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What is Karachi's population?

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I notice this is turning into a contentious subject. Can we use this thread to present evidence or make a case that the Census 2017 figure was incorrect. My understanding is the army was also involved in the count to help make accurate, reliable enumeration of the population.

I would like to say that the whole point of a national census is to provide a common referance. If the national census is not accepted then it is recipe for chaos. It's like in game of cricket. If you don't accept the umpires decision and only accept if it is to your satisfaction then how can you expect others to accept it? If Karachi refuses to accept tommorrow Lahore could refuse, the next Quetta could refuse, the next Multan could refuse. It would get to a point where there would no point in having a national as any region not happy would challange it.

So asides from the principle that all should accept a national census what proof is there that the census figure is incorrect and incorrect only for Karachi?
 
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Interesting that nobody chose to provide a argumant either way. But of interest and relevant to this thread is this article -


Here are 12 reasons why I think that under-reporting in Karachi’s population can’t be as large as claimed by political parties. Source: https://medium.com/@hasaankhawar/12...was-significantly-under-reported-3d1c5f4a1178

1. Karachi’s urban population stood at 5.2 million in 1981. It then grew at an average growth rate of 3.49% reaching 9.3 million by 1998. Since then however, the growth slowed down to 2.49%, as per recent census results, with population now reaching 14.9 million. Even at present level, it shows tremendous growth over the last two decades.

2. Interestingly, even if Karachi’s population had grown at the same rate, as was witnessed between 1981–1998, it would have still reached close to 18 million, way below what political parties are claiming.

3. In 2013, the total number of registered voters in Karachi division was 7.1 million, which represents 44% of present population. The percentage in Lahore is not very different, with 4.4 million voters representing 40% of city’s population.

4. For Karachi to have 30 million people, it should have grown at an average growth rate of 6.33%, which is absolutely unrealistic. Just to put things in perspective, this number is so absurd that if Karachi actually had 30 million people and continued to grow at this rate, its population would be way more than the rest of Pakistan in the next 50 years.

5. These counter estimates of 22–30 million mean that about 2–3 citizens out of every 6 were not counted. This does not seem to hold ground.

6. Even for Karachi to have a population of 22 million, this growth rate should have been 4.6%, significantly higher than that of Lahore. Those who had observed both cities grow over the last two decades know very well that the pace of change in Lahore’s infrastructure has been much more than that of Karachi.

7. The rural population of Karachi division however stands at merely 1.1 million, spread across parts of Karachi West and Malir districts. Even if we consider all of it urban, it wouldn’t still make a sizeable difference to Karachi’s reported population, and would merely increase it to 16 million. So allegations of deliberately categorizing urban population as ‘rural’ do not seem true.

8. The demarcation of rural and urban areas falls under the purview of provincial government and not Pakistan Bureau of Statistics.

9. Another potential reason for under-reporting could be to make a dent in overall population of Sindh to lessen its provincial share in federal resources and National Assembly seats. Interestingly, when compared to the last census, Sindh is the only province that has retained its share of 23% in national population. KP and Baluchistan have gained share, while Punjab is the only one that has lost its share from 56% to 53%. This could result in loss of 8+ seats for Punjab in National Assembly. It is clear that Punjab is at the losing end here, not Sindh.

10. The census could have a methodological error. Such an unintentional error however would lead to erroneous results across the board and not just one city.

11. Yet another issue is of a large base and Karachi’s demographics. Considering the education and income level of Karachi residents, it can be safely assumed that Karachi’s birth rate should be way below the national average. Overestimates about Karachi’s population are based on the notion of urbanization, with people from other cities migrating to Karachi. These migrants however would translate into smaller growth figure, considering that Karachi already had close to 10 million people in 1998.

12. Anecdotal evidence suggests some out-migration from Karachi as well during the last two decades. Besides, we must take into account the huge inflow of people who commute to Karachi everyday to earn their livelihoods. This should also be a significant chunk, which does put a drain to Karachi’s resources but wouldn’t be counted as Karachi residents for census.

Why is it hard to believe that Karachi’s population growth has slowed down? Isn’t it intuitive that law and order challenges, poor civic services as compared to other major Pakistani metropolitans and lack of infrastructure investments have made Karachi a less attractive destination?
 
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Interesting that nobody chose to provide a argumant either way. But of interest and relevant to this thread is this article -
Well one of my teachers told me once: Don't wrestle with donkey in mud. Because after some time you will realize that while Donkey is enjoying it, you are getting dirty.
But here is the real issue, which is pain for Karachi walas. The data that govt gets is corrupted by wadyra Shahi. Now you tell me, what we should present?
 
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This guy just doesn't stop.
Should I stop posting? Am I supposed to confine within a certain perspective that aligns with their agenda? There is posters here who cry 24/7 about being victims. Then go far as to say the establishment is even fudging their numbers and refusing to accept the nationwide 2017 census.

I merely opened this thread to allow scrutiny of this claim and recieve the pros and cons of this debate. I took the view that the census 2017 was about accurate as is expected within the Pakistani context. But others think differant and I was expecting to see what evidence or thoughts they can bring to support their claim. I have not seen yet of any.
 
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Should I stop posting? Am I supposed to confine within a certain perspective that aligns with their agenda? There is posters here who cry 24/7 about being victims. Then go far as to say the establishment is even fudging their numbers and refusing to accept the nationwide 2017 census.

I merely opened this thread to allow scrutiny of this claim and recieve the pros and cons of this debate. I took the view that the census 2017 was about accurate as is expected within the Pakistani context. But others think differant and I was expecting to see what evidence or thoughts they can bring to support their claim. I have not seen yet of any.
Any post related to Karachi is racism.

- PRTP GWD
 
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Should I stop posting? Am I supposed to confine within a certain perspective that aligns with their agenda? There is posters here who cry 24/7 about being victims. Then go far as to say the establishment is even fudging their numbers and refusing to accept the nationwide 2017 census.

I merely opened this thread to allow scrutiny of this claim and recieve the pros and cons of this debate. I took the view that the census 2017 was about accurate as is expected within the Pakistani context. But others think differant and I was expecting to see what evidence or thoughts they can bring to support their claim. I have not seen yet of any.

He's Indian.

You're Pakistani.

Ergo he has zero locus standi.

Cheers, Doc
 
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My understanding is the army was also involved in the count to help make accurate, reliable enumeration of the population.
Was the Army involved in the Census beyond providing security to the census teams, similar to what it does when deployed during the elections?

I'm not sure how you're comparing Lahore's growth with Karachi's - Karachi tends to attract migrants from all over the country, especially from Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa. Internal migration from KP to Karachi also saw a significant uptick during the years that TTP violence was ascendant. This would have been above and beyond the 'normal' growth Karachi would have seen during the same period. I do recall the Sindhi nationalist parties (and the PPP) having issues with this because they were concerned over the demographic changes impacting their vote banks in Sindh.
 
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Was the Army involved in the Census beyond providing security to the census teams, similar to what it does when deployed during the elections?
The same protocols were used for rest of Pakistan. Thus if there is any issues then those would apply across the entire country and not be Karachi specific.

Karachi tends to attract migrants from all over the country, especially from Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa.
Lahore pulls in from the vast rural population of Punjab. Furthermore the urban Mohajir population growth rate will have reduced and anyother increase [in country] would be balanced out. Also why would MQM shouting the loudest about this charge of census undercount when Pakhtun votes would either go to ANP or PTI?
Any post related to Karachi is racism.
Yes, I agree. There is air of exceptionalism about this. Dare anybody question anything in this direction but we see thread after thread flinging it the other way around.
 
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Also why would MQM shouting the loudest about this charge of census undercount when Pakhtun votes would either go to ANP or PTI?

MQM Pakistan would probably ally with non-PPP parties if it saw the opportunity to break the stranglehold the PPP has on Sindh and effect in proper local government in Karachi that would likely be MQM dominated.
 
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Was the Army involved in the Census beyond providing security to the census teams, similar to what it does when deployed during the elections?

I'm not sure how you're comparing Lahore's growth with Karachi's - Karachi tends to attract migrants from all over the country, especially from Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa. Internal migration from KP to Karachi also saw a significant uptick during the years that TTP violence was ascendant. This would have been above and beyond the 'normal' growth Karachi would have seen during the same period. I do recall the Sindhi nationalist parties (and the PPP) having issues with this because they were concerned over the demographic changes impacting their vote banks in Sindh.

Census was not perfect. Gov need to make census public so people can see where mistakes has been made. And prepare for better census next time, its not the first or last census. But MQM cry for census doesn't make any sense. Their figure would meant that muhajirs are no longer single biggest ethnicity in Karachi. Does it feel like that? Why there are only 7m voters in Karachi? So muhajirs are majority registered voters but are not really majority in reality. Thats fucked up against other ethnic groups in Karachi.

But thats not all, these MQM go all the way and reject every census before that to make sense of their ridiculous number.
 
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MQM Pakistan would probably ally with non-PPP parties if it saw the opportunity to break the stranglehold the PPP has on Sindh and effect in proper local government in Karachi that would likely be MQM dominated.
If the Pakhtuns were undercounted you would expect ANP, PTI etc to be shouting the loudest. That is straight forward logic. Instead the usual suspects on PDF and in real life are shouting from the roof tops.
 
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If the Pakhtuns were undercounted you would expect ANP, PTI etc to be shouting the loudest. That is straight forward logic. Instead the usual suspects on PDF and in real life are shouting from the roof tops.
True, though the PTI has always wanted to position itself as a national party.

Quite frankly I don't have any good answers here. I don't have enough information on how the Census was conducted in Karachi and how the count was tabulated, audited etc.
 
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True, though the PTI has always wanted to position itself as a national party.

Quite frankly I don't have any good answers here. I don't have enough information on how the Census was conducted in Karachi and how the count was tabulated, audited etc.
It's the typical disease of people who refuse to accept anything they don't agree with. It's like in sport. You have to have a umpire. All have to agree to the umpire's decision even if it goes against them. We can't have a situation that anything short of my way is no way.

A national census with army did it;s job. Everybody should accept that. Or who we going to call? The UN and Indian Army to over see it?
Look at below report of 2014 - regarding Karachi.

City’s traffic policemen too few to regulate over 3.5m vehicles daily

“Currently there are 3.6 million registered vehicles running on Karachi roads,” said Muhammad Shoaib Ahmed Siddiqui, director general of the Sindh excise and taxation.

Pakistan literally wiped out half of Karachi's population in recent last census.

As per Pakistan - There are more vehicles in city than people :rofl:
What report? You gave no link to this? And the population cited was 15 million not 3.6 million. :crazy:
 
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