What lies behind Turkish Defence Industry Success ???

[KediKesenFare3]

I don't know about Turkish politics but I believe that military R&D in aviation was stepped up exponentially in 2001 or 2002.

Unfortunately, like every military man in the Middle East the Turkish generals, too, preferred for a long time Western weapons over homegrown alternatives.

There were some developments in the 90's but the current state of our defense industry is probably the biggest achievement of AKP.

This doesn't mean that AKP didn't make mistakes - some of the choices they made were flat out wrong but in general and to answer the question of the opening post: it was the civil government that has developed the Turkish defense industry.

 

[himate]

Unfortunately, like every military man in the Middle East the Turkish generals, too, preferred for a long time Western weapons over homegrown alternatives.

There were some developments in the 90's but the current state of our defense industry is probably the biggest achievement of AKP.

This doesn't mean that AKP didn't make mistakes - some of the choices they made were flat out wrong but in general and to answer the question of the opening post: it was the civil government that has developed the Turkish defense industry.

Simple fact! It is the vision of erdogan and his supporters to make turkey a global power and to achieve that needed heavy investment in the defence industry. Any other interpretation is BS made up by traitors. Even longstanding external enemies of turkey/muslim acknowledge this fact

 

[xenon54 out]

but far from first class yet.

And you say that because?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

My 2 cents based on my "pre-historic" experience in Turkey, when the IMF used to send "Colonial Governors" to rule, and the society used to be divided among Rightist/Leftist; Kemalist/Islamist; Secular/Religious; Nationalist/Communist etc. lines:

• Middle East Technical University, Istanbul Technical University, Bosporus University, Bilkent University etc. Top engineering/science professors are engaged in defense related projects along with their research students. Extreme emphasis have been on Microwaves, Communications, Mechatronics, High Power High Freq semiconductor devices, optoelectronics, Robotics etc....
• Top Turkish engineering/science grads happily work in the Turkish defense industries, instead of writing codes for the US "social media" companies
• TUBITAK for establishing the centers of excellences in different cities and opening their branches at the top Turkish universities to work on defense related projects
• Sending post-grad students for PhDs to the USA/Canada etc. A certain % of them did return
• Reverse brain drain from the Western companies' Turkish employees
• Hosting the ex-Soviet professors, especially in the fields of electromagnetics, solid state physics, optoelectronics etc., at the top Turkish universities after the break-up of the USSR
• Establishment of ASELSAN following the embargo due to the Cyprus Peace Ops
• Working in NATO projects
• Easy access to the "reference systems", "development suits", ICs, software etc. from the western countries
• Extreme political will reflected in the common populace
• Will to fight the former glory back
• Previous Turkish top politicians were engineering grads: Suleyman Demirel (Civil Engineer), Turgut Ozal (Electrical Engineer), Nejmettin Erbakan (Mechanical Engineer) etc.
• etc...

Bottom line: without the national and indigenous military industrial complex, you're as good as dead

Please forgive me for being blunt, key components still heavily relies on west. You can make weapons, but far from first class yet.
Very good progress though.

The Turkish defense systems have made the "minced meat" out of the Russian systems, which won the Korean, Vietnam etc. wars....

 

[Ansu fati]

Please forgive me for being blunt, key components still heavily relies on west. You can make weapons, but far from first class yet.
Very good progress though.

Well if we want to talk really in detail then only US Russia and France are 100% self sufficient(though France buys some weapons from US)
All other states including those with almost “indigenous” defense industry have at least several key parts in all (sea air land) platforms that they need to buy from these three previously mentioned

 

[vi-va]

Well if we want to talk really in detail then only US Russia and France are 100% self sufficient(though France buys some weapons from US)
All other states including those with almost “indigenous” defense industry have at least several key parts in all (sea air land) platforms that they need to buy from these three previously mentioned

France is not 100% self sufficient. China is.

 

[Oublious]

France is not 100% self sufficient. China is.

yeah why do you buy russian engine for your fighters?

 

[vi-va]

yeah why do you buy russian engine for your fighters?

Legacy. Many jets used Russian engine before, it's doesn't mean we don't have alternative.

China indigenous WS-10/WS-10B can replace AF-31. and WS-15/WS20 in the on the way.

 

[Nosferatu]

General CEVIK BIR and 30 other officers were taken in custody for their role in the 1997 military memorandum that forced the Turkish government led by the Refah Party (ERBAKAN ) to step down ..... a coup ordered by Israel

in 1997 Albanian origin General CEVIK BIR has agreed with Israel $100 billion weapon sale and modernization in 20-25 years

-- 54 F-4 Jets modernization
-- 170 M-60T Tank modernization
-- Production of hundreds of POPEYE Cruise Missiles
-- etc etc

The tender for the modernization of 170 M60 Tanks was awarded to Israeli IMI in 2000
The cost of a M60T Tank came to us $ 4.5 million. The cost of the Leopard-2 Tanks we bought from Germany came to $ 1 million
( Although the cost of the project was determined as $290 million in 2000, the cost of the project has increased to $687 million )


but in 2002 ERDOGAN won election and in 2004 ERDOGAN has decided to develop national defense industry instead of $100 billion weapon sale and modernization with Israel and other under license production projects like Tank,Attack Helicopter,UCAV

led by ERDOGAN Turkish military projects have risen to almost 700 from 66 between 2002 and 2020
( Israel doesnt have 700 military projects )

Stop your crap and keep it for yourself. I’m the one who knows exactly what we gained thanks to the deal with the Israelis, not you. Aselsan’s entire fire control systems and RWS are based on Volkan-I FCS. Guess what? Volkan FCS was successful because of the Israeli TOT.

 

[GlobalMillitary96]

My 2 cents based on my "pre-historic" experience in Turkey, when the IMF used to send "Colonial Governors" to rule, and the society used to be divided among Rightist/Leftist; Kemalist/Islamist; Secular/Religious; Nationalist/Communist etc. lines:

• Middle East Technical University, Istanbul Technical University, Bosporus University, Bilkent University etc. Top engineering/science professors are engaged in defense related projects along with their research students. Extreme emphasis have been on Microwaves, Communications, Mechatronics, High Power High Freq semiconductor devices, optoelectronics, Robotics etc....
• Top Turkish engineering/science grads happily work in the Turkish defense industries, instead of writing codes for the US "social media" companies
• TUBITAK for establishing the centers of excellences in different cities and opening their branches in the top Turkish universities to work on defense related projects
• Sending post-grad students for PhDs in the USA/Canada etc. A certain % of them did return
• Reverse brain drain from the Western companies' Turkish employees
• Hosting the ex-Soviet professors, especially in the field of solid state physics, optoelectronics etc., at the top Turkish universities after the break-up of the USSR
• Establishment of ASELSAN following the embargo due to the Cyprus Peace Ops
• Working in NATO projects
• Easy access to the "reference systems", "development suits", ICs, software etc. from the western countries
• Extreme political will reflected in the common populace
• Will to fight back the former glory
• Previous Turkish top politicians were engineering grads: Suleyman Demirel (Civil Engineer), Turgut Ozal (Electrical Engineer), Nejmettin Erbakan (Mechanical Engineer) etc.
• etc...

Bottom line: without the national and indigenous military industrial complex, you're as good as dead

This is a quality post.

I particularly like the part where you mentioned ex-soviet professors. Similar to how the USA quickly advanced due to captured/surrendered Nazi scientists, Turkey had a similar experience with ex-Soviet scientists. We need to remember that a lot of them are Turkic, so it was a natural choice to help out Turkey.

 

[himate]

Stop your crap and keep it for yourself. I’m the one who knows exactly what we gained thanks to the deal with the Israelis, not you. Aselsan’s entire fire control systems and RWS are based on Volkan-I FCS. Guess what? Volkan FCS was so successful because of the Israeli TOT.

It seems that people like you dont have a clue. No one is saying turkey didnt receive help here and there but the whole essence of this debate is that Turkey had the will since erdogan took power to pursue technological superiority either through hook or crook. Where there is a strong will there is always a way!
Why shouldn't Turkey take advantage and short cut technology with what is available through foreign relations? Its called tactics and strategy. Turkey could've took many times more technical benefits in its 70years of alliance with the west but we didnt because we lacked leaders with vision and who were only interested in being mentally enslaved to the western way of life until erdogan and akp came along. That is the damn truth

Also same can be said about israel. Most of their technology is either stolen or given to them while they take advantage of their alliance with the west. It doesnt make them any less because what matters most is that they have leaders who care about the future of their country and they have vision

 

[merzifonlu]

Turkey could've took many times more technical benefits in its 70years of alliance with the west but we didnt because we lacked leaders with vision and who were only interested in being mentally enslaved to the western way of life until erdogan and akp came along.

That is the damn AkTroll liar.

 

[MMM-E]

That is the damn AkTroll liar.

before ERDOGAN , there was no even Turkish Battle Rifle you liar and ungrateful TROLLs

and We never forget about trash Israeli HERONs


the most important thing is political support and Erdogan has decided to develop national defense industry after 2004 ( only MILGEM project is before Erdogan )


only one example

ATTACK HELICOPTER PROJECT
It was agreed in 2000 that the contract negotiations started with the American Bell Helicopter Textron company, and if the negotiations with Bell Helicopter Textron could not be achieved, then negotiations with the Russian Kamov and Israeli IAI firms

even Bell and Kamov firms named the Helicopter as ERDOGAN
but there was no technology transfer

T-129 ATAK project was initiated in 2007
Turkey took T-129 Attack Helicopter technology from Italy because of Erdogan and Berlusconi are good friends

Turkey has developed even Aircrafts between 1936 and 1944 but INONU closed Aircraft factory in Turkey and He bought 2nd hand Aircrafts from France

Nu.D Aircraft Factory in Yeşilköy-ISTANBUL

Zihniyetinizin Nuri Demiragı , Vecihi Hurkusu nasıl yok ettigini unutmadık

 

[Ansu fati]

Legacy. Many jets used Russian engine before, it's doesn't mean we don't have alternative.

China indigenous WS-10/WS-10B can replace AF-31. and WS-15/WS20 in the on the way.

Why do you buy brand new russian jets still if China has 5th and 4th++ own fighter jets??
Why the purchase of S400??
Are you sure all critical components of various systems are of purely chinese origin??
China thanks to its economy and technological advances will definitely become the 4th 100% self sufficient in the future but for now they aren’t self sufficient that’s a fact
France except in UCAVs which are new weapon europeans are a bit late due to financial funding issues(for now) but is self sufficient in all areas
If neuron program is successfully finished then France(and Europe) would jump at the top when it comes to having world class UAV technology

 

[vi-va]

Why do you buy brand new russian jets still if China has 5th and 4th++ own fighter jets??
Why the purchase of S400??
Are you sure all critical components of various systems are of purely chinese origin??
China thanks to its economy and technological advances will definitely become the 4th 100% self sufficient in the future but for now they aren’t self sufficient that’s a fact
France except in UCAVs which are new weapon europeans are a bit late due to financial funding issues(for now) but is self sufficient in all areas
If neuron program is successfully finished then France(and Europe) would jump at the top when it comes to having world class UAV technology

Because it's good deal, build trust between Russia and China.
Most Russia export to China are not high tech, except weapons and nuclear reactor. China need to import some Russia high tech to balance the trade deficit. Military deal is highly politicized, not purely business.

More importantly, when you can have a first hand experience on Russia newest weapon system for billions of USD, why not? Billions of USD is not a big deal for China at all.

France is integrated into EU deeply. Germany has best machinery, France go ahead using it. France industry heavily integrated with Germany, it's not 100% self sufficient at all.

Even US heavily depends on Japan, Korea, Germany and British.

Russia import many key component from EU as well. After Crimea Crisis, Russia turn to China for those key component, such as Infrared sensor, Radisafe Anti-radiation Chip in space program, etc.