in next stage with air cooled AESA radar,IRST and new EW suits, and JFT b model has digital fly by wire.and with WS 13E engine it will be better thrust to weight ratio and more range with better load management. And the dalit of iaf has only 4or 5 aircrafts in 35 years...what a progress.[emoji14]

no you dint get it sirji Tejas is just to replace Mig21 for point defnce role and internal air policing and home land security roles with SEAD&DEAD as secondarry roles

but Rafale & F16s and jaguars or M2Ks are for actual fighting and attack and counter attack jobs and engaging with the enemy on enemy homeleand hope that makes it clear cause tejas has a limited combat radius due to a very compact and small airframe which helps in very small RSC and great agiity and has decent combat radius for homeland secrity but not good enough for attack role now you know why we need F16s and rafales

waise bhee MKis and rafales are for north eastern sector while F16s and M2Ks and mig 29s and jaguars will do duty on western sector

the fgfa will be inducted post 2025. the bast t-50 is not even in lrip phase yet. so a twin seat fgfa is out of the question for at least a decade. the t-50 of the shelf is a better option with local production. note these fighters will cost as much as a rafale and the desired numbers has already been nearly cut in half to about 120~ so it must be justified to locally produce them.

as for the f16 talks are just starting and tata has no facility to build them and final negoation will take 2 years at least. just look at the rafale and how long it took. and local production would take 3 years ish which in a perfect would is 5 years. now lets not forget testing and qualifying which is about a year and lrip for of the line client products would add to that andinduction would take another year at least. so the 2 years grand totaling to 7 years
which takes us to 2024. 2024 is before 2025 so credit where it due your right in part of the f16

but note when has anything ever gone to plan? and the f16 is not even selected and tata has not even got a work force capable of building the f16 let alone a factory with a runway nearby. just be realistic here pal. if india wants they can get the t-50 of the shelf before 2025 no problem, but that would eat in to the desired local amount increasing the price per unit.

your very wrong FGFA production run will start in 2018 late summer just weight and watch for yourself secondly we are in despartae need of numbers filling and already have said it many times that israelies are agociationg to MLU EX ISAF & EX USAF Blk 40 F16 (some 5 squads of 18 birds) to Blk 70 or version " V " level what TAIWAN AIR FORCE just got with slightly better radar and combined avionicks and EW+ECM+jammer suits and a nexy gen F35 inspired JHMCS & HOBS package and a next gen turbofan and landing gear with new FBW & digital controls

now TATA was in talks for the the contract for almost two years so most of the things are already worked out and MOD & DOD USA were negociating the nitty gritties for quite some time with isralies in between ald also we had tested F16s quite rigrouly during MRCA and working on them for long with israelies and singporeans

now costs will come down once production starts and spares wont be such a big issue with USA givng the garuntee more so we are taking a two pronged approache (sorry for spelling mistakes )
rest 7 to 9 squads of 18 birds each will be made in india by TATA group full TOT and assembally line tranferr from LM

as for T50 we have already renagocated the entire deal with russians since NaMo came to power and he and his cabinet does not work like the speed of UPA he works diffrently and so does russians and americans respond to him on a very diffrent wavelength

rest you speculate yourself

 

[Blue Marlin]

your very wrong FGFA production run will start in 2018 late summer just weight and watch for yourself secondly we are in despartae need of numbers filling and already have said it many times that israelies are agociationg to MLU EX ISAF & EX USAF Blk 40 F16 (some 5 squads of 18 birds) to Blk 70 or version " V " level what TAIWAN AIR FORCE just got with slightly better radar and combined avionicks and EW+ECM+jammer suits and a nexy gen F35 inspired JHMCS & HOBS package and a next gen turbofan and landing gear with new FBW & digital controls

now TATA was in talks for the the contract for almost two years so most of the things are already worked out and MOD & DOD USA were negociating the nitty gritties for quite some time with isralies in between ald also we had tested F16s quite rigrouly during MRCA and working on them for long with israelies and singporeans

now costs will come down once production starts and spares wont be such a big issue with USA givng the garuntee more so we are taking a two pronged approache (sorry for spelling mistakes )
rest 7 to 9 squads of 18 birds each will be made in india by TATA group full TOT and assembally line tranferr from LM

as for T50 we have already renagocated the entire deal with russians since NaMo came to power and he and his cabinet does not work like the speed of UPA he works diffrently and so does russians and americans respond to him on a very diffrent wavelength

rest you speculate yourself

the base t-50 will start production late 2018 no the fgfa. why bring in israel?
the cost of the f16 is down bu the base blk70 is not even developed, its just a poster and expect a $80+ million price tag.
as for the f16 deal the idea is to make the blk70 in india entirely only critical parts will be made in usa and imported.

as for the fgfa be renegotiated good luck.

 

[CriticalThought]

I don't know why some parkistan member like defaming our military equipment
To be hones,I have no interest to know the reason, no interest to argue with you,especially when you are pakistan, don't want to hurt your people's feelings,most of the Chinese have very good feelings with parkistan

Remember all our new weapons are only prepared for our special friends on the other side of Pacific Ocean, now they are ahead of us, but the gap is narrower and narrower

Don't mention us others
You can buy your military equipment from whatever's country you want
But pls don't defame a friends who always open the door for you

The China Pakistan partnership creates solutions to problems as they arise. JF-17 has been made grounds up to counter SU-30 with the current Chinese technology on the plane. Once Rafale comes to the sub-continent, the threat will be studied, and solutions found to neutralize it, again with Chinese technology. The problem around here is, people think merely buying planes will neutralize the threat. Without knowing the specific upgrades and options selected by the Indians for their Rafales, we simply cannot say we have an effective counter. Hence, I provided three options - get it from France, get it from 3rd party, or make indigenously. Chinese help is implicit in indigenous solution.

Finally, it is possible that some parts of the Rafale threat may be considered in the on going work for Block 3.