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War of 1971 - Bangladesh

@Viva India which area of west pakistan was retained by India after 71? I heard this first time.
Strategic peaks of Kargil including the Tiger Hill


In October 1947, following the announcement of Kashmir’s accession to India, the Gilgit Scouts, a predominantly Muslim force raised by the British for internal security, revolted against the Dogras, and in a series of daring actions in1948 captured Kargil, Drass, Zoji La Pass and Skardu. However, in November 1948, Zoji La Pass and Kargil were recaptured by the Indians while the Kargil heights remained with the Gilgit Scouts.

During the Rann of Kutch conflict, these heights were captured by the Indians for the first time on May 17, 1965, for use as a bargaining counter in the negotiations. As a result of the agreement reached, the heights were returned to Pakistan in June 1965. In the first week of August 1965, Operation Gibraltar was launched. One of the areas used by the infiltrating force was the Kargil heights. To block these routes, the Indians captured the heights for the second time in the third week of August 1965. But after the signing of the Tashkent Agreement, the heights were once again returned to Pakistan.

On the outbreak of war on the western front on December 3, 1971, the Indians captured the heights for the third time on December 9, 1971. This time, however, they retained the heights in line with the Shimla Agreement under which the violable Cease Fire Line (CFL), created in December 1948 on cessation of hostilities in Kashmir, was converted into an inviolable Line of Control (LoC), on the basis of actual possession of territory at the time of the ceasefire in December 1971. When the Indians captured the heights on three different occasions, the Pakistani force that was overwhelmed, consisted mostly of lightly armed, inadequately equipped Karakoram and Gilgit Scouts, both paramilitary outfits.
 
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Even in the western front where PA had advantage it was mauled at sakargarh and longewala - perhaps this is difficult to accept.By 1971 IA was a different beast than the club of 50s and 60s( during nehru's paranoia and suppression of the army by the civilian bureacracy).IAF achieved air superiority and IN burned karachi and basically enforced blockade.All 3 arms were successful.
 
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blockade was in east pakistan all happened in east pakistan
battle of longewala?
a war that never happened
(according to ur general)
also
Battle of Chamb - Wikipedia

If you are referring to Atma Singh, his only point was that Longewala was the achievement of the IAF, much more than that of the Indian Army, which did not turn up till much later.

I personally knew Wing Commander Suresh, who was one of the four Hawker Hunter pilots that savaged Pakistani armour. His descriptions of the strafing were terse but forceful.
 
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All these reasons were well known. That is why the strategy "defence of east lies in west" was adopted. Now imagine UK shared border with russia. When russia invaded turkey, British invade russia and occupy Moscow. Russia has no other option but to pull back from Turkey and surrender, even seizing land to UK that they wanted. This is what Pakistan was hoping and it didn't happen. Why? Infact, greatest victory of India in 1971 is in western front where we not only held you guys off, even started creep into your territory...
 
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Longewala was the achievement of the IAF
it certainly was sir
also note that longewala and most of other fronts in thw war against wetern Pakistan was inside Indian territory with only a few exceptions
Pakistan was doing quite fine on western front

but all that matters is Pakistan lost the war
I dont consider that Pakistan lost any territory as if you read my statement above East Pakistan was as gud as gone in 1951
but Surrendering to India was way better than surrendering to Bengalis
it is also considered that we will never have parity with India after 1971 which is utterly wrong
pakistan is still being seen as antagonist to India and india's woth in the west is not only but mainly due to china

nevertheless i would like to discuss what is happening and what might happen rather than what had happened
you won - move on why are you stck in it we have way more wars to fight
 
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it certainly was sir
also note that longewala and most of other fronts in thw war against wetern Pakistan was inside Indian territory with only a few exceptions
Pakistan was doing quite fine on western front

In fact, if you take Eftekhar's breakthrough in Chhamb, that is a fair assessment, although I hate to admit it; there were good generals in charge of the Indian Army, and it was disappointing that they were not able to make better progress.

but all that matters is Pakistan lost the war
I dont consider that Pakistan lost any territory as if you read my statement above East Pakistan was as gud as gone in 1951
but Surrendering to India was way better than surrendering to Bengalis

Absolutely! We were very close to the military, to both Arora and Jacob, and they were terrified that Pakistan Army POWs would be ill-treated. People were jumping around trying to send small detachments to take the PA troops into their own custody; in some cases, they were asked to retain their arms for common safety for a day or two, till higher level formations got to the spot. There were actually about a dozen cases when the IA got there too late, but most of the luckless ones were Razakars.

it is also considered that we will never have parity with India after 1971 which is utterly wrong
pakistan is still being seen as antagonist to India and india's woth in the west is not only but mainly due to china

Sorry, I didn't quite get that. It isn't just a question of totting up tanks,or artillery pieces, or infantry battalions; if war-fighting were quite so simple, I'd just settle down with some Lanchester equations and be done with the whole sorry stuff.

nevertheless i would like to discuss what is happening and what might happen rather than what had happened
you won - move on why are you stck in it we have way more wars to fight

I sincerely hope we have no more wars to fight!
 
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Fault of policy makers of west pakistan. military regime vs civilian. On 17 April when mujib approached speech wasn't call of war next day when zia telecast it via radio then civil war encouraged. On 25th march what happened we know that. That was the 50% reason for the guerrilla war. And what US and USSR did we know that very well.
 
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Pakistan was doing quite fine on western front
how?

Even in the western front where PA had advantage it was mauled at sakargarh and longewala - perhaps this is difficult to accept.By 1971 IA was a different beast than the club of 50s and 60s( during nehru's paranoia and suppression of the army by the civilian bureacracy).IAF achieved air superiority and IN burned karachi and basically enforced blockade.All 3 arms were successful.
In the Western front, the Indian army indeed fared better than Pak army, however the IAF did not achieve air superiority in essence, although it did a bit better than what it was able to do in 65.
Karachi burned and PN took a lot of mauling, agreed.
 
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with all due respect i have mentioned it above
battle of chamb
batlle of khemkharan
battle of longewala
mungabao railway station
everything was happening inside Indian territory
not in Pakistan
on the contrary on the eastern front
everything was happening on Pakistani territory
 
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Even in the western front where PA had advantage it was mauled at sakargarh and longewala - perhaps this is difficult to accept.By 1971 IA was a different beast than the club of 50s and 60s( during nehru's paranoia and suppression of the army by the civilian bureacracy).IAF achieved air superiority and IN burned karachi and basically enforced blockade.All 3 arms were successful.
International observers consider Longewala turning point of the war.

Everyone knew India would overun East Pakistan.

However Pakistani to meekly give up so easily on the Western front despite "vigorous" offensives in 1965 convinced them Indian victory.

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000628772.pdf

14ugh34.jpg
 
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International observers consider Longewala turning point of the war.
Source?

Everyone knew India would overun East Pakistan.
First Indian to concede the reality. USA could not have held out let alone Pakistan.

However Pakistani to meekly give up so easily on the Western front despite "vigorous" offensives in 1965 convinced them Indian victory.
No, not meekly. As the report you cited Pakistan was in defensive mode with few probing attacks. The over all policy appears have been to stay on defensive.

Even in the western front where PA had advantage
How in baghwans name did PA have advantage on the Western Front?
 
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