No disagreements there.
I too don't think Babur is some pseudo derivative of Tomahawk either.
My main quandary was people re-repeating the same hearsay about how Babur was some reverse engineered Tomahawk.
As for how much pakistan learned from the crashed Tomahawk and were able to successfully emulate, I'm again led to the fact that cruise missiles are extremely difficult to R&D and that Americans with the complete knowledge of the system and not just the missile's carcass, were having crashes during the same period(late 90s early 2000s) when Babur was probably being R&Ded.
In fact Tomahawks were at one point failing so often that they had to devise a study to just learn how to study the failures and failure rates.
From the Tomahawk pakistan might just have learned how to integrate and the like, anything in the category of indigenous production however seems rather suspect.
Which is exactly what I inferred, that China in all probability has a hand if not all limbs in the development of Babur.
@Goku-kun
True, India does get help from allies like Russia.
In fact, there were reports of Nirbhay's initial tests being done with a Russian turbofan, the latest one however was with the Indian PTAE-7.
Unfortunately, that only inflames one's doubts.
And the hiding of failures, coupled with pakistan's relatively low R&D budget, no sign of indigenous development of crucial subsystems for cruise missiles like the engine, seeker, the more advanced miniaturized and missile grade avionics, that short time frame and low apparent volume of tests makes one think that if Babur truly is wholly if not mostly pakistan developed then how effective is it and if Babur truly is effective then if it isn't some Chinese cruise missile analogue.
Easy. Read above.
You are confusing your own confirmation bias with what you are terming as "simple".
Cruise missiles aren't simple, if they were it wouldn't have taken billions of dollars and decades of development to make the Tomahawk - the first modern, mass produced and probably the best sub sonic cruise missile in the world .
And?
Why should I care for the fact that a legitimate query is bothering some people?
Facts really don't care about how you feel.
I understand, the need to vehemently want something but at some point you just have to think for yourself and question the rhetoric and not just repeat what everyone else is saying.
Just like that, one day it was created and some time after, it was inducted?
Clearly, pakistan without the available industry, labs, etc for such high tech systems can make cruise missiles faster with far fewer tests than even USA.
Why? Because "its simple", because some pakistanis said so.
Got it.
Strawman argument.
You say that only coz you still aren't able to follow what I am saying.
The oppressive ennui I'm feeling explaining this; Nirbhay would be a "version of babur" if babur had crashed in India and we had "reverse engineered it", and Nirbhay's range was lesser than Babur and Nirbhay didn't have an active radar seeker like the Babur doesn't.
Again, I suggest you stay a little longer in the forum read the old stickys in the pakistani section, maybe humble yourself before getting into debates you aren't really prepared for.
