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Westerners who want to destroy our part of the world

Zyxius

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I have been surprised by the number of people on this forum who are cheerleaders of the west and Israel. True alliances are not made with countries who have strong lobbies that seek to dismember your part of the world, to reshape your society, to impose their values on you, to redraw your borders, to instigate any part of your population towards any other part, or try any other imperial experiment on you or your nation whatsoever. In this thread I'm simply going to be collecting opinions and articles of those in the West and Occupied Palestine who preach hatred against us but disguise it in the form of strategic thinking and national security imperatives. They couch it in academic language, but we all know that if a group in our part of the world with an Islamic ideology said the same thing...they'd be called Al Qaeda or some other politically charged name. In the west, these ideas actually gain credence and become policy as can be seen with all these neocon think tanks who preach dangerous and often violent policies against other parts of the world.

Although this is not the purpose of this thread, I do not believe that the US has good intentions towards us and is likely on an imperial adventure in Pakistan. Those who propose deepening relations and strengthening of this alliance...in addition to an alliance with Israel.....these people are like those among our ancestors who may have welcome the British in colonizing us because they agreed with the values and way of life of the British. They have no respect or dignity for their own history and the foundations of their identity. There should be greater awareness of these types of people and what they are saying so the cheerleaders in our part of the world can see for themselves (assuming they even want to), how with friends like these...we dont need enemies.

Ralph Peters is considered an "Expert" in the middle east, intelligence, security and terrorism. He's made appearances on every major media outlet in the US. He is former armed forces and military intel. His opinions are not the ramblings of some random individual, but a reflection of the thinking of a powerful segment of the establishment in the US.

ARMED FORCES JOURNAL - Blood borders - June 2006
Blood borders
How a better Middle East would look
By Ralph Peters

International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.

The most arbitrary and distorted borders in the world are in Africa and the Middle East. Drawn by self-interested Europeans (who have had sufficient trouble defining their own frontiers), Africa’s borders continue to provoke the deaths of millions of local inhabitants. But the unjust borders in the Middle East — to borrow from Churchill — generate more trouble than can be consumed locally.

While the Middle East has far more problems than dysfunctional borders alone — from cultural stagnation through scandalous inequality to deadly religious extremism — the greatest taboo in striving to understand the region’s comprehensive failure isn’t Islam but the awful-but-sacrosanct international boundaries worshipped by our own diplomats.

Of course, no adjustment of borders, however draconian, could make every minority in the Middle East happy. In some instances, ethnic and religious groups live intermingled and have intermarried. Elsewhere, reunions based on blood or belief might not prove quite as joyous as their current proponents expect. The boundaries projected in the maps accompanying this article redress the wrongs suffered by the most significant “cheated” population groups, such as the Kurds, Baluch and Arab Shia, but still fail to account adequately for Middle Eastern Christians, Bahais, Ismailis, Naqshbandis and many another numerically lesser minorities. And one haunting wrong can never be redressed with a reward of territory: the genocide perpetrated against the Armenians by the dying Ottoman Empire.

Yet, for all the injustices the borders re-imagined here leave unaddressed, without such major boundary revisions, we shall never see a more peaceful Middle East.

Even those who abhor the topic of altering borders would be well-served to engage in an exercise that attempts to conceive a fairer, if still imperfect, amendment of national boundaries between the Bosporus and the Indus. Accepting that international statecraft has never developed effective tools — short of war — for readjusting faulty borders, a mental effort to grasp the Middle East’s “organic” frontiers nonetheless helps us understand the extent of the difficulties we face and will continue to face. We are dealing with colossal, man-made deformities that will not stop generating hatred and violence until they are corrected.

As for those who refuse to “think the unthinkable,” declaring that boundaries must not change and that’s that, it pays to remember that boundaries have never stopped changing through the centuries. Borders have never been static, and many frontiers, from Congo through Kosovo to the Caucasus, are changing even now (as ambassadors and special representatives avert their eyes to study the shine on their wingtips).

Oh, and one other dirty little secret from 5,000 years of history: Ethnic cleansing works.

Begin with the border issue most sensitive to American readers: For Israel to have any hope of living in reasonable peace with its neighbors, it will have to return to its pre-1967 borders — with essential local adjustments for legitimate security concerns. But the issue of the territories surrounding Jerusalem, a city stained with thousands of years of blood, may prove intractable beyond our lifetimes. Where all parties have turned their god into a real-estate tycoon, literal turf battles have a tenacity unrivaled by mere greed for oil wealth or ethnic squabbles. So let us set aside this single overstudied issue and turn to those that are studiously ignored.

The most glaring injustice in the notoriously unjust lands between the Balkan Mountains and the Himalayas is the absence of an independent Kurdish state. There are between 27 million and 36 million Kurds living in contiguous regions in the Middle East (the figures are imprecise because no state has ever allowed an honest census). Greater than the population of present-day Iraq, even the lower figure makes the Kurds the world’s largest ethnic group without a state of its own. Worse, Kurds have been oppressed by every government controlling the hills and mountains where they’ve lived since Xenophon’s day.

The U.S. and its coalition partners missed a glorious chance to begin to correct this injustice after Baghdad’s fall. A Frankenstein’s monster of a state sewn together from ill-fitting parts, Iraq should have been divided into three smaller states immediately. We failed from cowardice and lack of vision, bullying Iraq’s Kurds into supporting the new Iraqi government — which they do wistfully as a quid pro quo for our good will. But were a free plebiscite to be held, make no mistake: Nearly 100 percent of Iraq’s Kurds would vote for independence.

As would the long-suffering Kurds of Turkey, who have endured decades of violent military oppression and a decades-long demotion to “mountain Turks” in an effort to eradicate their identity. While the Kurdish plight at Ankara’s hands has eased somewhat over the past decade, the repression recently intensified again and the eastern fifth of Turkey should be viewed as occupied territory. As for the Kurds of Syria and Iran, they, too, would rush to join an independent Kurdistan if they could. The refusal by the world’s legitimate democracies to champion Kurdish independence is a human-rights sin of omission far worse than the clumsy, minor sins of commission that routinely excite our media. And by the way: A Free Kurdistan, stretching from Diyarbakir through Tabriz, would be the most pro-Western state between Bulgaria and Japan.

A just alignment in the region would leave Iraq’s three Sunni-majority provinces as a truncated state that might eventually choose to unify with a Syria that loses its littoral to a Mediterranean-oriented Greater Lebanon: Phoenecia reborn. The Shia south of old Iraq would form the basis of an Arab Shia State rimming much of the Persian Gulf. Jordan would retain its current territory, with some southward expansion at Saudi expense. For its part, the unnatural state of Saudi Arabia would suffer as great a dismantling as Pakistan.

A root cause of the broad stagnation in the Muslim world is the Saudi royal family’s treatment of Mecca and Medina as their fiefdom. With Islam’s holiest shrines under the police-state control of one of the world’s most bigoted and oppressive regimes — a regime that commands vast, unearned oil wealth — the Saudis have been able to project their Wahhabi vision of a disciplinarian, intolerant faith far beyond their borders. The rise of the Saudis to wealth and, consequently, influence has been the worst thing to happen to the Muslim world as a whole since the time of the Prophet, and the worst thing to happen to Arabs since the Ottoman (if not the Mongol) conquest.

While non-Muslims could not effect a change in the control of Islam’s holy cities, imagine how much healthier the Muslim world might become were Mecca and Medina ruled by a rotating council representative of the world’s major Muslim schools and movements in an Islamic Sacred State — a sort of Muslim super-Vatican — where the future of a great faith might be debated rather than merely decreed. True justice — which we might not like — would also give Saudi Arabia’s coastal oil fields to the Shia Arabs who populate that subregion, while a southeastern quadrant would go to Yemen. Confined to a rump Saudi Homelands Independent Territory around Riyadh, the House of Saud would be capable of far less mischief toward Islam and the world.

Iran, a state with madcap boundaries, would lose a great deal of territory to Unified Azerbaijan, Free Kurdistan, the Arab Shia State and Free Baluchistan, but would gain the provinces around Herat in today’s Afghanistan — a region with a historical and linguistic affinity for Persia. Iran would, in effect, become an ethnic Persian state again, with the most difficult question being whether or not it should keep the port of Bandar Abbas or surrender it to the Arab Shia State.

What Afghanistan would lose to Persia in the west, it would gain in the east, as Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier tribes would be reunited with their Afghan brethren (the point of this exercise is not to draw maps as we would like them but as local populations would prefer them). Pakistan, another unnatural state, would also lose its Baluch territory to Free Baluchistan. The remaining “natural” Pakistan would lie entirely east of the Indus, except for a westward spur near Karachi.

The city-states of the United Arab Emirates would have a mixed fate — as they probably will in reality. Some might be incorporated in the Arab Shia State ringing much of the Persian Gulf (a state more likely to evolve as a counterbalance to, rather than an ally of, Persian Iran). Since all puritanical cultures are hypocritical, Dubai, of necessity, would be allowed to retain its playground status for rich debauchees. Kuwait would remain within its current borders, as would Oman.

In each case, this hypothetical redrawing of boundaries reflects ethnic affinities and religious communalism — in some cases, both. Of course, if we could wave a magic wand and amend the borders under discussion, we would certainly prefer to do so selectively. Yet, studying the revised map, in contrast to the map illustrating today’s boundaries, offers some sense of the great wrongs borders drawn by Frenchmen and Englishmen in the 20th century did to a region struggling to emerge from the humiliations and defeats of the 19th century.

Correcting borders to reflect the will of the people may be impossible. For now. But given time — and the inevitable attendant bloodshed — new and natural borders will emerge. Babylon has fallen more than once.

Meanwhile, our men and women in uniform will continue to fight for security from terrorism, for the prospect of democracy and for access to oil supplies in a region that is destined to fight itself. The current human divisions and forced unions between Ankara and Karachi, taken together with the region’s self-inflicted woes, form as perfect a breeding ground for religious extremism, a culture of blame and the recruitment of terrorists as anyone could design. Where men and women look ruefully at their borders, they look enthusiastically for enemies.

From the world’s oversupply of terrorists to its paucity of energy supplies, the current deformations of the Middle East promise a worsening, not an improving, situation. In a region where only the worst aspects of nationalism ever took hold and where the most debased aspects of religion threaten to dominate a disappointed faith, the U.S., its allies and, above all, our armed forces can look for crises without end. While Iraq may provide a counterexample of hope — if we do not quit its soil prematurely — the rest of this vast region offers worsening problems on almost every front.

If the borders of the greater Middle East cannot be amended to reflect the natural ties of blood and faith, we may take it as an article of faith that a portion of the bloodshed in the region will continue to be our own.

• • •

WHO WINS, WHO LOSES

Winners —

Afghanistan

Arab Shia State

Armenia

Azerbaijan

Free Baluchistan

Free Kurdistan

Iran

Islamic Sacred State

Jordan

Lebanon

Yemen

•

Losers —

Afghanistan

Iran

Iraq

Israel

Kuwait

Pakistan

Qatar

Saudi Arabia

Syria

Turkey

United Arab Emirates

West Bank
 
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I don't think Afghanistan is a winner in this.

But Iran is a BIG winner and this is a stupid article by a stupid man. You know my views on secularism as compared to Islamism but this article really enraged me.
 
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Stupid man, doesn't he know that countries like America and Poland and Beligum aren't "natural"?
In that case, Poland should be split between Russia and Germany, Lithuania and Armenia should go to Russia to restore Russia as it used to be (Russia has historically always had a huge Jewish population and either Lithuania and Poland should be merged with much of Western Russia and Eastern Germany to form a Jewish state or they should both go to Russia). Jews were always present in huge numbers in Eastern Germany, Western Russia and Poland and Lithuania.
Belgium should give its French part to France and become a Flemmish state. Switzerland should be divided between France and Western Germany and Austria should merge with them as well. Serbia, The Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania and Hungary should also be joined to them. (This will of course, make France and New Germany huge, but thats how Mr Peters is thinking as well)
America should be split into three or four countries and part of it should go to Mexico.
Spain and Portugal can be merged.
 
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I have been surprised by the number of people on this forum who are cheerleaders of the west and Israel.

People are entitled to have different views to you Zyxius and as this forum in my opinion encourages debate we can't all share the same beliefs nor should we have to.

It allows for more fun to have a few devils advocates :chilli:

As for the thread I disagree with you that the west is wholly against Pakistan. They are against elements that threaten their safety ie the likes of Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
 
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Well, to be honest, they did play a huge part in creating the present boundaries, and not too many middle-easterners were happy with the arbitrary lines.

Indian state borders also suffered the same problems....the Brits cleverly created states where two or more opposing groups were always at loggerheads, thus keeping them busy among themselves.

Luckily, after independence, many of these borders were redrawn so that states had some semblance of cohesion and unity. But even today some states have problems, which is why we created the new states of Uttarakhand, Jharkhand and Chattisgarh.

Unfortunately, it is much more difficult to redraw international borders than state boundaries, because each country has an army, and nobody is willing to compromise.
 
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Here is another one.

Why Not Redraw Afghanistan's Borders – or Even Break It Up? - International Herald Tribune

Why Not Redraw Afghanistan's Borders – or Even Break It Up?
By Philip Bowring
Published: SATURDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2001

NEW DELHI: According to the English Civil War rhyme, "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again." Given the agreement this week in Bonn, it may be overly pessimistic to question whether Afghanistan can be glued back together. That effort must be made.

However, we also need to think the unthinkable on two counts. First, is Afghanistan, as now constituted, necessary? Second, why is a redrawing of national boundaries considered impossible, even though so many are unnatural creations of former British, Ottoman, Habsburg, Russian and other empires?

The past 30 years has seen the fragmentation of several states, usually along ethnic lines. Many people rejoiced at the break up of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. The international community accepted the breaking away of Bangladesh and Eritrea, and fathered the escape of East Timor from Indonesia. But it has failed to get to grips with the irrational borders which are the root of many ethnic and inter-state conflicts.

There is at least one major conflict which can, if at all, only be resolved by an internationally accepted redrawing of a boundary — to allow Israel to keep part, however small, of its 1967 conquests. So might it be better to admit the wisdom of redrawing other boundaries — in southeastern Europe, in the Caucasus and Central Asia — before they too become subject to de factor changes by right of conquest, or causes of more ethnic cleansing. The 1945 redrawing of European maps and consequent migration of populations was painful but has contributed immeasurably to central Europe's subsequent tranquillity.

Modern Afghanistan is not a natural construct. It is the rump of a Pashtun kingdom created in the 18th century from bits of declining Persian, Mogul and Uzbek entities by the Durrani clan, from whom the former king Zahir Shah is descended. It once extended east of the Indus River. The Durranis lost half their Pashtun heartland to the British and hence to Pakistan, but thanks to Afghanistan being seen as a useful buffer state between the British and Russians they were able to hold their non-Pashtun territories north of the Hindu Kush. Memories of their brutal suppression of Uzbek and other uprisings have been an important ingredient in post-1989 tribal bloodletting.
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With the Russian retreat, a buffer state is no longer needed. Successor states such as Tajikistan and Uzbekistan need fewer distractions: Stalin's cunning map drawing ensured that each allegedly autonomous central Asian republic contained a large minority of a rival ethnic group.

If we look now at central Asia as a whole, the dismemberment of Afghanistan is not without historical precedent or justification. Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan could absorb the land of their kin in the north and Iran take the western fringe.

The biggest of all issues would be: to which state would the Pashtuns themselves belong? A truncated, mostly Pashtun Afghanistan would be one option. Another would be to join Pakistan. India would oppose the idea of an enlarged Pakistan but in practice a Pakistan in which Pashtuns had more influence and which looked as much west as east might be less a problem for India than today's Punjab-dominated Pakistan.

The other alternative would be a further truncation of Pakistan itself. The idea of Pashtunistan, uniting the Pashtuns on both sides of the border, has existed since before the creation of Pakistan in 1947. The Afghan state has never accepted the Durand Line, the British-drawn modern border. Pakistan's role in the creation and destruction of the Taliban has left the Pashtuns weak and divided. Their position in any future Kabul government has been undermined by the dominant role of Afghan Tajiks and Uzbeks in the current war. Their response could be a revival of a cross-border Pashtun nationalism.

In reality, redrawing of maps is not so simple, because of religious as well as linguistic divides. For example, the Hazaras of central Afghanistan are Mongol by race, speak a form of Persian but unlike their Tajik neighbors are Shiite Muslims, not Sunni Muslims.

It would be preferable for ethnic differences to be overcome so that a rebuilt Afghanistan can emerge as the "Switzerland of Asia," as the tourist guides used to describe it. But unless the sense of Afghan identity becomes a lot stronger, what once was a buffer state will remain a location for ethnic-based proxy wars. In that case most Afghanis would be better off without an Afghanistan.

For the time being, the state will be on a Western-devised life support system. If intensive care fails, it would be better to consider negotiating peaceful dismemberment. The borders set by compromises between Russian and British imperial needs are a poor basis for 21st century statecraft. They will remain a source of ethnic conflict when the Taliban's manic interlude has become just a bad dream
 
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this is one from Australia.

Henry Thornton - Rearranging the map of the Middle East

Reshaping the Middle East - Part 1 Date 18/06/2006
Member rating 4.3/5
‘A smaller Iran, as a true home for the Persians, is preferable to the terrible mess we now have’
By Sir Wellington Boot Email / Print
Click here to find out more

Henry…While recently reading an interesting Persian site, I saw an article suggesting that the many Azeris who live in Iran should secede and re-join their tribal brothers in Azerbaijan. That is, take the two current Iranian provinces of East and West Azerbaijan and join them to the existent country of Azerbaijan, governed from Baku.

‘A smaller Iran, as a true home for the Persians, is preferable to the terrible mess we now have’. This is, I suspect, the true voice of the growing tribalism that is re-emerging throughout the world. What a good thing, too.

At the beginning of these thoughts we should realize that the current 200 odd countries in the world is not some numerical fact set in stone and brought down from Mount Sinai by Moses. If 400 countries in the world were more conducive to peace and prosperity, then let it be. A second basic thought is to accept that the current Middle East set of country arrangements is not working; the vast mass of endlessly impoverished people in these countries (mainly muslims) have no hope of betterment under the present arrangements The quality of your readership understands that the current borders were basically established by Sykes and Picot after WW1, to suit the purposes of Britain and France. We are nearly 100 years on and these arrangements are now useless. Perhaps some new arrangements can be set up. The Map and its original presentation, is here.

Let us start at the top right hand corner of the map: Turkey.

Most of the map was the Turkish Ottoman Empire. In 1914 the stupid Sultan supported the equally stupid Kaiser and that was that. Sykes and Picot left Turkey with only Anatolia, but also millions of Kurds. The Kurds were promised a state but never got it. There are now about 25 million Kurds all packed into the region of eastern Turkey, northern Iraq and north west Iran. Commonsense (that rarest of diplomatic qualities) will tell you that the ‘le moment de les kurds’ has arrived; a hundred years after it was promised. The great problem is to convince the Turks to let them (and the land they are on) go peacefully. The Turkish Army is full of ‘Blood and Thunder’ generals who will take some considerable convincing. Turkey has to be offered something to accept letting the Kurds go. Membership of the European Union is not viable, for the obvious reason that Turks are not Europeans. What can Turkey be offered? Leave that until Part 3. As a grace note, the new map should ensure that Mt. Ararat is in Armenia; 1915 and all that.

Moving east we come to the new state of Kurdistan.

This state is made up of lands from Turkey, Iraq and Iran. Of those three, it is the Iranians who are the best educated, most sensible and, by a mile, the most politically sophisticated. (The antics of President Achmadinejad only move the jumpy Westerners; the groups really running Iran are not under his control, neither is the country.)

Iraq is finished. Put together by the extraordinary Gertrude Bell, writer, explorer, spy and probable genius, she had the confidence of the British Government and Establishment of the early 1920s to the degree where she basically created the new Iraq. I have seen a wonderful photo of Gertrude Bell, Lawrence of Arabia and Winston Churchill all sitting on camels in front of the Sphinx during the Cairo Conference of 1922. They were creating nations and worlds. (Those were the days, Henry!)

As much as I despise the incompetent George Bush, it is not his pointless destruction of a perfectly good American Army in Iraq that has brought this country to its end. It started dying after the fall of the Hashemite Kings in the 1950s. The excrescent Saddam merely served the purpose of keeping Iraq artificially alive until the clownish Bush intervened.

The three groups in Iraq, Shia, Sunni muslim and Kurds all hate each other with black furies that can never be assuaged; divorce is the only option to avoid a civil war with a biblical level of casualties. The Kurds know exactly what they want and they will get it. This solves one third of the ‘Iraq Problem’.

Back to the map and Iran.

Iran also loses its province at the bottom right hand part of the country; the province of Sistan ve Baluch. This goes into the new country of Baluchistan. However, Iran also gains land. The western part of Afghanistan is culturally, linguistically, historically and emotionally more connected to Iran than to eastern Afghanistan. This area plus the city of Herat goes into the new Iran. This helps create an Iran with fewer internal stresses. It also projects the country further into the area of the Caspian Oil Fields…the stage for the next serious rounds of ‘The Great Game’. Iranians would love this development as they have the very superior political skills to do well in the ‘Game’.

Moving further east, Afghanistan moves its eastern border to the Indus River, the natural boundary. Pakistan loses its Baluchi provinces to the new Baluchistan. They are a dead weight in Pakistan, as are the primitive sunni muslims around the North West Frontier, of Bengal Lancers, and Khyber Pass fame. These primitives are of the same poor stock as the rest of the eastern Afghanis (as well as having about 3 million refugee Afghanis currently living there.). With these new borders Afghanistan gains a better border with China. With some minimal negotiating skill it should not be too difficult to get oil pipelines from the Middle East to go through (the new) Iran and Afghanistan into China.

It is in Australia’s national interest for such an arrangement, given that China will soon be our biggest customer. We vitally need China to have all the energy she needs. Direct pipelines, protected from a distance by humourless Chinese generals, are much preferable to moving oil on tankers through the waters of South East Asia protected by an uncomfortably gigantic Chinese Navy run by humourless admirals. Such pipelines are a major source of revenue for the countries they cross.

A Pakistan freed from many of the worst of the muslim primitives (all unloaded into Afghanistan) could actually start to make some of the progress that they desperately need. This new arrangement would strengthen the secularist Pakistanis. The only reason that Pakistan is not making progress is because the dead weight of dumb Islam holds them back. Without this incubus, Pakistan would start moving ahead like India.

Turning West on the map: Baluchistan.

Never likely to compete with Bali for the tourist dollar, Baluchistan would need a lot of western help. ‘Close your ports to the Chinese Navy, sunshine, and you can have it’.

Under the current situation China is getting port facilities in Gwadar, courtesy of the Pakistani administration. This eventually means Chinese naval activity in the Indian Ocean…up and down the Western Australian coast? No, thank you. Australia and India have the only two navies that need show any permanent interest in this Ocean. We emphatically do not need some future naval showdown in the Indian Ocean between the Americans and the Chinese.

Baluchistan would find a soul brother in Afghanistan and could be a profitable conduit for a gas pipeline from Oman to China.

We now end up back in Iraq, with two thirds of their problem to be solved.

Going back to the top of the Persian Gulf we enter the eye of the hurricane. The term ‘Persian’ should always be used in reference to the Gulf: it is the traditional term; the Iranians insist on it and will break off any deals which don’t use that term; it encourages a more ‘Persian’ outlook on the part of many Iranians. Handled properly, Iran can be brought back from the edge toward which they are traveling because of two main factors: gross (and continuing) Western misbehavior in Iran over the past 50 years and the dangerous mysteries of Shia religious messianism. The people of Iran/Persia are traditionally pro Western. We must stop our relentless policies of driving them away; we must help them to gain ‘their place in the sun’, for our sake as well as theirs. If Australia had a sensible, non canine government, it could grasp some commercial opportunities in this situation. Non uranium opportunities, of course.

Much of the oil and gas in Iran comes from Khuzestan province, which abuts Iraq. Most of the provincial locals are Shia Arabs, not Shia Persians. The map makes a mistake in going too far along the Persian Gulf in giving land to the new Shia Arab State, (Sumeria?) This state is centered on the city of Basra. It should include the southern Iraqi provinces, full of Shia and full of oil. Looking at the map one sees two ‘arms’ of this state stretching along the east and west of the Persian Gulf; these arms engulf Kuwait. Mistake.

The Shia State should stop at the most western point of Kuwait, and go no further south. Kuwait is about 25% Shia. If it was surrounded by a Shia State we would, eventually, have a coup and its attempted absorption by the Shia state. As Saddam now knows, it is an implacable Western policy that Kuwait is not absorbed by any neighbour. We have had wars over this policy, so there is no need for more wars. The eastern arm of the Shia State should stay with Iran, as it also includes major oil and gas supplies. Even children in kindergarten learn that they must share the sandwiches on the plate.

The establishment of the Shia State gives the Arab Shia self government for the first time in 1400 years. They will be chuffed, poor buggers. It also solves the second of the three problems of Iraq. The establishment of Baghdad as a separate City State is a very innovative and imaginative suggestion. The opportunities presented by such a City State will be mentioned in Part 3.

Looking at the map one sees a place called ‘Sunni Iraq’. This is a pointless construct; no oil, not much water, no natural leading city, a desert wasteland, classic bandit territory. Scrap this and put it into an expanded Syria. Although Syria is majority Sunni muslim, it is governed by the Alawites, who are essentially a Shiite heretical group, who amount to about 12 % of the Syrian population. The absorption of ‘Sunni Iraq’ will not be a problem for Syria. There is not much chance of the Alawites being overthrown as they have the support of everyone who counts in the Middle East and beyond. The majority of the people in Syria are definitely not in that category.

The map makes another unnecessary change by, bizarrely, cutting off Syria’s coast and access to the Mediterranean. Countries do not give up access to Oceans. Leave the coastal arrangements as they currently stand in relation to Lebanon and Syria.

Israel and Palestine. The heart sinks and the fingers freeze over the key board. What HASN’T been written about this epic?

Two points: First, neither of the ruling groups in Israel or Palestine is really looking for Peace, each is still struggling for Victory. However, the majority of the people of Israel and Palestine are now content (not happy, but resigned) to live side by side. Not overwhelming majorities in either place, but majorities. These majority views are of minimal account to the ruling groups in both Israel and Palestine. (See Syrian people above.) Second, the concrete ‘Great Wall of Israel’ winding its way through the lives and property of both Israelis and Palestinians will emerge as the final border between the two countries. The Palestinians will get the slums of East Jerusalem, but the (glorious) Old City will stay with Israel. This will come about because neither the Jewish religious establishment nor the Vatican will agree to have their sacred sites in the hands of orthodox religious Muslims. Politicians in Europe and America will not relish the prospect of having to publicly defend handing these sites over to Hamas and the fanatical warriors of ‘Islam Uber Alles’. The fate of the Buddha Statue in Islamic Afghanistan is still fresh in western minds. Orthodox religious Muslims are simply not trusted by Jewish or Christian leaders and people with the irreplaceable historical cultural sites of Judeao-Christian civilization. I concur with this judgement.

Crossing over the River Jordan (music please maestro!) we come to a key development in moving the Middle East (and the forlorn, impoverished muslim masses) forward.

Jordan is run by the Hashemite clan. The current King, Abdullah, is the smartest son of the very smart, late King Hussein, of beloved memory. Both Hussein and Abdullah are descendents of the Muslim Prophet Mohammed. In the Islamic world this is upper case, BIG TIME. No one denies this historical fact and it gives religious credibility without equal to the Hashemite clan. (In passing it should be noted that the King of Morocco is also a descendent of Mohammed.) The Hashemites were championed by Lawrence of Arabia in the post WW1 carve up of the Ottoman Empire. Colonel Lawrence thought they were the better choice to run Arabia (and its oil fields) over the Saud family. The Sauds were championed by Gertrude Bell, and they eventually won the support of 10 Downing Street. That was the beginning of the problems.

There is a persistent historical account of the Saud family which details them as actually Jews from Baghdad who, in the 1720s, fell in with the founders of Wahhabi Islam in the Arabian Peninsula. It will cost you your life to say this in Saudi Arabia. Even in the wider Islamic world this is only whispered, but, personally, I suspect it to be true. The idea of the muslim sites of Mecca and Medina in the hands of ‘Marrano (Jewish) muslims’ like the Saud Family is the stuff of novels. (Operator, I would like to place a person to person call to Mr. Dan Brown…) This fact (yes?/no?) is a serious matter for muslims and lies there, like a poisonous black snake, waiting to be used in the now necessary overthrow of Saudi Arabia and its division between Jordan and (an increasingly pro Western)Yemen.

The current strife between Islam and the West is financed by Wahhabi muslims using Saudi oil money. Without this financing there would be no infrastructure of camps, Taliban warriors, promotion of turmoil and treason among western resident muslims, payments to imams and control of muslim community associations in the West, (and Australia) money for travels and meetings, purchase of equipment, purchase of propaganda to muddy the waters, no Bali bombing. The Koran has always made the terrorism permissible; now the oil money makes the terrorism possible.

The trade off with the Saud Family is that the Wahhabi establishment in Arabia will support the continuation of the (Marrano? Jewish?) Saud rule in Arabia and the Saud Family will look away as billions of dollars are spent attacking the Judeao-Christian West. America goes along with this arrangement because of oil deals with the Sauds. To remind young readers, the 1973 oil crisis included an arab demand for a 100% increase in the price paid to them for oil…from $3 dollars a barrel to $6 dollars!

At $70 a barrel and rising this arrangement is now obviously collapsing and the Wahhabis are clearly out of control. (People who think that foreign policy is a subset of social welfare policy should not read the rest of this paragraph). The only long term solution to the Wahhabi problem is a ‘final solution’. This code word can be carried out by the Bedouin warriors of the Hashemite King. There are many desert nooks and crannies in the Arabian Peninsula where CNN does not go. Clearly the Wahhabis have caused (and are continuing to cause) far too much trouble to International Islam and the rest of us; just like the Albigensian Catholics (‘the Cathars’) caused far too much trouble to the wider Catholic world in the early 1200s. Few muslims today would shed a tear if the trouble making Wahhabis quickly joined their trouble making Cathar predecessors in Paradise.

The idea of some sort of ‘Islamic Sacred State’ is a total non starter. It would be a casus belli on an almost daily basis. The annual Haj to Mecca would see an annual attempted coup. Hand over Mecca and Medina and all the Arabian oil to the physical control of a descendent of the Prophet…Allah u Akbar.

The key is Turkey: The Turkish ruling group are the political descendents of the great Kemal Ataturk (the Turkish general who slapped our little white bottoms at Gallipoli. Gallipoli is Turkey’s Kokoda.) He was a non believing muslim who wanted a Western Turkey. He secularised Turkey to a broad degree; however the unspoken prayer of this group was always to be accepted as Europeans. The rise of the European Union gave them their opportunity and they have pursued entry relentlessly.

Turkey will be refused entry to the EU. When this final refusal comes (because they are not Christian Europeans, they are muslim Turks), the Secular Agenda in Turkey will experience a defining existential crisis. To salvage this serious situation (and turn the refusal of the EU into an opportunity for the people of the Middle East) the European Union must, with American help, propose for the area covered by this map, a ‘Middle East Economic Community’, (MEEC). This is an organization below the level of political union which exists now in Europe; rather, it is a union which concentrates on economics, as did the original EEC, the European Economic Community. In short, a resurrection of the economic unity that existed under the Ottoman Empire, without the political control by the Turks.

The starting point for this is the endemic and peace threatening poverty in which almost all the muslim peoples in this area live. This poverty must be eradicated both for the sake of the people there and for the safety of the West. Straight after the end on WW1 intelligent leaders in the West saw that Communism had to be opposed by raising the standard of living of the entire West, to cut off any appeal that Communism might have on people living in grinding poverty. That program of steadily rising living standards paid off, especially after 1945. We now need to do the same for the muslims in the Middle East, lest their poverty result in (nuclear?) destructive messianic Islam or tidal waves of muslim economic refugees into Europe. This is not identical to the Marshall Plan, because the finances for such a ‘Middle East Economic Community’ are indigenous…oil and gas.

This will not be easy because there are seriously powerful Western interests who would oppose such a scheme, principally the arms merchants (2nd biggest business in the world?) and the oil companies who want oil prices to keep rising, rather than settle into a sensible band of $40-$50 per barrel. This project to raise Middle East muslim standards of living would require the same level of grim determination that the Western bourgeoisie showed in gutting the power of the aristocrats and Kings in the18th and 19th centuries. Today’s ‘aristocrats and kings’ are the arms merchants, oil companies and illicit drug traders. All three put their own personal interests (like true aristocrats) ahead of the long term interest of the West. Why should the core of Western civilization …the bourgeoisie, the middle class, the mittelstand… keep silent while the current ‘aristocrats’ endanger everything we have gained? (Yes, Operator, I can hold on for Madame La Guillotine…)

A perfect administrative centre for this MEEC is Baghdad. This city is a famous venue, of almost mythic standing in the soul of the Arab Nation. (Intelligent readers can surmise how upset and vengeful the average Arab becomes when he sees this city ruthlessly bombed by Outsiders). If Baghdad was a city state, its only real business would be the running of the MEEC. Your average Baghdadi is educated and secularist (in a muslim sense); these people could make a success of administering such a program. A city without other interests like armies and oppression would be able to concentrate on Tomorrow, and not exhaust itself trying to justify a terrible Today with appeals to Yesterday.

To prevent backsliding, the MEEC would have to include Christian Armenia and Jewish Israel. Both are indigenous to the Middle East in a way that Turkey is not indigenous to Europe. Shia and Sunni Islam would both have to, finally, adopt a vital element of ‘human modernity’, that is, ‘live and let live’.

The oil and gas revenues are paid to the Middle East by their customers in the Modern World. Modern World standards of accounting (not HIH standards) would have to be introduced, with a substantial percentage of the revenue going to Baghdad directly, to pay for the broadly determined and strictly economic programs to raise living standards.

None of this can be done with Sharia Economics. Crushing this poisonous snake will be the first job of the statesmen from Europe and America (when they eventually emerge; not one is on the horizon as we speak). Progress is only possible with Euro/American laws on banking, property, starting a business, commercial contracts, private property, labour laws, real human rights, freedom of speech and religion (or lack of it), right to privacy and a personal life (young men and boys of a gay-ish persuasions are still, in 2006, being publicly hanged in the streets of Iran, and murdered by ‘police’ in Iraq).

The MEEC would require a Parliament, elected by all, similar to the European Parliament. However, this MEEC Parliament (sitting in one of Saddam’s palaces?) would only deal with economic projects. Leave each country in the MEEC to have its own laws and customs. By having free movement between the MEEC states, like the EU, people who don’t like Law X, Y or Z in their locality, will be able to move to more congenial climes. Needless to say, the death penalty will have to go. Full Stop. End of Story. (If this could be done, maybe an effort could then be made to end the death penalty in truly bestial and savage jurisdictions like Texas).

I consider that this type of project is the only project which could have any real success on a long term basis. The Middle East has had 60 odd years of ceaseless turmoil and bloodshed; the internet is relentlessly breaking down the isolation which was always the sine qua non for the success of backward Islam; millions of muslims are stranded in Europe, unable to move forward into societies which do not want them, and unable to return to deathly poverty back home. Something has to be done to break the ongoing fall of all of these people, if not for their sake, then for ours.

A project like this, requiring the rearrangement of frontiers to satisfy the more pressing needs of the local peoples, could attract the wider support of the ordinary people once they saw that it was serious about fighting poverty. It is clearly in the immediate cultural, social and political interests of the West for the (never-ending) ‘Middle East Crisis’ to start winding down and basic prosperity for ordinary Arabs to start spreading out.

Not every group currently in a saddle today will have a place in the MEEC. Wahhabi Islam, like German Fascism, has absolutely no future at all. It would have to go, root and branch. The Saudi ‘Royal’ Family, parasites sans pareil, would also need to join their ‘cousins’ the Romanovs and Bourbons at fashionable European watering holes (or, perhaps, return to their synagogues in Baghdad); other ruling groups in the area would have to take their luck at the polls. Most likely these others would all hang on, as the reformers in those families would, at last, come to power. The reign of the imams would have to come to an end. The establishment (and enforcement) of the modern principle of ‘live and let live’ would kill off the worst of the imams. The howls of the losers could only be drowned out if there were obvious improvements in everyone’s standard of living. Backward social norms would see the immediate exodus of the skilled manpower from the backward state, making economic development difficult. A few elections would solve that problem.

The stoking of the ‘growth furnace’ would stop the endless outrush from the Middle East and would also promote the return of many now abroad. (Speaking personally, the Middle East is a damn fine place to live if one can get a few ‘necessaries’ in order. Many Arabs whom I met outside the Middle East would love to return, ‘if it was possible’ as they all said. The West suits us. Arabs are not Westerners, by and large. It is always a strain for them to live here.)

This sketchy outline is presented as a stimulus to thinking on a matter which touches Australia. Many other factors could be mentioned in this account, but space constrains us all. The current international paradigm of ‘thinking’ on the Middle East is obviously utterly bankrupt. Neither Europe nor America has anyone in elected office remotely resembling a statesman. The American Presidency and the administration of that Great Republic has degenerated to moronic and criminal levels; the seven leading European leaders could all get work in a production of ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’. It will be essential to have real leadership on this matter, 1945 standard leadership. The finances are available, the terrible, easily repeatable, histories are there as warnings, and the internet steadily, day by day, destroys walls of separation between people, exposing what we have and they don’t. Can this really just go on, without, some day there being some truly awful collapse?

All that is needed is leadership.

Sir Wellington Boot
Menzies Mews
Ben Chifley Drive
Prosperity NSW.
 
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Yeah, Balochistan would need Western help! They'd take all the natural gas and leave!
Stop posting these, Zyxius, you don't know how angry I get when I read these.
I've already shown a simple way to ethnically divide Europe and America, how about that?
 
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Yeah, Balochistan would need Western help! They'd take all the natural gas and leave!
Stop posting these, Zyxius, you don't know how angry I get when I read these.
I've already shown a simple way to ethnically divide Europe and America, how about that?

Dude I would not worry about it. if you search the internet you would probably find a few more articles like this. If you look, its easy to find crap like this.
 
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Zyxius,

I disagree with the suggestion that any of us blindly trust the West, especially the US, when it comes to their involvement in the region.

We have a relationship that serves our limited common interests to certain degrees, and where those interests are diverging we see some tension currently.

Many of us do not like the fact that the US is pushing Pakistan to act in ways that could cause internal destabilization, and we see the hypocrisy in that the US, to avoid similar destabilization in Afghanistan, has not done much at all when it comes to taking the GoA to task over corruption and involvement in the drug and weapons trade, or cutting down on the poppy crop.

Many of us place Pakistan over all else - we are proud of Pakistan's clandestine drive to achieve a nuclear deterrent - lie, steal, imitate whatever.

We had a goal and we accomplished it.

In the same vein, if ti serves Pakistan's interests in the near, medium or long term to cooperate with the US/West, so be it. So long as our interests are served to some extent, no harm. The West has done exactly the same thing countless times to any number of nations, including Pakistan.

I think that perhaps you are confusing pragmatism with 'blind support' - but nonetheless you have a right to disagree, and hold to your opinion, and this forum is intended for people with diverging opinions to 'have at it', but with civility.
 
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Zyxius,

On the 'border realignment' of various states as argued by the various authors quoted here - I had an interesting encounter with a bunch of Western ex military people and some Indians on another forum, on a thread over the Ralph Peters 'realignment'.

There was the usual , "Pakistan created the taliban, Pakistan is an unnatural state coming apart at the seams blah blah blah", and I asked, "you know, why exactly has no one on this forum discussed the possibility of dividing Afghanistan, with the different ethnic regions being merged their ethnic cousins - Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, etc. and the Pashtun be given the same option, to stay independent or join Pakistan."

My goodness the vitriol that poured forth. Anything but that, instead Pakistan should be broken up and some of its various components merged with Afghanistan.

I pointed out that Pakistan was far more stable than Afghanistan, far stronger than Afghanistan, with much stronger (relatively) institutions, social structures and ethnic harmony, and no history of the sort of ethnic bloodshed and chaos that Afghanistan has seen, so how on earth would it make sense to break apart a relatively stable country, instead of one that had the history and present of Afghanistan?

No answers there of course, except more vitriol and misdirection towards Pakistan's proliferation, lack of cooperation on the WoT blah blah blah.

My option creates stronger, larger and possibly more stable (greater ethnic homogeneity) Muslim states - Peter's creates smaller and weaker Muslim states (with some ethnically homogeneous), and breaks apart one of the strongest and largest Muslim states.

Really makes one wonder doesn't it.
 
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^^^Well duh. Don't expect Indians to support the notion of a larger Pakistan. We obviously have no intention of upsetting the regional balance.

As far as the west is concerned, again, nobody wants to see a non-western nuclear power grow larger and more powerful.

I don't see what's so surprising about it. Afghanistan is in western hands, and therfore the west would be quite happy to let it expand its territory.
 
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So it appears that the opposition of the Pakistani members is not to the idea of the redrawing of the map. It is because this plan takes away land from Pakistan.

If Pakistan gains land on the other hand and other countries of the ME get divided, people are fine with it. Thats interesting. So it is not about Muslim brotherhood but about national interest.

A quote from a previous post:

Moving further east, Afghanistan moves its eastern border to the Indus River, the natural boundary. Pakistan loses its Baluchi provinces to the new Baluchistan. They are a dead weight in Pakistan, as are the primitive sunni muslims around the North West Frontier, of Bengal Lancers, and Khyber Pass fame. These primitives are of the same poor stock as the rest of the eastern Afghanis (as well as having about 3 million refugee Afghanis currently living there.). With these new borders Afghanistan gains a better border with China. With some minimal negotiating skill it should not be too difficult to get oil pipelines from the Middle East to go through (the new) Iran and Afghanistan into China.

It is in Australia’s national interest for such an arrangement, given that China will soon be our biggest customer. We vitally need China to have all the energy she needs. Direct pipelines, protected from a distance by humourless Chinese generals, are much preferable to moving oil on tankers through the waters of South East Asia protected by an uncomfortably gigantic Chinese Navy run by humourless admirals. Such pipelines are a major source of revenue for the countries they cross.

A Pakistan freed from many of the worst of the muslim primitives (all unloaded into Afghanistan) could actually start to make some of the progress that they desperately need. This new arrangement would strengthen the secularist Pakistanis. The only reason that Pakistan is not making progress is because the dead weight of dumb Islam holds them back. Without this incubus, Pakistan would start moving ahead like India.

Surprising that it evoked no response at all from any member.

What are the thoughts about the "primitives"? if you get more of them, isn't there a chance that the internal problems will multiply?
 
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But no suprise that it caught your attention?

Primitives are people too. And Pakistanis - room for everyone, all kinds, types, ethnicites.
 
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But no suprise that it caught your attention?

Primitives are people too. And Pakistanis - room for everyone, all kinds, types, ethnicites.

It did, because it was so shocking.

Anyway this is not my opinion and not even posted by me or any Indian for that matter. It did catch my attention while reading that interesting article.

You are right, a country has (or at least should have) room for all kinds of people and ethnicities in a spirit of plurality.

But no one including the person who posted it (and supposedly read it before posting) tried to point out its absurdity!
 
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