What should be Muslim world reaction to new American announcement about Beit ul muqaddas/jerusalem ?

[Mage]

A federal state (EU-like state or even based on the US model) would not be a bad thing

Only if you can stop fighting among yourselves.

 

[fitpOsitive]

There is no world like "muslim world", first of all.
Secondly, when someone abducts someone else's child, he doesn't call conferences on that.
Thirdly, when India invaded Pakistan in 1965, Pakistan responded, with full power.
Fourthly, Israelis(actually their international care takers) well planned this event. They wrapped the hands of muslim countries behind their backs, first. Then they threw Mayanmar conflict to asses the dent, may be inflicted by muslims around the globe in case of any such international conflict. Once, they become satisfied with the level of the weakness of muslims, they did that.
Next comes the demolition of Al-Aqsa Masjid(which is also a ready case).

 

[Mage]

@Mage

If you genuinely wish for the betterment of the people, you can suggest so in a respectful and non-hostile manner. Why is that hard for you? I wish the best for the people of your country. If you are just ranting due to some personal frustrations you have(which might not even have anything to do with politics), then I don't know how you expect to be taken seriously?

Well you are right. I'm sorry.
I'm just frustrated with the developments in ME. Whenever I see any news on ME it is almost always a negative news. When I try to analyze things from my perspective I find things so illogical that it's frustrating. Trust me, I have talked with some Arabs about these issues. And they blame everyone else other than themselves. Btw, I was criticizing Arab leaders and sometimes Muslims in general.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Yeah...cling to your historical pride. What else do you have today?

Arab population is 6 time of Iranian population. Yet the number of Uni degrees is only two times. And you feel proud of that?

At least they have done some reverse engineering. What have Arabs done? Other than allowing US military in their soil and fighting among themselves?

Talk about Arab accomplishments now. Iraq-Iran war, Iraq-Kuwait war, war on Iraq, Numerous Arab-Israel wars, Arab-Yemen war, F*ck up in Libya.

20+ countries yet each of them are impotent and fighting among themselves. Great achievement.

So?

Instead of doing anything online, do something in the real world. Maybe start with stopping wars in Yemen or Syria?

1000 times more than you have to begin with. KSA alone for that matter.

Where should I begin?

Economy, military, living standards, infrastructure, law and order, much lower crime levels, much higher literacy rate, much better educational level, much better ranked universities, much more land, much more resources, much more money, much more potential etc. and personal opinions such as better food, music, poetry, art, architecture, women etc.

Over 50% of all the 500 million Arabs are below 25. What I wrote is a personal estimation. I am sure that the real number is much larger. I already told you that KSA alone (25 million people) is doing better than 80 million Iran with similar resources.

Well, go take a look at the "Made in KSA" thread for starters.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/made-in-ksa.475488/

KSA or most Arab states do not have the need to reverse engineer ancient USSR technology delivered by North Korea and Ukraine. We can actually buy the technology something that Iran wishes to (did you read about them ordering a record number of Airbus's the second the sanctions were lifted or there was talk of this being lifted?). As I told you Iran learned missile technology from Arabs themselves. Read about Syrians teaching this to Iran post-Shah removal. You can even find some Iranians talking about it openly here although it might be painful for them to admit.

LOL. The Iraq-Iran war was an Iraqi victory despite Iraq being 3 times smaller and having a 2.5 times smaller population. Vastly many more Iranians died than Iraqis and much more of Iran was destroyed than otherwise. How is that an "Arab defeat". Maybe in your biased worldview.

Iraq-Kuwait war? Are you drunk? That's an internal Arab war.

Yes, blame Arabs (in this case one Arab country alone - Iraq) for losing a war against an undisputed world power (USA) and their coalition. Is this some joke or what? Yet despite that the Iraqi resistance did 3 times the harm in less than 10 years than the Afghan resistance has done against the same US in Afghanistan after 16 + years of fighting. Ask most US soldiers who have served in both Iraq and Afghanistan and tell them where they experienced the most harsh battles and where most of their colleagues died or were injured. The answer will be Iraq and the enemies will be Arabs.

Israel-Arab (once again only a minority of Arab countries were involved and you are not familiar with the dynamics during those wars, the treason, distrust etc.) or the fact that those Arabs states essentially fought against the West (US) with USSR weapons against Western technology. That would always have been a loss. Not to say that Israel fought for their very survival from home. Always a HUGE advantage. Those wars are outdated as well. The last war occurred almost 50 years ago.

Libya. Once again, this war was a civil war between Libyans were outside powers (US, UK, France, Qatar etc.) and others took the side of the Libyan rebels who last time I saw were/are Arabs. Nothing to do with a war between Arabs and foreigners.

Same story with Yemen which you are probably all unfamiliar with.

Yes, all 20 + Arab countries are fighting each other while the reality is that 4 countries suffer from their first civil wars in history (Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen - expect for Yemen that has had a civil war before). So according to your logic, every Arab is fighting against themselves. Great Bangladeshi logic.

So? Well, it proves your nonsense wrong. You praise Iran for achievements that are nowhere to be seen without realizing hat Iranian Arabs have played an important role in that (according to you so-called "success").

How about you deal with Rohingyas who are slaughtered on a scale that has never been seen in Palestine rather than barking against Arabs and showcasing your ignorance?

Did an Arab in Sweden do you any harm or did an Arab women refuse your advances? What is it?

 

[Mirzah]

I am living among them peacefully. Contributing my bit to our nation and society.

I am not hurling rockets at their houses ....

Cheers, Doc

It’s not your nation or your society as you admit India is for Hindus your land house job belongs to Hindus. Occupying people against their will, land grabbing building settlements, apartheid laws and policies, ethinic cleansing and mass murdering Palestinians are being done by peaceful Israelis

 

[Mage]

If you genuinely wish for the betterment of the people, you can suggest so in a respectful and non-hostile manner.

I am giving my suggestion.
Make a trade and military blocks like EU and NATO with Arab states. No killings in Yemen, Syria, Libya. No warmongering on Iran. Develop nukes and ICBMs so others won't have the balls to intervene in your affairs. It looks impossible? Because you are busy fighting among yourselves.

 

[sahaliyan]

This is not a religious issue.The Iranian FM said Jerusalem will remain be Islamic.Based on his words,he means this city will remain only Islamic.This is foolish,and Iranian mullahs have their own agenda hide behind this"Jerusalem will remain only Islamic" nonsence
Jerusalem belong to Jews,Christians and musilims.And we should not forget,the native Christian population of this city are also Arabs and Palestinians.If Palestinian struggle is only a muslim struggle,then what about those Christian arabs?They are also part of this struggle.
I support Jerusalem been the capital of Israel,but this city should not be undivided,the west Jeruslem and some part of old city(such as west wall)should belong to the Isreal,and other parts of Jerusalem should belong to the Christian and muslim arabs,and be their capital

 

[$@rJen]

Thirdly, when India invaded Pakistan in 1965, Pakistan responded, with full power.

Don't deviate from the given subject.
And learn a proper History, It was the Pakistanis who started the war in 65 by trying to capture Kashmir.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I am giving my suggestion.
Make a trade and military blocks like EU and NATO with Arab states. No killings in Yemen, Syria, Libya. No warmongering on Iran. Develop nukes and ICBMs so others won't have the balls to intervene in your affairs. It looks impossible? Because you are busy fighting among yourselves.

What don't you understand? Arabs are not one united body. There are 20 + Arab states on 2 continents and one of the largest diasporas outside of the Arab world of any people. 30-35 million Arabs (and their descendants) alone live in South America.

Arabs tried to built nuclear weapons (Iraq and Libya) and such plans were quickly destroyed although both countries were relatively close. You know why? Because half of the Arab world borders Southern Europe (West) and a country like Iraq is just next door to nuclear armed Israel. Tiny Jordan is the only thing that separates Israel from Iraq.

Arabs are a people that Europeans have had a historical rivalry with. We occupied their lands and ruled them for 800 years in Spain and Portugal alone and many other areas of Southern Europe (Sicily, parts of Southern Italy, Crete, Cyprus, Malta etc.) In return they were present in our lands too since the Roman Empire. We had mutual dealigns, mutual influences, at times good ties and at other times not so good ties. What has remained in the past 1400 years is that Islam and Muslims have always been seen as enemies. Crusades etc. Europeans were always meddling in the Arab world looking for resources. The reason why Europeans started exploring the world was due to the Arab monopoly of trade. Then came the British and French colonization of large parts of the Arab world. Only Arabia (not all of it even) escaped from this, in particular KSA. Against all odds.

Pakistan on the other hand for instance was a far away country that Europeans had little dealings with. Not to say that there is no single Arab country with 200 + million people. Instead there are tons of middle-sized Arab countries, a few dozen very small ones, and a few select larger ones.

Arabs would not care about Iran nor consider it as a hostile country (let alone the people) if the so-called Iranian Arab Mullah's ruling Iran, would not meddle in internal Arab affairs using Israel (a country that they have never attacked) as an excuse. Pre-1979 there were no hostilities but good neighborly ties. You might be not aware of this.

Yes, there is infighting currently because we are going though a unprecedented period in modern-history. After effects of the Arab spring and a large and quickly growing young population that wants to change status quo. This coupled with 20 + nation states, many different ideologies, viewpoints, outside meddling, numerous wars etc. makes this a difficult thing and not something that you do overnight.

On the other hand tiny, homogenous Bangladesh surrender by India and China (now acting like a semi-vassal in order to protect Bangladesh from its big neighbor India) has a much easier time at kickstarting a single policy. Not to say that many Arabs are ruled by unelected and unpopular regimes. Do you understand that or is it too difficult?

 

[$@rJen]

It’s not your nation or your society as you admit India is for Hindus your land house job belongs to Hindus. Occupying people against their will, land grabbing building settlements, apartheid laws and policies, ethinic cleansing and mass murdering Palestinians are being done by peaceful Israelis

LoL kid..
Talk about those Arab,Christian,ROman occupiers who forced the Jews out of their land, burned the remaining Jews alive..Forcefully converted them to Islam and Christianity.
Land grappling and building settlement in Israel... Israel is their Right.. no one should deny it.

 

[Falcon29]

Well you are right. I'm sorry.
I'm just frustrated with the developments in ME. Whenever I see any news on ME it is almost always a negative news. When I try to analyze things from my perspective I find things so illogical that it's frustrating. Trust me, I have talked with some Arabs about these issues. And they blame everyone else other than themselves. Btw, I was criticizing Arab leaders and sometimes Muslims in general.

No problem, some Arabs are that way some aren't. I am very self critiquing and have been that way for awhile now on PDF. This must be the first time we came across each other. I too and I'm sure many other of us also frustrated and it's not easy to change the situation. I try to change peoples perspectives and give advices but there is so much you can do with changing people's minds. I think part of it is due to modern way of life. Anyway I have to go now, have a good day and hope you and @Saif al-Arab can put this behind and look to see you again. I think he can explain the details well.

 

[Mage]

Economy, military, living standards, infrastructure, law and order, much lower crime levels, much higher literacy rate, much better educational level, much better ranked universities, much more land, much more resources, much more money, much more potential etc.

True. So what are you doing with it? Despite having so much money you need US for your security. Vast majority of Islamic terrorists have been Arabs. Spending money to spread Wahhabi and terrorism, you may call it achievement but I wouldn't.

Over 50% of all the 500 million Arabs are below 25. What I wrote is a personal estimation. I am sure that the real number is much larger. I already told you that KSA alone (25 million people) is doing better than 80 million Iran with similar resources.

Yeah. Take pride in making more babies.

KSA or most Arab states do not have the need to reverse engineer ancient USSR technology delivered by North Korea and Ukraine. We can actually buy the technology something that Iran wishes to (did you read about them ordering a record number of Airbus's the second the sanctions were lifted or there was talk of this being lifted?). As I told you Iran learned missile technology from Arabs themselves. Read about Syrians teaching this to Iran post-Shah removal. You can even find some Iranians talking about it openly here although it might be painful for them to admit.

You can buy but you can't make. Iran can at least do some reverse engineering. As an engineer myself, which one should I respect more?

LOL. The Iraq-Iran war was an Iraqi victory despite Iraq being 3 times smaller and having a 2.5 times smaller population. Vastly many more Iranians died than Iraqis and much more of Iran was destroyed than otherwise. How is that an "Arab defeat". Maybe in your biased worldview.

Iraq-Kuwait war? Are you drunk? That's an internal Arab war.

Yes, blame Arabs (in this case one Arab country alone - Iraq) for losing a war against an undisputed world power (USA) and their coalition. Is this some joke or what? Yet despite that the Iraqi resistance did 3 times the harm in less than 10 years than the Afghan resistance has done against the same US in Afghanistan after 16 + years of fighting. Ask most US soldiers who have served in both Iraq and Afghanistan and tell them where they experienced the most harsh battles and where most of their colleagues died or were injured. The answer will be Iraq and the enemies will be Arabs.

Israel-Arab (once again only a minority of Arab countries were involved and you are not familiar with the dynamics during those wars, the treason, distrust etc.) or the fact that those Arabs states essentially fought against the West (US) with USSR weapons against Western technology. That would always have been a loss. Not to say that Israel fought for their very survival from home. Always a HUGE advantage. Those wars are outdated as well. The last war occurred almost 50 years ago.

Libya. Once again, this war was a civil war between Libyans were outside powers (US, UK, France, Qatar etc.) and others took the side of the Libyan rebels who last time I saw were/are Arabs. Nothing to do with a war between Arabs and foreigners.

Same story with Yemen which you are probably all unfamiliar with.

Yes, all 20 + Arab countries are fighting each other while the reality is that 4 countries suffer from their first civil wars in history (Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen - expect for Yemen that has had a civil war before). So according to your logic, every Arab is fighting against themselves. Great Bangladeshi logic.

So? Well, it proves your nonsense wrong. You praise Iran for achievements that are nowhere to be seen without realizing hat Iranian Arabs have played an important role in that (according to you so-called "success").

Lets cut it short. Why most of the ongoing crisis right now are happening in Arab states? Why Arabs are the ones suffering the most? I don't think Iran is suffering like Iraq, Syria....while they were more likely to suffer because of their anti-US anti-Israel attitude?

Did an Arab in Sweden do you any harm or did an Arab women refuse your advances? What is it?

No. I actually get along well with Arabs unless I get into political debates with them.

 

[$@rJen]

This is not a religious issue.The Iranian FM said Jerusalem will remain be Islamic.Based on his words,he means this city will remain only Islamic.This is foolish,and Iranian mullahs have their own agenda hide behind this"Jerusalem will remain only Islamic" nonsence
Jerusalem belong to Jews,Christians and musilims.And we should not forget,the native Christian population of this city are also Arabs and Palestinians.If Palestinian struggle is only a muslim struggle,then what about those Christian arabs?They are also part of this struggle.
I support Jerusalem been the capital of Israel,but this city should not be undivided,the west Jeruslem and some part of old city(such as west wall)should belong to the Isreal,and other parts of Jerusalem should belong to the Christian and muslim arabs,and be their capital

If the city is divided among Jews and Palstinians the only loser here would be the Christians... Christians want it to be in the hands of Israel than palatine

 

[sahaliyan]

If the city is divided among Jews and Palstinians the only loser here would be the Christians... Christians want it to be in the hands of Israel than palatine

As far as I know,many Palestinian leaders are chrisrians,george Habash for example

 

[Saif al-Arab]

LoL kid..
Talk about those Arab,Christian,ROman occupiers who forced the Jews out of their land, burned the remaining Jews alive..Forcefully converted them to Islam and Christianity.
Land grappling and building settlement in Israel... Israel is their Right.. no one should deny it.

You are a joke. An Indian pretending to be a Jew and Israeli. Laughable.

Arabs and Jews are both Semitic people. They are cousins. They are neighbors. They share a similar religion (Abrahamic and Semitic) and a similar language. Other things too that are irrelevant for this discussion.

Normal Arabs and normal Jews do not hate each other due to being either Jewish or Arab but those who hate each other hate each other due to politics. There was no such hatred when those hating each other today grandparents were born. Do you get it, Indian?

This is not a racial war but a war based on land dispute and to a smaller degree religion. Jews are not native to Israel. Other Semitic peoples (mostly originally from Southern Levant and Arabia) lived in what is modern-day Israel and Palestine before the first Jewish Kingdoms.

Did you know for instance that one of the most famous Jewish Kings (Herod the Great one of the few Jewish kings called "Great") was a non-Hebrew but a Edomite and half Nabatean. Both Semitic peoples and both originally from modern-day Hijaz in KSA?

It is generally accepted that Herod was born around 73 BCE in Idumea, south of Judea.[14][not in citation given]. However, some authors think that he was born in about 72/71 BCE.[15] He was the second son of Antipater the Idumaean, a high-ranking official under ethnarch Hyrcanus II, and Cypros, a Nabatean. Herod's father was by descent an Edomite, descendants of Esau, whose ancestors had converted to Judaism. Herod was raised as a Jew.[16][17][18][19][20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great

Did you know that modern-day Palestinians and other Arabs in the region (Saudi Arabians, Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians etc.) cluster much more with skeletons from the Natufian civilization (the civilization that invented agriculture 12.500 BC (!) ) than Eastern European Jews (what a surprise)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natufian_culture

Here are the DNA results from last year (2016)

https://plot.ly/~PortalAntropologiczny9cfa/1.embed?share_key=za9Lb3y1UX6nJRG9v4EXOL

Here is the entire report:

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/06/16/059311.full.pdf

BTW those who clustered the most were modern-day Saudi Arabians.

Did you know that most of the Israeli Jews are Jews from Arab countries originally?

There was no ethnic cleansing. Stop lying. Arabs, unlike Romans, lifted the ban on Jews entering Jerusalem/Al-Quds and allowed them to pray in Al-Quds/Jerusalem in their holy sites. This was done by Umar ibn al-Khattab (ra) one of the greatest rulers of all-time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar

Unlike the Romans, Arabs did not persecute Jews or commit genocide on them. Or denied them access to their holy sites.

The largest Jewish community lived in the Arab world pre-WW1. Meaning before the current day mess began. So much for your genocide nonsense.

On the other hand native Palestinians who used to live in modern-day Israel, only a fraction of them (20%) remain. So if anything genocide is something that was committed by Israel in the sense of mass-expulsions.

This silly decision will do nothing else but create more trouble and make a two-state solution even more difficult. Trust me, almost 8 (more than Jews in Israel) million Palestines in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel are not going anywhere. East Jerusalem will not be ethnically cleansed either by Israel. The Al-Aqsa Mosque will not be destroyed either.

All this means is that USA has finally (at last) shown itself not to be a unbiased broker, something that Palestinians and Arabs knew about decades ago. Now everything is in the open. It has once again confirmed that this is not an Arab-Israeli struggle but an Arab-Israeli (US) struggle. Basically Israel is an extension of the US/West and seen as untouchable by them. Palestinians do unfortunately not have such an ally. Blaming Arabs for not being able to stand up against that in our current situation, is like asking Bangladesh, Pakistan or India to defeat the US and West in a war. It's never going to happen either.

@Falcon29