War of 1971 - Bangladesh

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Source?

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20001216/windows/main2.htm

In every conflict there comes a turning point. In the 1971 war against Pakistan, the Battle of Longewala in the western sector was one such point. Not only was the Pak attack dented, but it was also forced to withdraw when India launched its own offensive. Longewala was, thus, a decisive battle, says James Hattar

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Syama Ayas Indian source quoting somebody else is NOT 'international sources'. In Chamb India lost lot of ground. These were minor probing attacks. If you read the CIA report it is abundantly clear that PA had adopted a defensive posture.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

@Syama Ayas Indian source quoting somebody else is NOT 'international sources'. In Chamb India lost lot of ground. These were minor probing attacks.

I referred an International observer, i remember reading James Hattar being associated to the British military.

If you read the CIA report it is abundantly clear that PA had adopted a defensive posture.

I am aware.
That begs the question why Pak chose defensive posture unlike that of 1965?

Point 8 in the CIA document mentions Pak has sufficient resources to inflict damage to India in the West but chose not to

 

[Indus Pakistan]

`

That begs the question why Pak chose defensive posture unlike that of 1965?

Poor leadership - a historical pattern which I think still exists.

CIA document mentions Pak has sufficient resources to inflict damage to India in the West but chose not to

Sufficient only at tactical level. Take in toto who had the advantage on the Western Front? India of course.

 

[Psychic]

with all due respect i have mentioned it above
battle of chamb
batlle of khemkharan
battle of longewala
mungabao railway station
everything was happening inside Indian territory
not in Pakistan
on the contrary on the eastern front
everything was happening on Pakistani territory

Except Chamb, PA didn't succeed anywhere, no matter wheather anything happened inside Indian territory or Pakistani. And are you by some chance mixing the events of 65 with 71?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

How in baghwans name did PA have advantage on the Western Front?

Pakistan had strategic reserves(which they never used due to command failure at HQ) and more armour in the west.But they wasted all their armour first at longewala trying to move in without air support ,and then got taken by surprise at sakargarh where indians attacked despite being outnumbered and prevented a pakistani attack towards pathankot,PA lost lots of tanks at basantar area.

 

[ebrahym]

Except Chamb, PA didn't succeed anywhere, no matter wheather anything happened inside Indian territory or Pakistani. And are you by some chance mixing the events of 65 with 71?

i doesnt matter if we succeeded or not
as deep invasion has never been Pakistan's doctrine
it has always been offensive defense
capturing enemy territory earlier in the war and thus keeping collateral damage on their side(which we succesfully did on western front in 1971) and wait for UN as Pakistan cannot capture so much territory neither can it sustain a long war i.e we have no plans for finishing the war

would love you to point out the events i mentioned so i can realize my mistake and correct myself
the only thing that went wrong on the western front was naval war as Pakistan actually did not pay any attention on the protection of our coast as we once again "unanimously" assumed India wont attack their as we did in 1965

Pakistan had strategic reserves(which they never used due to command failure at HQ) and more armour in the west.But they wasted all their armour first at longewala trying to move in without air support ,and then got taken by surprise at sakargarh where indians attacked despite being outnumbered and prevented a pakistani attack towards pathankot,PA lost lots of tanks at basantar area.

certainly right
but the thing is Pakistan's intentions has to be taken into account
Main intention was securing Dhaka
hence we did not tried much harder on western front as longewala and python,trident are evident
all of them were not India's success but Pakistan's failure(metaphorically)
all in all 1971 was an all out Indian victory and the fact that Pakistan was doing quite well on western front was buried under the fall of dacca

about armor i mean wasting all armour is hard
we do wasted like 25% of our Armour but most of Armour or reserve Army was never used not due to collapse of command but because of fight among the command which actually is the collapse of command.

 

[Psychic]

would love you to point out the events i mentioned so i can realize my mistake and correct myself
the only thing that went wrong on the western front was naval war as Pakistan actually did not pay any attention on the protection of our coast as we once again "unanimously" assumed India wont attack their as we did in 1965

Monaboa, khemkarn were captured in 1965, not in 1971.

We could have done a lot better on the western front in 1971 but the criminal behavior of the top brass was the obstacle in our path.
Take the example of Longewalla. When the operation was planned, ACM Rahim Khan personally assured the Brig commander that his jets will be providing air cover however the on the night when the hostilities commenced, the brigadier was informed that the PAF won't be providing air cover. What happened afterwards was a disaster, our tanks with external fuel stores were sitting ducks in the open desert.
In Shakargarh, our div commander utilized his armour like a squardon commander would. His strategy was questionable.

The PAF had decided to fight it's own private war.

i doesnt matter if we succeeded or not
as deep invasion has never been Pakistan's doctrine
it has always been offensive defense
capturing enemy territory earlier in the war and thus keeping collateral damage on their side(which we succesfully did on western front in 1971) and wait for UN as Pakistan cannot capture so much territory neither can it sustain a long war i.e we have no plans for finishing the war

Our military failed to implement that doctrine.
Minus the Chamb sector where we succeeded thanks to the brilliant leadership of Eftikhar Janjua.

 

[ebrahym]

Monaboa, khemkarn were captured in 1965, not in 1971.

We could have done a lot better on the western front in 1971 but the criminal behavior of the top brass was the obstacle in our path.
Take the example of Longewalla. When the operation was planned, ACM Rahim Khan personally assured the Brig commander that his jets will be providing air cover however the on the night when the hostilities commenced, the brigadier was informed that the PAF won't be providing air cover. What happened afterwards was a disaster, our tanks with external fuel stores were sitting ducks in the open desert.
In Shakargarh, our div commander utilized his armour like a squardon commander would. His strategy was questionable.

The PAF had decided to fight it's own private war.

thnx for pointing out

ACM had said that in such a short notice it was near impossible to provide cover
but the fact is Airforce was so embeded in 1965 they thought they alone can kill the enemy


rest as you say is indeed true
but realize the fact that most of the war took place on enemy territory(succesful or not) that is the main objective of offensive defence and in most cases it was achieved
the rest about the top brass as you stated is more than true and unfortunately still resides in the top command
again thnx for pointing out khemkharan happened in 1965 but mungabao railway station i m not sure happened in 1965

 

[Shinigami]

`
Poor leadership - a historical pattern which I think still exists.

Sufficient only at tactical level. Take in toto who had the advantage on the Western Front? India of course.

why have you not mentioned about anything in the west? where indian forces were outnumbered from 2-1 to 25-1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Basantar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chamb
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala

 

[Psychic]

^^^

PA captured Chamb, didn't it? And the number of attacking forces was equal to the number of defenders in Chamb sector. The only advantage Pak had was in armour which was offset by the fact that the terrain was excellent for mounting a strong layered defence. And there was no element of surprise with us either.

The problem was that we had only one Eftikhar in our army.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

As many already pointed out, what stopped pakistan from smashing indias defenses in west and occupying even delhi? There wasnt any distqnce or force inimbalance issue in western front now, was there?

This question is almost blasphemy to the Pakistanis. India diverted 10 division of troops out of 25 division for the liberation of East Pakistan.In the western sector,Pakistan had numerical superiority in both men and materials.Anyone would expect them to overrun the Indian position in the west and capture at least Kashmir which they covet so much.They got an golden opportunity when India diverted much of it's men and materials in the east.But those ''most handsome and martial race soldier'' in the western sector repeated the same pathetic cowardice like their brethren in the East.Rather than capturing Indian land, they lost 15,000 sq. km land in west Pakistan,their Karachi port was left in ruins and India altered LOC in Kashmir at easy.

Later in Simla agreement they got back 90,000 PoW and most of the land by begging to India, but India retained around 1100 sq. km strategically important height,pass in Kashmir LoC.Pakistan was forced to acknowledge the Kashmir dispute as the bilateral one thus permanently damaging their position on Kashmir issue.Not to mention the outcome of the east when coward Niazi surrendered without any whimper and 55 percent people of the Pakistan said goodbye to the Jinnah's Pakistan forever.Is there anything bigger disaster and humiliation, a nation can undergo at the hands of supposedly 'arch enemy' than this? I would say,this was the poetic justice served by the almighty for their racism,hatred,exploitation and genocide against innocent Bengali people for long 24 years.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Elhamdulillah!!!!!! IMO, it's a divine favor that East Pak was lost!!!! That made Pak "hungry". Result is the strategic balances. Imagine if East Pak remained but no nukes - both wings would have been lost!!! There is Sher in every Khair and Khair in every Sher!!!! Now, Pak is getting ready for its ultimate goals which will shape the next 300 years at the global level!!! As for BD folks, the least said the better - they have caught up with their destiny!!!!

This question is almost blasphemy to the Pakistanis. India diverted 10 division of troops out of 25 division for the liberation of East Pakistan.In the western sector,Pakistan had numerical superiority in both men and materials.Anyone would expect them to overrun the Indian position in the west and capture at least Kashmir which they covet so much.They got an golden opportunity when India diverted much of it's men and materials in the east.But those ''most handsome and martial race soldier'' in the western sector repeated the same pathetic cowardice like their brethren in the East.Rather than capturing Indian land, they lost 15,000 sq. km land in west Pakistan,their Karachi port was left in ruins and India altered LOC in Kashmir at easy.

Later in Simla agreement they got back 90,000 PoW and most of the land by begging to India, but India retained around 1100 sq. km strategically important height,pass in Kashmir LoC.Pakistan was forced to acknowledge the Kashmir dispute as the bilateral one thus permanently damaging their position on Kashmir issue.Not to mention the outcome of the east when coward Niazi surrendered without any whimper and 55 percent people of the Pakistan said goodbye to the Iqbal,Jinnah's Pakistan forever.Is there anything bigger disaster and humiliation, a nation can undergo at the hands of supposedly 'arch enemy' than this? I would say,this was the poetic justice served by the almighty for their racism,hatred,exploitation and genocide against innocent Bengali people for long 24 years.

What's about BD folks???? Are they 100% OK vis-à-vis India????? Last time I checked they still have Merkez-i Yakin and Saya-i Huda-i Zul Jelal in their national anthem. Is BD army is still saluting to a FIRE????

 

[Homo Sapiens]

What's about BD folks???? Are they 100% OK vis-à-vis India?????

Very few country in this world have zero problem with neighbors.Many Turkish people says,Turkey is surrounded by enemy from all side.I think there are some truth in their claim.As a neighbor,India is much more preferable than a country like Pakistan.Ask your Afghan muslim brothers.Our problem with India are minor one and it will be solved with times.We have already solved some problem with India.Rest will follow.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Very few country in this world have zero problem with neighbors.Many Turkish people says,Turkey is surrounded by enemy from all side.I think there are some truth in their claim.As a neighbor,India is much more preferable than a country like Pakistan.Ask your Afghan muslim brothers.Our problem with India are minor one and it will be solved with times.We have already solved some problem with India.Rest will follow.We no longer believe in two nation theory and evil Pakistani ideology which propagate the bu!!shit of perpetual Hindu-Muslim enmity.

Then live happily without water for ever!!!! And, of course under the tutelage of RAW also!!!!