What Does China Have To DO To Become THE World Power?

[ChineseTiger1986]

The fallacy of comparing KMT to CCP and why it didn't achieve anything.

CCP didn't anything anything too, up until westerners came to Deng and he was smart enough to see where progress was. Noone can say that if KMT was in power events would unfold differently.



How's that going for them? Not really well is it?



China always needed a sugar daddy. First it was Romans who financed silk with excessive amount of gold, then it was US/EU corporations who brought you out of the Mao inspired gutter.

China has no sugar daddy in its history, and those Chinese regimes who wanna seek for a sugar daddy were all short lived, KMT is just a prime example.

Under Mao's CPC, China has independently developed its H-bomb, satellites, ICBM, nuclear subs despite got sanctioned by both USA and USSR.

When we were getting strong enough under Mao's legacy, we can open our market during Deng's era.

Everything was carefully planned, that's why CPC is absolutely genius for bringing China from a poorly developed into an industrialized giant by just bypassing the US guard.

 

[Audio]

China has no sugar daddy in its history, and those Chinese regime who wanna seek for a sugar daddy were all short lived, KMT is just a prime example.

Under Mao's CPC, China has independently developed its H-bomb, its satellites, ICBM, nuclear subs despite got sanctioned by both USA and USSR.

When we were getting strong enough under Mao's legacy, we can open our market during Deng's era.

Everything was carefully planned, that's why CPC is absolutely genius to bring China from a poorly developed into an industrialized giant just bypassing the US guard.

LOL! Full yuan for this!

Can't believe you actually expect me to gobble up this BS? You should have known better mate.

Mao legacy?-Famine? Only good legacy of his was a later realization by Deng that being isolationist doesn't pay off. Is a history lesson and Deng paid attention.
Bypassing US guard? US invested among the first?
No sugar daddy? What do you call foreigners who invested in China under Deng? From where do you think money for "we must let a few get rich in order for everyone else to get rich later" came from?
By getting strong from Mao legacy, does that mean you started to eat normal rations and physical strength returned to your people?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

LOL! Full yuan for this!

Can't believe you actually expect me to gobble up this BS? You should have known better mate.

Mao legacy?-Famine? Only good legacy of his was a later realization by Deng that being isolationist doesn't pay off. Is a history lesson and Deng paid attention.
Bypassing US guard? US invested among the first?
No sugar daddy? What do you call foreigners who invested in China under Deng? From where do you think money for "we must let a few get rich in order for everyone else to get rich later" came from?
By getting strong from Mao legacy, does that means you started to eat normal rations and returned physical strength?

- Mao laid down the foundation for China's industry. Otherwise, where do you think we can build our own H-bomb/satellite/ICBM/nuclear subs? The sacrifice was inevitable, but we did achieve the first step in our goal by laid down the foundation of our industry.

- Yes, we bypassing the US guard, since the US initially didn't expect China to become that strong in the future, they viewed us as a good sweatshop to provide them the cheap labor.

- We didn't owe the foreigners anything, we did gain our industrial might from the foreign investment, but the foreign investors did also gain the huge profit from our cheap labor. Nobody owes each other anything.

- Deng made a mistake by making a such statement, now Xi Jinping who is more Maoist than Deng is correcting his mistakes.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

The fallacy of comparing KMT to CCP and why it didn't achieve anything.

CCP didn't anything anything too, up until westerners came to Deng and he was smart enough to see where progress was. Noone can say that if KMT was in power events would unfold differently.

China in 1949 couldn't produce a bicycle, literacy was 10%, there were still concubines and the average lifespan was 39. This was pretty much the same thing as 1912 when KMT came to power. 27 years later in 1976 literacy was already 70%, average lifespan was over 60 years, women achieved legal equality and China could produce tanks, aircraft, computers, ships and medicine.

I don't know why you think like the penniless Vietnamese refugees.

 

[altaf khan]

I feel sorry for you taking honest advice as insults within the perception of your cheap mind

Chinese Art of Paper Folding

Thanks for your sorry but my perception and mind both are absolutely right.

 

[flamer84]

Europe always needs a sugar daddy, and now the US can no longer be your sugar daddy, so just let Russia to fill that vacuum.

Ukraine was always a part of Russia, so it is none of other people's business when Russia is taking back its land.

Always ? No.........The US is basically Europe on vacation in another continent.Europe "vacations" in Australia,New Zeeland,Canada to.Even in some small parts of Africa.

 

[Brainsucker]

Dude, that's why you die hard Chinese Nationalist did not see thing like we normal Chinese saw.

The debt, as you put it, is that whether or not the debt can deal anything to the US, the answer is no.

It's not that US cannot pay the external debt, rather, US is NOT WILLING TO PAY.

US Taxation revenue is about 27% to the GDP, that is, for those who cannot calculate, roughtly 4.7 Trillions per year, now, for US to pay off the debt, US can (Not saying they will) raise taxes to 30%, which roughly about an extra 1500 per year, at 30 %, which the current tax rate is 22% average) you get about 6.7 trillions per year, now do so for 5 years, the surplus will pay off 10 trillion debt, which more than enough to cover the foreign bond which is about 6 or 7 trillion anyway.

Now, can an American household live off $1000 less a year? While the average is 55,000 USD per year per person income, that's totally doable, but the fact is, will the American government willing to do so?? No, if you raise tax, then you may as well pack your bag and leave white house.

So, the debt that the Chinese Bought, it's not like we can't pay it back, but rather, we don't want to. And that money, increase over time have gone to finance project in the USA, and including yours truly, The Iraq and Afghan war.

e English are Badd?? NO way

Are you a Chinese? I thought you are a Vietnamese who live in America. If my memory still right, Vietnamese members call you Vietnamese.

What do you think this is,children wrestling after school ?.....European powers didn't go alone after China in the Boxer's rebellion but as a pack of wolves after the bigger buffalo.

If the big US wouldn't have "little" EU backing up its sanctions on Russia or "little" Arab oil states taking a dump on oil prices Russia's economy wouldn't have taken the beating of today.This is a body count and every able bodied sailor on deck counts.On both sides.

I agree with this. European is a pack of wolves and together, they have 500 millions people. Way bigger than the US populations. So, European "IS" a super power, if they are united. But, if they are not, they just a group of rich, small countries; compared to US and China.

 

[Gauss]

Humanity must decide what it has to do in this world everyday. A world power would be the one which has the largest share in this decision making. Now things of man get done through capital, which the world has some 75 trillions of. Hence the world power will control the flow of the capital. It will have the most say where that capital goes and gets things done. Now its much easier to control the flow of money in the world when most of it comes from your own pocket. So for China to become the world power it needs to have more money then anyone else. So keep making money fellows. My blessings are with you.

 

[Brainsucker]

The point is NOT how strong China has become today.

The point is what if otherwise?

However, there're no what-ifs in history.

CPC won over KMT in 1949 showed:

that China was probably better ruled by CPC in the era of 1940s other than KMT. That's about it.

It didn't show CPC would be better than KMT in 1960s, or 70s, or 80s, or 90s, ..or today.

That means: yes, CPC perhaps hasn't been too aweful, but KMT could have been better or much better

Under current CPC, 99% of all officials are corrupted. Under current KMT probably 10%. Who is better?

Surely China has come a long way today, but it would be much better to have free media, free speech and independent judiciary system in the process, because it will surely benefit common Chinese folks with more social justice, much less corruptions, much more efficient use and allocations of human resources and China's total assets which have been built by the common folks in the first place.

All these will lead to higher growth, more quality growth, happlier society & people, cleaner environment & air, much more privite innovations and patents, much higher average salaries, much stronger (&more sustained) economy, millitary, cultural influences etc hard & soft power around the world, and hence eventually inevitable statue of back to "the Central Kingdom". .

I don't give a flying hook on which party rules China really.

What I abolutely give a darn, however, is that Chinese people must have free media, free speech, and independent judiciary system, which are the absolute must-haves now for China and the Chinese to prosper continuously in this century and beyond.

And yes, it might be dangerous at the moment when China does so, because other powers might try to take advantage of some inevitable weaknesses of China shown in this transition. But this transition is the absolute right thing, healthy thing and moral thing to do. I have no doubt about it.

Yes, law must above everything. I agree with you. It doesn't mean that PRC should adopt the Taiwanese multiparty democracy. But the Law >>>>>>>> CCP is a must. So just imagine, if a corrupt government can raise a poor nation into today state, then what if the government is cleaner?

But free speech... I don't agree with you. At least not now. Just look at them. Look at their tourists behavior! China needs control over those kind of people. Giving free speech, etc today will only cause a chaos. Before long, Hongkong model of demonstration (or worse) will become everyday sighting. The labour parties will force salary raise every day to an uncontrolled level, then make your industry can't compete in the world market anymore.

So, China needs a better law enforcement, but democracy? nah. At least, not for now.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Always ? No.........The US is basically Europe on vacation in another continent.Europe "vacations" in Australia,New Zeeland,Canada to.Even in some small parts of Africa.

How long until these 'vacation' spots change into something else altogether?

The U.S alone will change demographically into a Mexican and African colony in half a century's time. Some minorities have children while the parents themselves are children. They grow 2 generations in the time space of one and live like leeches. So many leeches.

The world changes my friend but some countries and civilisations can endure the ravages of time much better than others.

 

[Audio]

China in 1949 couldn't produce a bicycle, literacy was 10%, there were still concubines and the average lifespan was 39. This was pretty much the same thing as 1912 when KMT came to power. 27 years later in 1976 literacy was already 70%, average lifespan was over 60 years, women achieved legal equality and China could produce tanks, aircraft, computers, ships and medicine.

I don't know why you think like the penniless Vietnamese refugees.

While that may be......admittedly i wouldn't know about literacy, but on other things you mention you are not being completely forthcoming, namely the external factors in the timeframe you mention.....China was hit by great depression, then Japanese invasion of Manchuria in 1931, then outright invasion in 1937 and by the time you mention 1949 a civil war has just ended.

Not really a good environment to produce literates etc....unlike post 1949 when CCP had lots and lots of external help, predominantly from USSR.

You also neglect to mention the turmoil in 1912 after fall of Qing when the country fell into chaos and regional warlords ruled and that control over the country was established by KMT only by 1927.

Fair and unbiased assesment eh? :lol

China received FDI as early as 1930's.....perhaps if KMT (reunifying the country in 1927) would have won the civil war the embrio of Chinese dream wouldn't have to be put on hold until 1980's and Deng. I would dare wager that is even the more likely of outcomes....

Economic history of China (1912–49) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for your last statement, penniless Vietnamese refugees are better at honest debate (when the talk isn't Vietnam) than you will ever be.

In short, your post is a complete fallacy (like we didn't see that coming), comparing two uncomparables, which are uncomparable by mere examination of external factors involved.

- Mao laid down the foundation for China's industry. Otherwise, where do you think we can build our own H-bomb/satellite/ICBM/nuclear subs? The sacrifice was inevitable, but we did achieve the first step in our goal by laid down the foundation of our industry.

Yes, ofcourse the Russians didn't leave anything behind. Something starting with the word "R" and number "2" in it's name.

- Yes, we bypassing the US guard, since the US initially didn't expect China to become that strong in the future, they viewed us as a good sweatshop to provide them the cheap labor.

Your speculation.

- We didn't owe the foreigners anything, we did gain our industrial might from the foreign investment, but the foreign investors did also gain the huge profit from our cheap labor. Nobody owes each other anything.

So, you say mutual interest, not sugar daddies. Okay.
Note then the hypocrisy of your statement when you mention Europe always needs a sugar daddy while you willfully disregard any mutual interests.

- Deng made a mistake by making a such statement, now Xi Jinping who is more Maoist than Deng is correcting his mistakes.

What a joke.....i can just mention rising inequality and be done with this pathetic argument.

Income inequality now greater in China than in US | University of Michigan News

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

While that may be......admittedly i wouldn't know about literacy, but on other things you mention you are not being completely forthcoming, namely the external factors in the timeframe you mention.....China was hit by great depression, then Japanese invasion of Manchuria in 1931, then outright invasion in 1937 and by the time you mention 1949 a civil war has just ended.

Not really a good environment to produce literates etc....unlike post 1949 when CCP had lots and lots of external help, predominantly from USSR.

You also neglect to mention the turmoil in 1912 after fall of Qing when the country fell into chaos and regional warlords ruled and that control over the country was established by KMT only by 1927.

Fair and unbiased assesment eh? :lol

China received FDI as early as 1930's.....perhaps if KMT (reunifying the country in 1927) would have won the civil war the embrio of Chinese dream wouldn't have to be put on hold until 1980's and Deng. I would dare wager that is even the more likely of outcomes....

Economic history of China (1912–49) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for your last statement, penniless Vietnamese refugees are better at honest debate (when the talk isn't Vietnam) than you will ever be.

In short, your post is a complete fallacy (like we didn't see that coming), comparing two uncomparables, which are uncomparable by mere examination of external factors involved.

Well, KMT cannot unify China even at gunpoint, while CPC can achieve that.

End of story, a weakling and traitorous party like KMT was destined to collapse, and let alone to rule over a united China.

Why keep making those useless assumptions?

Yes, ofcourse the Russians didn't leave anything behind. Something starting with the word "R" and number "2" in it's name.

There is no free meal in the world, and we did request USSR to help us to build the nukes and nuclear subs, but they refused to help us.

But that was a good thing for us, since it made us more independent instead of relying on a sugar daddy.

 

[Audio]

Well, KMT cannot unify China even at gunpoint, while CPC can achieve that.

End of story, a weakling and traitorous party like KMT was destined to collapse, and let alone to rule over a united China.

Why keep making those useless assumption?



There is no free meal in the world, and we did request USSR to help us to build the nukes and nuclear subs, but they refused to help us.

But that was a good thing for us, since it made us more independent instead of relying on a sugar daddy.

Bla bla bla CCP pro, KMT trash, blabla, Russia abandoned us bla bla, China strong!!!!11

Come back when you have something concrete not cheaply paid hot air.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Bla bla bla CCP pro, KMT trash, blabla, Russia abandoned us bla bla, China strong!!!!11

Come back when you have something concrete not cheaply paid hot air.

- If KMT wasn't trash, then why it did get forsaken by the Chinese people? Even there was no CPC, they will still get overthrown by other party.

- Did you learn any history? Sino-Soviet split - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Audio]

- If KMT wasn't trash, then why it did get forsaken by the Chinese people? Even there was no CPC, they will still get overthrown by other party.

- Did you learn any history? Sino-Soviet split - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Forsaken by the Chinese people....does this mean...loosing all major assets and who knows how many men against the Japanese? Which strengthened CCP? Which didn't really fight much in WW2.

Don't teach me history.....ya, Sino-Soviet split, but until then vast amounts of things were received from your communist brothers.